Warranty denied for transfer case - aftermarket wheels

[desertfox73]

UPDATE 7/27:
Spoke with Lori at BMWNA, and they are in fact denying the warranty based on non-OEM wheels and tires.

If you are running non-OEM wheels and tires, just know that BMW can and might void warranty on powertrain-related issues, and that even slight variances (.3% and .4%) will cause transfer case failure.

I've updated the diameter measurements below to reflect a more accurate (not rounded) figure.

I'm not sure how they explain winter OEM setups (which have larger variances than I had), but it seems BMW is essentially using mods to deny warranty.

Good luck!

UPDATE 7/21:
Finally received a call from the Service Manager. When I asked him how wheels and tires that were virtually identical to OEM could cause the transfer case issue, he said "it wasn't the wheels and tires, it was aftermarket coding". I told him all of the paperwork in my invoice said "wheels and tires", no reference to any coding at all. He said "Sorry, that was a mistake and shouldn't have been on there." I had to tell him that's not how this works - that when someone calls bullshit on your explanation, you don't get a do-over to explain it some other way. I've contacted an attorney and have also asked the service manager for any documentation that shows exactly what caused the transfer case failure and actual proof of how they know. So far these guys don't seem to have a clue about anything, other than trying to make sure they don't have to pay for a shitty transfer case.


ORIGINAL POST:
Couple of weeks ago, when I decided to put my car back to stock to sell, I started feeling a jerking when driving - pretty much all the time. No codes lit up, so I couldn't tell what the issue was.

Took the car to BMW 5 days ago, they saw it had aftermarket wheels/tires, and called me to say they were asked to treat the issue as a non-warranty item, but would move ahead with a full test to diagnose the issue. I was told by the SA that he was "an enthusiast" and that if anyone was working on my car who would be mod-friendly, it was him, and he would advocate for me with BMW. I told him to go ahead with the diagnosis, he said he'd call me the next day.

5 days later (today), I get a text from BMW service, which reads:

"1. car feel like a misfire, need to inspect spark plugs and coils along with transfer case. car has incorrect wheel and tire size no warranty.

2. found transfer case causing shuttering, misfire feel. car does have aftermarket wheels and tires of different size than factory."

Service bill to replace the transfer case is $8,928 - warranty denied.

Couple things about this:

-kind of lame that the SA says he'll call me back with the diagnosis, then I don't hear from him for 5 days until getting a text message with an $8900 repair bill. WTF.

-my car has almost always had those wheels/tires, and has been in for regular service before (including about 2 weeks before this issue arose). Not that anyone is obligated to do so, I would have appreciated my SA giving me a heads up that BMW was cracking down on mods. True, they don't HAVE to do that, but I believe that part of building a relationship with an SA would include some looking out for their customers.

Now for the math. My non-OEM wheels are 22" vossen HF2 with Toyo Proxes tires. Here's how my setup differs from stock:

OEM
Front diameter: 28.85"

Rear diameter: 28.68"

VOSSEN/TOYO
Front diameter: 28.97" (.12" greater)

Rear diameter: 28.59" (.09" less)

Out of curiosity, I ran a comparison assuming had stock wheels and put on winter tires (Yokohama BluEarth, run by a few on this forum):

Front diameter 295/30/21: 29.3" (.4" greater than stock)
Rpm: 710 (-11 from stock)

Rear diameter 325/35/21: 28.9" (.2" greater than stock)
Rpm: 718 (-7 from stock)

My point being...they are denying my warranty claim since they are saying my wheels are not the same size as stock. However, even when using a stock wheel/non-OEM winter tire set up, there is also a similar difference in size...so for those running non-OEM winter tires, it appears BMW might do this for you as well.

I left a couple messages for the SA to call me back, and I plan to fight this. Based on my understanding, they will have to prove beyond a doubt that my wheels/tires caused the problem (I.e. they have to prove cause, not just correlation or even the possibility of cause.)

I realize there are risks when modifying cars, but this seems excessively punitive. Especially when, over the last 20 years, I've purchased close to $450k in automobiles from BMW (cars and bikes). Seems a little poor.

