Front Control Arm Diagnosis Hell

[GMWNashville]

Where in TN are you?

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by GMWNashville

Where in TN are you?

Chatt. I see you're in Nash.

[crystalworks]

I've listened to that video and it's definitely subtle. Sounds like going over road seems/gaps like you would hear on some bridges. How big of a bump do you have to go over for the noise to present itself? Does it do it going over driveways at an angle? Speed bumps going slowly?

Out of curiosity, has your reinforcement plate been removed by anyone for any reason?

I am not great at identifying individual parts failure through noise since, like I said, I tend to replace the entire thing all at once when anything makes a noise. But I'll try to help if I can.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I've listened to that video and it's definitely subtle. Sounds like going over road seems/gaps like you would hear on some bridges. How big of a bump do you have to go over for the noise to present itself? Does it do it going over driveways at an angle? Speed bumps going slowly?

Out of curiosity, has your reinforcement plate been removed by anyone for any reason?

I am not great at identifying individual parts failure through noise since, like I said, I tend to replace the entire thing all at once when anything makes a noise. But I'll try to help if I can.

Yeah it's so subtle it's hard to diagnose and you can't replicate the sound with the car on the lift. Angled driveways trigger it or even the bump most driveways have that meets the road. Suspension doesn't have very articulated for it to make the noise. Sometimes the torque transfer from drive to reverse back to drive can make it. Seems to rear its' head with heat (either hotter climate) or the car getting really warmed up. Speed bumps do initiate the sound. My driveway is flat and I still hear it most days. My mechanic that I took for a test drive said he could kind of feel it in the passenger side floorboard. That's why we thought it was a strut or strut mount but the coilover replacement didn't cure it. Take a look at that #13 on the diagram (the rearward FCA). It ties into the subframe via a bushing. I feel like that bushing is prob faulty as subtle torque changes trigger the sound and could activate that bushing. I just am not sure why the bushing doesn't visually show damage as much as I hear the sound. Parking garages are the worst as the sound is amplified.

I don't really know what reinforcement plate you're referring to? And to my knowledge it hasn't been messed with. Appreciate the help.

[GMWNashville]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

Chatt. I see you're in Nash.

Let me know if you want to bring it up!

[Xstar]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

I've been trying to diagnosis a "creaking" sound coming from the front passenger side suspension for 3-4 months now, and I'm about ready to drive my X5 off a cliff. I hear the sound at very low speeds. It first started sounding like the strut mount was loose and now has progressed to a "creaking" sound. On top of that the car feels very loose under light cornering load and will often trigger the traction control light. It's a very uneasy feeling when the traction control intervenes. Here's what I've replaced since the sound emerged:

- BC Racing coilovers (I thought my OEM strut or strut mount was bad so instead of paying $600 for 2 new front struts I paid $1K for the coilovers for all 4 corners.
- Both drivers and passenger side Upper control arm assembly (#19 on diagram)
- Passenger side lower forward control arm (#8 on diagram)
- Passenger side axle cv boot replacement

So I have yet to replace #8 on the diagram so this would be the next logical step but I've already thrown so much money at this issue my fear is this won't fix my probs. I could see that bushing going bad causing the creaking sound but would it be enough to trigger traction control??? What about sway bar bushings? Do these commonly go bad? I've had a mechanic take a ride w/ me and hear what I'm talking about, but he said he couldn't duplicate the sound once on the lift. He claims all the bushings checked out except there was a touch of excessive movement in the forward FCA (#8) when he torqued it with a pry bar. So he replaced that last week and still the sound plus traction control issue persists. What would you guys do in my shoes?

I'd love to hear from guys that have had FCA (#13) replaced and what kind of issues were present before the arm was replaced.

'15 X5 35i X-drive 102K miles

Why not just have the #8 control arm bushings replaced with Meyle 3146100004/HD which have a 4 year warranty? I took my control arms to a frame repair shop to replace the bushings.

https://www.carid.com/meyle/front-lo...0-0004-hd.html

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

Yeah it's so subtle it's hard to diagnose and you can't replicate the sound with the car on the lift. Angled driveways trigger it or even the bump most driveways have that meets the road. Suspension doesn't have very articulated for it to make the noise. Sometimes the torque transfer from drive to reverse back to drive can make it. Seems to rear its' head with heat (either hotter climate) or the car getting really warmed up. Speed bumps do initiate the sound. My driveway is flat and I still hear it most days. My mechanic that I took for a test drive said he could kind of feel it in the passenger side floorboard. That's why we thought it was a strut or strut mount but the coilover replacement didn't cure it. Take a look at that #13 on the diagram (the rearward FCA). It ties into the subframe via a bushing. I feel like that bushing is prob faulty as subtle torque changes trigger the sound and could activate that bushing. I just am not sure why the bushing doesn't visually show damage as much as I hear the sound. Parking garages are the worst as the sound is amplified.

