Test drove F15 a couple of times, mostly loved it

[ADGrant]

To give some context to my comments my current car is a 2011 X5 5.0 with comfort seats and active steering. It doesn't have keyless start or entry unlike the car it replaced (a 135 vert). I bought it slightly used so I didn't decide the options.

Unlike some/many of the posters over on the E70 sub forum I like the looks of the F15. I also love the interior. I didn't like the popup Nav screen style in other newer BMWs (particularly the F30) but the size of the screen in the F15 and the style of the dash look fantastic. I liked seeing Nav directions in the instrument cluster, but not so much on the HUD (I have progressive lenses which didn't work so well with the HUD). In either case they free up the huge Nav screen to show the map with traffic data. The way the new Nav shows traffic data is fantastic particularly compared with the older iDrive in my car. I find the Navigation abilities of BMW Nav systems to be somewhat questionable and mostly know where I am going anyway. For most of my journeys around the NYC area I dial in the destination anyway because I can't get traffic data without it and in the New York area, traffic is always a problem.

One of the cars I drove had the standard seats. They are very comfortable but have no side bolsters and I slid around a bit. I was hoping to save the $1,300 but looks like I will need the comfort seats if I buy the new X5. Another area I was hoping to save on was gas. I was interested in the 6 cylinder engine because the 8 in my current X5 really likes the gas. For the most part I found the 6 fine until I had to merge on to a highway. It just didn't have the feeling of unlimited power which I love and which helps when another driver is trying to close the gap I am merging into. Looks like I might have to budget for a V8 too.

Unfortunately, this is where i get to the elephant in the room. When I traded my 135 because I needed a larger car, I thought the X5 was too large. However, after I drove the F10 5 series, I decided that it offered no advantages over the X5 for driving excitement. The reason of course was the steering. I test drove the F30 later to see if they had fixed the steering but no, it was still awful. I am sorry to say that I find the F15 steering equally awful. The sport setting just makes it slightly less awful. The active steering in my current X5 doesn't compare to my old 135 but it feels like sport car steering compared to the F15.

If I end up keeping my current car and getting an extended warranty, it will be because of the steering. I liked everything else about the car (except how much is costs to get TopView functionality).

[1230vani]

Did you test Msport? Steering is way better setup (even with AS option) compared to non Msport.

Originally Posted by ADGrant

To give some context to my comments my current car is a 2011 X5 5.0 with comfort seats and active steering. It doesn't have keyless start or entry unlike the car it replaced (a 135 vert). I bought it slightly used so I didn't decide the options.

Unlike some/many of the posters over on the E70 sub forum I like the looks of the F15. I also love the interior. I didn't like the popup Nav screen style in other newer BMWs (particularly the F30) but the size of the screen in the F15 and the style of the dash look fantastic. I liked seeing Nav directions in the instrument cluster, but not so much on the HUD (I have progressive lenses which didn't work so well with the HUD). In either case they free up the huge Nav screen to show the map with traffic data. The way the new Nav shows traffic data is fantastic particularly compared with the older iDrive in my car. I find the Navigation abilities of BMW Nav systems to be somewhat questionable and mostly know where I am going anyway. For most of my journeys around the NYC area I dial in the destination anyway because I can't get traffic data without it and in the New York area, traffic is always a problem.

One of the cars I drove had the standard seats. They are very comfortable but have no side bolsters and I slid around a bit. I was hoping to save the $1,300 but looks like I will need the comfort seats if I buy the new X5. Another area I was hoping to save on was gas. I was interested in the 6 cylinder engine because the 8 in my current X5 really likes the gas. For the most part I found the 6 fine until I had to merge on to a highway. It just didn't have the feeling of unlimited power which I love and which helps when another driver is trying to close the gap I am merging into. Looks like I might have to budget for a V8 too.

Unfortunately, this is where i get to the elephant in the room. When I traded my 135 because I needed a larger car, I thought the X5 was too large. However, after I drove the F10 5 series, I decided that it offered no advantages over the X5 for driving excitement. The reason of course was the steering. I test drove the F30 later to see if they had fixed the steering but no, it was still awful. I am sorry to say that I find the F15 steering equally awful. The sport setting just makes it slightly less awful. The active steering in my current X5 doesn't compare to my old 135 but it feels like sport car steering compared to the F15.

If I end up keeping my current car and getting an extended warranty, it will be because of the steering. I liked everything else about the car (except how much is costs to get TopView functionality).

[BMWMN1971]

+1 for MSport. If you have the settings on Sport or Sport+ the steerings is way stiffer than regular settings and gives a very nice ride.

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by BMWMN1971

+1 for MSport. If you have the settings on Sport or Sport+ the steerings is way stiffer than regular settings and gives a very nice ride.

I tried sport, no msport on the demo car. It made the steering heavier but didn't improve the feedback.

[Brian55]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

I tried sport, no msport on the demo car. It made the steering heavier but didn't improve the feedback.

Welcome to the world of electric steering. I sure miss the older generation feel that way, but you do get used to the new style and grow to like it more. At least that was my experience with my F30 M sport, and I look forward to it on my X5 30d on order.

[Galion]

Originally Posted by Brian55

Welcome to the world of electric steering. I sure miss the older generation feel that way, but you do get used to the new style and grow to like it more. At least that was my experience with my F30 M sport, and I look forward to it on my X5 30d on order.