[BleuDawg]

Sounds pretty simple - hire a lawyer and take them to court.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by BleuDawg

Sounds pretty simple - hire a lawyer and take them to court.

I'll challenge with the SA first (Mr. "Mod Friendly"), then escalate through BMW. If that doesn't work, I'll consider other options.

Im curious to see their proof.

[F85MTuNED]

Completely unacceptable in my opinion they should do better than that especially with you being a long term customer. I hope things work out for you.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

The electromagnetic actuator used to engage the clutch packs in transfer case used in the F85's ATC45L is EXTREMELY sensitive to wear. What happens is over time the clutch packs wear/fluid degradation cause it to become out of calibration. This manifest itself in set torque point request failure codes (these are unique codes and will not trigger a check engine light and only show up a scanner that can read BMW codes) the computer is requesting a certain value from the transfer case and when it doesn't receive it, resets the motor over and over in an endless cycle...feels like a trailer tugging or engine miss.

Most of the transfer cases can be fixed simply by changing the transfer case oil and loading up ISTA to perform the transfer case recalibration procedure. Recommend you do this yourself or take to good Indy shop to have it done (I would not trust your SA, they would rather bill you for 9k then 300 dollars...)

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

The electromagnetic actuator used to engage the clutch packs in transfer case used in the F85's ATC45L is EXTREMELY sensitive to wear. What happens is over time the clutch packs wear/fluid degradation cause it to become out of calibration. This manifest itself in set torque point request failure codes (these are unique codes and will not trigger a check engine light and only show up a scanner that can read BMW codes) the computer is requesting a certain value from the transfer case and when it doesn't receive it, resets the motor over and over in an endless cycle...feels like a trailer tugging or engine miss.

Most of the transfer cases can be fixed simply by changing the transfer case oil and loading up ISTA to perform the transfer case recalibration procedure. Recommend you do this yourself or take to good Indy shop to have it done (I would not trust your SA, they would rather bill you for 9k then 300 dollars...)

Thanks - very helpful. If BMW doesn't perform the work under warranty then I am planning on having my other shop do it (they would always be cheaper for non-warranty work). I've shared your post with them, appreciate it!

I guess I also wonder why I don't hear of transfer case failures left and right on these boards. Tons of guys run winter setups (or even summer tire setups) that aren't the same size as what comes from the factory.

[quick]

BMW has dead set protocols to follow and will not deviate from that. My E70 X5M had misfire and ticking sound and BMW told me it was plugs and when asked about the sound, I was told normal. It had BMW original plugs, changed about 15,000 miles ago. Estimate $1175

I came home, changed the plugs to OEM but not BMW (both made by BOSCH, same part number one with M logo and one without) and went back

They told me unless I switched to BMW OEM plugs they couldn't diagnose the problem further. I specifically wanted them to check the injectors on both visits but they declined.

Anyway, they switched the plugs ( $875) and came back and told me it was indeed injectors

X5M has factory Injector issues and has warranty for 12 years/120,000 miles so injector work was covered but not the plugs

I had to reverse the charges and yada yada.

Moral of the story, BMW will try to shaft you where and whenever they can.

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

Thanks - very helpful. If BMW doesn't perform the work under warranty then I am planning on having my other shop do it (they would always be cheaper for non-warranty work). I've shared your post with them, appreciate it!

I guess I also wonder why I don't hear of transfer case failures left and right on these boards. Tons of guys run winter setups (or even summer tire setups) that aren't the same size as what comes from the factory.

I posted my xfer case failure a while back. Exact same symptom as yours. Thought it was a misfire. Happened around 36k miles. Cause was fluid loss, or so they said. Replaced under warranty. Haven't seen many others so they seem fairly tough. Perhaps time will tell.

I have a Dinan Stage 1.

Personally, I am always reticent about adding too much more power as driveline's ability to handle always concerns me. For example, the transmission has certain torque handling limits. 750nm for our models, which is 553lb/ft. I suspect xfer case has similar design limits. Do t know what they are, however.

Tires different size doesn't seem like a valid reason to me unless different diameters front to back, which I don't think is the case with yours.