I don't really know what reinforcement plate you're referring to? And to my knowledge it hasn't been messed with. Appreciate the help.

Certainly could be #13 if it's original. In fact, instead or re-replacing #8, your mechanic should have done #13, but hindsight is always 20/20. At 102k miles all of your front suspension is going to fail one part after another. #13 is due in my experience, I'd start there. And remember you're only doing one side on some of these parts, the other side parts will fail in the next 10k miles in most cases.

The reinforcement plate is #4 in that diagram. If not torqued back down properly it can cause a creak/groan. Not a concern if it's never been removed.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by GMWNashville

Let me know if you want to bring it up!

I might just do that! Appreciate the invite!

Originally Posted by Xstar

Why not just have the #8 control arm bushings replaced with Meyle 3146100004/HD which have a 4 year warranty? I took my control arms to a frame repair shop to replace the bushings.

https://www.carid.com/meyle/front-lo...0-0004-hd.html

We've talked before in my other thread and did indeed replace the #8 bushing w/ the Meyle one. That was actually my first stab at curing the noise. It was a pain in the ass to press the OEM bushing out and the new one it but we got it done. Did not cure the noise though. My mechanic thought we had pushed the bushing in incorrectly (which we didn't) so he recently replaced that whole #8 arm. Of course this didn't fix $hit!

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Certainly could be #13 if it's original. In fact, instead or re-replacing #8, your mechanic should have done #13, but hindsight is always 20/20. At 102k miles all of your front suspension is going to fail one part after another. #13 is due in my experience, I'd start there. And remember you're only doing one side on some of these parts, the other side parts will fail in the next 10k miles in most cases.

The reinforcement plate is #4 in that diagram. If not torqued back down properly it can cause a creak/groan. Not a concern if it's never been removed.

I totally agree w/ you the logical step was replace #13 not mess with #8. He said that was the only arm showing excessive movement so I trusted him and wasted around $250 because of it. Mechanic wouldn't even admit to the misdiagnosis. My car is never going back to him. I hear what you're saying about the drivers side and I agree but I don't even want to think about that side until I get this damn passenger side noise gone. By the time the driver's side starts I should have my doctrine in FCA and FCAB's To my knowledge #4 has never been removed.

[Xstar]

Has #13 been replaced (I've lost track)? If not, try injecting lube in the ball joint boot to see if that reduces the noise?

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by Xstar

Has #13 been replaced (I've lost track)? If not, try injecting lube in the ball joint boot to see if that reduces the noise?

I think you're right on the money. #13 is the only control arm I haven't replaced on the passenger side where the noise is coming from. I'm highly considering the delphi brand since it's only $60 and on amazon prime.

[P1]

I bet you anything it's #13. I'm on my seventh!

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by P1

I bet you anything it's #13. I'm on my seventh!

That's right, I remember seeing a few of your threads. 7th?!?! That's crazy bro! How many were replaced under warranty? I'm considering the Delphi brand because of the price and can have it in my hands in 2 days. Thoughts? Sounds like the OEM arm isn't the best quality. Did you hear a sounds similar to mine when it failed? Any looseness or floaty feel while cornering?

[classic_erik]

Guys - Do we need an alignment after replacing #13?

[P1]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

That's right, I remember seeing a few of your threads. 7th?!?! That's crazy bro! How many were replaced under warranty? I'm considering the Delphi brand because of the price and can have it in my hands in 2 days. Thoughts? Sounds like the OEM arm isn't the best quality. Did you hear a sounds similar to mine when it failed? Any looseness or floaty feel while cornering?

Some under warranty, some under goodwill, some out of pocket.

That being said, my service advisor told me BMW has now created/released a v2 of this part, given the fact there were so many problems with it. Both of mine are now v2, and so far, no issues yet.

