F15 Sport mode downshift question

[hyde]

Is it supposed to be that much less effective compared to E70?
I could engine brake and take turns without touching my brakes when I down shifted on my E70, but not so much with F15. Is this due to coasting function in comfort mode, do I really have to shift to Sport then tilt the shifter to M/S before downshifting to apply engine braking?

[midlifecrisis]

I don't have a E70 frame of reference, but my F15 35d has more engine braking effect than any other automatic I've ever owned - except in Eco-Pro where the transmission disengages so it can coast.

It may have more to do with the diesel engine than the transmission, but the engine braking was a very pleasant surprise for me. Which engine do you have?

[barcelona]

Same qualification, no E70 for reference. I rarely downshift with gears unless snow conditions as I see no need other than the interaction/fun with the car. I find that upshifting manually from a stop to be laborious. Car can only start from 2nd.

[BXdriver]

F15 experience only...
But I quite often switch to sport mode or most likely quickly pull the shifter over to "sport" for "holding the speed" without braking - even on very slight downhill’s (25d).
Comfort mode will not be of much help...car only increases speed...

Bent

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by hyde

Is it supposed to be that much less effective compared to E70?
I could engine brake and take turns without touching my brakes when I down shifted on my E70, but not so much with F15. Is this due to coasting function in comfort mode, do I really have to shift to Sport then tilt the shifter to M/S before downshifting to apply engine braking?

I just pull on the left paddle in any mode for downshift. Unless in Sport (or +), with a good sense of timing it returns to auto when it should, or I pull the right paddle to up shift, or keep the hold on the right paddle to return to auto quickly. Somewhere deep in a thread I have posted a video demo.

[turbotoy4me]

Originally Posted by hyde

Is it supposed to be that much less effective compared to E70?
I could engine brake and take turns without touching my brakes when I down shifted on my E70, but not so much with F15. Is this due to coasting function in comfort mode, do I really have to shift to Sport then tilt the shifter to M/S before downshifting to apply engine braking?

I frequently use my paddles to down shift for engine braking here in the mountains. If I am on a long mountain pass I will quickly move the shifter to sport mode so it will hold the gears. Works well for engine braking for me. Seem as good as the 11 35i X3 with the same 8 speed trans. I do not have any reference to the E70 so I am unable to make a comparison. Hope this helps.

[hyde]

Can you guys test this, going down the roat around 60mph, start downshifting, see if BMW applies engine braking almost to a point where you wouldn't have to hit the brakes to slow down.
I just did that yesterday and it felt like no difference at all. I am not sure if I need to be in Sport mode in case Comfort is not as aggressive as Sport. I can still feel the engine braking however I can easily tell the momentary stay in Neutral is way longer, thus while going downhill when you lower from 4 to 3, the length of time it takes to shift and during the shift there is an obvious increase in speed before it finally locks the gears to 3.

It could also be that my last E70 was trained after thousands of miles of driving and it may not be fair to expect a new vehicle under 1000 to perform the same way.

[MattBianco]

Also keep in mind that gear ratios of each gear are closer to each other with 8 than with 6. You can go down two and really feel the engine braking. Go down three and you will be braking.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

Also keep in mind that gear ratios of each gear are closer to each other with 8 than with 6. You can go down two and really feel the engine braking. Go down three and you will be braking.

It's possible, but my E70 also had 8 speed transmission.

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by hyde

It's possible, but my E70 also had 8 speed transmission.

I take that part back. I didn't know they came in 8.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

I take that part back. I didn't know they came in 8.

I find your lack of faith in earlier BMW models disturbing.

[NPickles]

Originally Posted by hyde

Can you guys test this, going down the roat around 60mph, start downshifting, see if BMW applies engine braking almost to a point where you wouldn't have to hit the brakes to slow down.
I just did that yesterday and it felt like no difference at all. I am not sure if I need to be in Sport mode in case Comfort is not as aggressive as Sport. I can still feel the engine braking however I can easily tell the momentary stay in Neutral is way longer, thus while going downhill when you lower from 4 to 3, the length of time it takes to shift and during the shift there is an obvious increase in speed before it finally locks the gears to 3.

It could also be that my last E70 was trained after thousands of miles of driving and it may not be fair to expect a new vehicle under 1000 to perform the same way.

Tried that in my F15 40d in Comfort mode, doing about 50, downshifted a couple or 3 gears using the paddles and got very little engine braking (compared to other diesel vehicles I have driven before where the engine braking is much more pronounced).

It seems a bit odd to me that people have vastly different results doing this, assuming they all have diesels and not petrols. I will try it again in mine tonight in Sport to see if it makes any difference.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by NPickles

Tried that in my F15 40d in Comfort mode, doing about 50, downshifted a couple or 3 gears using the paddles and got very little engine braking (compared to other diesel vehicles I have driven before where the engine braking is much more pronounced).

It seems a bit odd to me that people have vastly different results doing this, assuming they all have diesels and not petrols. I will try it again in mine tonight in Sport to see if it makes any difference.

Mine is a gasser and I have the same experience, that's why I thought maybe Sport will have better braking, but haven't had a chance to try it. RPM does go up, though.