Are my BMW winter wheel setups the exact same diameter of the stock summer setup?

Best of luck.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by quick

BMW has dead set protocols to follow and will not deviate from that. My E70 X5M had misfire and ticking sound and BMW told me it was plugs and when asked about the sound, I was told normal. It had BMW original plugs, changed about 15,000 miles ago. Estimate $1175

I came home, changed the plugs to OEM but not BMW (both made by BOSCH, same part number one with M logo and one without) and went back

They told me unless I switched to BMW OEM plugs they couldn't diagnose the problem further. I specifically wanted them to check the injectors on both visits but they declined.

Anyway, they switched the plugs ( $875) and came back and told me it was indeed injectors

X5M has factory Injector issues and has warranty for 12 years/120,000 miles so injector work was covered but not the plugs

I had to reverse the charges and yada yada.

Moral of the story, BMW will try to shaft you where and whenever they can.

Great long term business model. Seems like they're doing all they can to drive the enthusiast crowd away from their cars.

I've also found my limited knowledge of some things to be more than BMW techs. When i got my M4 last year i asked the tech where the artificial engine sound module was located, and he told me BMW doesn't use artificial engine noise in the cabin.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by DgjoX6M2016

I posted my xfer case failure a while back. Exact same symptom as yours. Thought it was a misfire. Happened around 36k miles. Cause was fluid loss, or so they said. Replaced under warranty. Haven't seen many others so they seem fairly tough. Perhaps time will tell.

I have a Dinan Stage 1.

Personally, I am always reticent about adding too much more power as driveline's ability to handle always concerns me. For example, the transmission has certain torque handling limits. 750nm for our models, which is 553lb/ft. I suspect xfer case has similar design limits. Do t know what they are, however.

Tires different size doesn't seem like a valid reason to me unless different diameters front to back, which I don't think is the case with yours.

Are my BMW winter wheel setups the exact same diameter of the stock summer setup?

Best of luck.

Not sure about your winter set up - but the stock measurements on my original post may help you figure that out. In any case, I'd be cautious that bmw could try to use the "non-OEM" tire excuse if your diameters aren't the same as what rolled off the showroom floor

Quick note: my car has 9400 miles.

No way a transfer case should fail that fast. I don't drive the car hard at all, still have the original tires i put on it (over a year ago).

[KCTiger]

That's some BS. As you might recall, I have 22s. The SA commented that he liked my wheels. Prob just trying to be nice but mentioning that so you know the SA noticed I wasn't running OEM wheels/tires.

Took my car in bc of a leak. Transfer case was replaced under warranty. I still have the paperwork. If you want me to scan it and email it to you, PM me your email address.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by KCTiger

Wait are you 325 in the rear or 335? I thought most of us on 22s were 335 in the rear.

Yes 335.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by KCTiger

That's some BS. As you might recall, I have 22s with the same size Toyos. The SA commented that he liked my wheels. Prob just trying to be nice but mentioning that so you know the SA noticed I wasn't running OEM wheels/tires.

Took my car in bc of a leak. Transfer case was replaced under warranty. I still have the paperwork. If you want me to scan it and email it to you, PM me your email address.

Thanks man. Pmd you. Really appreciate it.

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

Not sure about your winter set up - but the stock measurements on my original post may help you figure that out. In any case, I'd be cautious that bmw could try to use the "non-OEM" tire excuse if your diameters aren't the same as what rolled off the showroom floor

Quick note: my car has 9400 miles.

No way a transfer case should fail that fast. I don't drive the car hard at all, still have the original tires i put on it (over a year ago).

I totally agree with you 9400 miles is nothing , they owe you transfer case ! No way that thing should be shot, that need to do the right thing and take care of this after the loyalty you have shown them. Good luck man !

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

Not sure about your winter set up - but the stock measurements on my original post may help you figure that out. In any case, I'd be cautious that bmw could try to use the "non-OEM" tire excuse if your diameters aren't the same as what rolled off the showroom floor

Quick note: my car has 9400 miles.