Yes, welcome to the future, you have to go with the flow or I you will be driving outdated cars with obsolete technology.
Even Porsches 911 once praised for their fantastic steering feel now have electric steerings.
Said that I dont think the F15 steering is that bad, Just drive it in Sport or Sport + and youll learn to love it.

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by BMWMN1971

+1 for MSport. If you have the settings on Sport or Sport+ the steerings is way stiffer than regular settings and gives a very nice ride.

I think you guys are confusing stiffer or heavier steering resistance with actual feedback. There's a difference. With electric steering, resistance can be dialed in... that's the difference you are feeling between normal, sport, and sport+. But feedback and feeling, that's the art that BMW was so good at before they went down this road with electric steering. But, it's an SUV, so it's not like I had real high expectations. It's not a deal breaker for me.

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

I think you guys are confusing stiffer or heavier steering resistance with actual feedback. There's a difference. With electric steering, resistance can be dialed in... that's the difference you are feeling between normal, sport, and sport+. But feedback and feeling, that's the art that BMW was so good at before they went down this road with electric steering. But, it's an SUV, so it's not like I had real high expectations. It's not a deal breaker for me.

True, but it's an expensive somewhat unreliable SUV. If I wanted Lexus steering, I could just buy a Lexus.

When I was last shopping for cars, I test drove the 535i, hated the steering on that too. Decided to just get the X5 instead and enjoy the extra space since the F10 wasn't offering any additional driving excitement. Discovered afterwards that the xDrive version didn't have EPS but I really needed the SUV space anyway.

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by Galion

Yes, welcome to the future, you have to go with the flow or I you will be driving outdated cars with obsolete technology.
Even Porsches 911 once praised for their fantastic steering feel now have electric steerings.
Said that I dont think the F15 steering is that bad, Just drive it in Sport or Sport + and youll learn to love it.

I am sure I will eventually have to learn to love EPS. The question for me is should I start now or should I buy an extended warranty for my E70 and start later.

The F15 has some tech I am very interest in, the Nav map with enhanced traffic information and the radar controlled cruise control. Both would be very useful for my Sunday night drives back into the City.

[barcelona]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

I am sure I will eventually have to learn to love EPS. The question for me is should I start now or should I buy an extended warranty for my E70 and start later.

The F15 has some tech I am very interest in, the Nav map with enhanced traffic information and the radar controlled cruise control. Both would be very useful for my Sunday night drives back into the City.

Sir
I gather that you love the steering in E70 but like the new tech in F15.
But your 3 yr old E70 is still so new. So steering versus tech, hmmm. Have you tried the adaptive steering option, mixed reviews on it.

[bimmer]

i am with you on the steering feedback. New bimmers are simply awful. I could not stomach new f10 Msport and F30 Msport and bought E92 335is instead. I am also very tempted to go e70 route instead of new f15 because of this. However I want a diesel and e70's diesel and tranny are over 10yrs old. There is no win, win scenario here.

Last hope for M3/4 steering

[newbimmerx5]

I recently got X1 as loaner when my F15 is in service. The steering on X1 is really heavy. Local driving is really painful and even more harder for my wife.

The X5 steering is silky smooth. And yes, X5 is very smooth on Hwy driving and i felt at times that i need stiff steering with proper reception. Sport mode helps a bit but not at a point where i wanted to be.

in any case, electric steering is the best option considering heavy local commute and maneuverability.

[dencoop]

Originally Posted by Galion

Yes, welcome to the future, you have to go with the flow or I you will be driving outdated cars with obsolete technology.
Even Porsches 911 once praised for their fantastic steering feel now have electric steerings.
Said that I dont think the F15 steering is that bad, Just drive it in Sport or Sport + and youll learn to love it.

I agree 100% with how BMW is screwing up the steering feel in the Fxx platform cars.

In regard to the 991 911, Yes it does have electric steering but Ill put $1m down that there is no way in h&l you would be able to tell. Porsche nailed it, the steering feels like what bmw hydrolic set ups used to feel like. If Porsche can do it then I am sure BMW can do it as well.... I think it has more to do with bringing more people into the brand and making them feel more comfortable with the steering set up such as people who cross shop Benz, Lexus etc....

It's unfortunate, I hope they see all of the steering complaints from the enthusiasts that promote the brand and make some changes in the next generation of cars.

Like I said, If Porsche can do it then I am sure BMW can do it as well.

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by newbimmerx5

I recently got X1 as loaner when my F15 is in service. The steering on X1 is really heavy. Local driving is really painful and even more harder for my wife.

The X5 steering is silky smooth. And yes, X5 is very smooth on Hwy driving and i felt at times that i need stiff steering with proper reception. Sport mode helps a bit but not at a point where i wanted to be.

in any case, electric steering is the best option considering heavy local commute and maneuverability.

I haven't driven the X1 but I owned a 135 vert and drove E90s (on which the X1 is based) many times. Pretty sure I would love the steering but the car is too small (it's also got all the E70 era technologies of course).

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by barcelona

Sir
I gather that you love the steering in E70 but like the new tech in F15.
But your 3 yr old E70 is still so new. So steering versus tech, hmmm. Have you tried the adaptive steering option, mixed reviews on it.

A 3yr old BMW has less than a year left on the warranty so I need to decide if I am sticking with this car for the long haul before extending the warranty.

I have the active steering on my E70. Feels over boosted at low speed but it's fine once the car gets going. Definitely don't need it on an F15. You can practically steer that with you pinky (just like a 70s Cadillac).