[NPickles]

Tried this again in Sport mode and there appears to be a bit more engine braking than in comfort but not as much as would be typical of a diesel engine with much higher compression than a petrol engine.

The engine rpm obviously goes up but it wouldn't be a substitute for braking for me unless you have loads of room to slow down.

[barcelona]

I concur with @NPickles, sport & comfort does not have much braking power from 100km (60mph) or at 90km ( 50i). Part of the slow down may be from foot of the gas pedal. The manual shifting is more functional for accelerating, also good for holding speed when highway traffic is heavy with reduced speeds.

[Barbja]

Originally Posted by hyde

Is it supposed to be that much less effective compared to E70?
I could engine brake and take turns without touching my brakes when I down shifted on my E70, but not so much with F15. Is this due to coasting function in comfort mode, do I really have to shift to Sport then tilt the shifter to M/S before downshifting to apply engine braking?

I know exactly what you're talking about. I would downshift all the time in my E53, E70 and E71. In the E7*s I always drove in sport mode (the button) and used the shifter to do the downshifting not the paddles (long time standard xmission habits take over I guess).

I usually downshifted 1 gear to pass (or prevent passing ) and 2 or more to brake. One gear usually wasn't sufficient to slow down enough especially if it was starting from 7th or 8th gear.

Perhaps in comfort mode, you go up into the higher gears faster so you have to downshift more than you did before to get the desired result.

I won't have my F16 for a few days so I can't check that yet. However, I'm driving a new 5 series loaner right now; I'll see how it behaves.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by Barbja

I know exactly what you're talking about. I would downshift all the time in my E53, E70 and E71. In the E7*s I always drove in sport mode (the button) and used the shifter to do the downshifting not the paddles (long time standard xmission habits take over I guess).

I usually downshifted 1 gear to pass (or prevent passing ) and 2 or more to brake. One gear usually wasn't sufficient to slow down enough especially if it was starting from 7th or 8th gear.

Perhaps in comfort mode, you go up into the higher gears faster so you have to downshift more than you did before to get the desired result.

I won't have my F16 for a few days so I can't check that yet. However, I'm driving a new 5 series loaner right now; I'll see how it behaves.

I think it depends on what type of transmission it has, the older one in E70 was more mechanical, but the new one feels more electronic. I wish we can get more information with official details, why is the newer X5 behaving more like a Lexus than a sports BMW. Does M-Sport come with better transmission?

[Barbja]

The 535 that I'm driving right now is MSport, but it does not have the MAdaptive suspension or paddle shifters.

I have some observations from yesterday. All of my driving was at about 40mph or less. I did the downshifts in both comfort and sport at various speeds.

1. When driving in comfort mode, it was almost always one gear higher than sport mode at the same speed. Every once in a while it wasn't and I don't know why.

2. When I move the shifter left, it almost always shifts down one gear right away. It doesn't do it all the time (I can't remember if this behavior was specific to comfort mode or not). I know that none of my previous Xs did such a thing and I don't like it.

3. When driving <40, when I downshift I almost always want to end up in 3rd gear (usually to just slow down so that I don't have to use the brakes in slow/go traffic -- because, you know, moving your foot over is soooo stressful ), and 2nd gear to make a right turn. Since comfort mode was starting at a higher gear, I always had to downshift at least two times to get the gear I wanted even when it had already done one downshift for me.

4. This car doesn't have paddle shifters. With paddle shifters, since I wouldn't have to move the gear shifter over to Sport mode, in comfort mode I would probably have to downshift even more since I wasn't getting the "free" downshift.

I liked the behavior of my previous Xs wrt downshifting. I didn't like the behavior that I experienced yesterday so much. I drove with the shifter in sport mode all the time in my E53. Downshifting was really natural. In my E70/E71, I never drove in shifter sport mode for very long because I didn't like its shift points (it kept the car in the lower gears too long), but downshifting was still a relatively natural experience (move the shifter over and forward and it was down one gear). With this 535, the same action is giving me a mystery gear. Perhaps I'll get used to it.

[NPickles]

Originally Posted by hyde

I think it depends on what type of transmission it has, the older one in E70 was more mechanical, but the new one feels more electronic. I wish we can get more information with official details, why is the newer X5 behaving more like a Lexus than a sports BMW. Does M-Sport come with better transmission?

I forgot to mention that I have the 2TB Sports Auto Transmission in mine as an option, the same as the M-Sport has by default. Gives slightly better figures, paddles and launch control.

I suspect the reason for the differences from older models is probably something to do with efficiency, disconnecting the engine from the transmission when coasting or slowing down reduces resistance and allows you to coast further without having to accelerate, some people will call this progress but will have a lot to do with the CO2 emissions tests.

Burn less fuel in the test = emit less CO2 = UK drivers pay less taxes (road tax, company car tax), can't comment on other regions though.

Having come from a hybrid Lexus, the RX450h had more of an engine braking action than my F15 has due to it having regenerative braking to recharge the traction batteries. The brake pads lasted forever and created bugger all brake dust as they were barely used.