Mine would groan/moan at low speeds or going over a small bump, like pulling into the garage or parking at the supermarket.

[P1]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

Guys - Do we need an alignment after replacing #13?

Yes, and it’s always been included when I’ve gotten mine replaced.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

Guys - Do we need an alignment after replacing #13?

Yes, unfortunately! I literally just had an alignment done 3 weeks ago. If they really did the alignment. I wasn't given an alignment spec sheet and he's telling me the machine doesn't store the specs. This is the same shop that installed the coilovers and misdiagnosed my "creaking" sound as FCA #8. They f'ing suck and my car won't be back over there. I will spread that word around time about my experience and the lack to make it right. Bitter? Fuk yeah I am! I don't take kind to people cheating me out of money.

Originally Posted by P1

Some under warranty, some under goodwill, some out of pocket.

That being said, my service advisor told me BMW has now created/released a v2 of this part, given the fact there were so many problems with it. Both of mine are now v2, and so far, no issues yet.

Mine would groan/moan at low speeds or going over a small bump, like pulling into the garage or parking at the supermarket.

Good to know. Online I have yet to see the OEM part so V1 or V2 so I guess it's a gamble on which version you're actually buying. Again, I think I'm going to go Delphi. If in a year it starts making the same sound I'll know the issue and will buy the OEM part and DIY.

It sounds like you caught your FCA failure at the beginning stages. Mine started w/ a slight groan and now has become a louder creaking w/ traction control coming into the picture now

[Sophisticated Redneck]

I'm sure you are already doing it, but gotta ask anyway - you and all the mechanics that have worked on this have always pre-loaded the suspension to ride height before torquing everything to the specs BMW lists right? I recently helped a friend with a similar issue and it was caused by him torquing everything down without preloading the suspension.

Also double check the chassis plate as mentioning above and see if the bolts look like they have ever been messed with. If so order new bolts (they are one use only)and re-torque, this plate has to be done with entire suspension pre-loaded also, easiest way is drive truck up on 4 car ramps (assuming you have x-drive).

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I'm sure you are already doing it, but gotta ask anyway - you and all the mechanics that have worked on this have always pre-loaded the suspension to ride height before torquing everything to the specs BMW lists right? I recently helped a friend with a similar issue and it was caused by him torquing everything down without preloading the suspension.

Also double check the chassis plate as mentioning above and see if the bolts look like they have ever been messed with. If so order new bolts (they are one use only)and re-torque, this plate has to be done with entire suspension pre-loaded also, easiest way is drive truck up on 4 car ramps (assuming you have x-drive).

Every time my buddy and I have worked on the car we have always pre-loaded before torqueing to spec. Now I wasn't looking over the shoulder of the shop mechanic that I took it to so I'm not for sure. I will double check the chassis plate. There has been no reason it should have been messed w/ but again I haven't done all the work myself. My X5 is x-drive. Thanks for chiming...the pre-loaded suspension before torqueing to spec is a great tip.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by P1

Some under warranty, some under goodwill, some out of pocket.

That being said, my service advisor told me BMW has now created/released a v2 of this part, given the fact there were so many problems with it. Both of mine are now v2, and so far, no issues yet.

Mine would groan/moan at low speeds or going over a small bump, like pulling into the garage or parking at the supermarket.

Do you mind pulling the newer part number from you repair receipts? Realoem isn’t giving me an updated part number.

Sry to hear about your troubles, but mega appreciate the information and knowledge for the community!

[P1]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Do you mind pulling the newer part number from you repair receipts? Realoem isn’t giving me an updated part number.

Sry to hear about your troubles, but mega appreciate the information and knowledge for the community!

I'm not sure if there was a new part number. I think it's the same part number, just a v2 version. Unfortunately my dealership stopped showing part numbers on the receipts last year.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by P1

I'm not sure if there was a new part number. I think it's the same part number, just a v2 version. Unfortunately my dealership stopped showing part numbers on the receipts last year.

Ah well, no worries. Appreciate the effort!

[classic_erik]

Originally Posted by P1

I'm not sure if there was a new part number. I think it's the same part number, just a v2 version. Unfortunately my dealership stopped showing part numbers on the receipts last year.

The ball joint design was updated on part numbers 31126864821 and 31126864822.