No way a transfer case should fail that fast. I don't drive the car hard at all, still have the original tires i put on it (over a year ago).

My winter setup are BMW OEM. My point being, are OEM winters the exact same as the OEM summers? If they aren't, it suggests the logic behind the dealership answer you received is flawed.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by DgjoX6M2016

My winter setup are BMW OEM. My point being, are OEM winters the exact same as the OEM summers? If they aren't, it suggests the logic behind the dealership answer you received is flawed.

What sizes are your OEM winter wheels/tires?

And I agree, my thoughts exactly. If they're voiding the warranty because of non-factory sizing (which they are), then anything that doesn't match factory sizing should therefore void the warranty (including other OEM). Otherwise, they're arbitrarily voiding warranty because the wheels/tires are non-OEM, which they can't do.

[desertfox73]

Just found one member who is running OEM winter setup, 285/40/20 P Zero all around. The diameter of that wheel/tire is exactly the same as the diameter of mine. That would mean that BMW is denying the warranty claim not based on sizing, but the fact that my wheels/tires are non-OEM, which to my understanding is against the law.

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

Just found one member who is running OEM winter setup, 285/40/20 P Zero all around. The diameter of that wheel/tire is exactly the same as the diameter of mine. That would mean that BMW is denying the warranty claim not based on sizing, but the fact that my wheels/tires are non-OEM, which to my understanding is against the law.

Exactly. The BMW OEM winter size sounds right as mine are square 285s on 20s.... I just forget the aspect ratio. So that pretty much blows up their logic based on diameter. Good luck! Sucks you have to battle for a xfer case on a 10k mile vehicle.

[EuroCarFan]

Dang, that sucks. Seems like you have a pretty good case to challenge the ruling based on the Magnusson-Moss Act.

I had been lucky with my dealer. My E60 M5 has FBOs, from headers to tune, wheels, full suspension etc.. and they honored every issue that came up under the original warranty and even when I had an Easy Care aftermarket warranty. They even once told me, after having to upgrade the software in my car, that they might have wiped out my performance tune so I should go put it back. LOL

Hope you get this resolved.

[Herofmine]

Originally Posted by EuroCarFan

Dang, that sucks. Seems like you have a pretty good case to challenge the ruling based on the Magnusson-Moss Act.

I had been lucky with my dealer. My E60 M5 has FBOs, from headers to tune, wheels, full suspension etc.. and they honored every issue that came up under the original warranty and even when I had an Easy Care aftermarket warranty. They even once told me, after having to upgrade the software in my car, that they might have wiped out my performance tune so I should go put it back. LOL

Hope you get this resolved.

That's crazy back in NY/NJ I used to take my M5 with catless downpipes and tune with 700whp to warranty work lol they took care of all my concerns only thing is manager used to tell me that i had to let them know what kind of modifications i have before head, always took care of them with nice tips

[MiamiFan13]

Went thru this with my SRT8 Cherokee.

I had my truck in for a water pump replacement, under warranty. While in for that repair, a regional FCA rep was onsite that day and noticed my aftermarket tire/wheel setup and, on the spot, voided my remaining warranty on my transfer case!!! I went nuts on everyone there. Cops were called...it was UGLY.

SRT engineers were adamant that as long as there is less than 3% deviation, there should be no problems...and I was well within that. Despite that , FCA still voided me out. Luckily my T-case is still fine 5+ yrs later.

OP, I feel bad you are going thru this. However, your aftermarket setup does have your fronts and rears spinning much farther apart compared to stock. Im not too familiar with BMWs AWD system, but I do know that my Jeep's system is sensitive to diameter changes outside of factory spec. i had used a set of snows one year that were a tad bit beyond the 3% variance and whenever i was in any sharp turn, i could hear the t-case groaning. i kept them on for that season, about 3,000 miles of driving, and once i went back to my current setup everything went back to normal. No apparant damage done and its been 3yrs, 20k miles smooth sailin.

If you havent been hearing or feelind any grinding/moaning, then id be shocked your setup is the cause of any damage. Good luck to you!!!

[F85MTuNED]

Seems alike bimmer is about to start giving everyone hell..