M Performance Brakes!!!

[Taran.J]

Originally Posted by r33

Looks like I might go to Bellevue in April.

Should be around, Im in San Francisco now, coming back Friday. I guess I'll have to drive the X5 then huh? Haha Im going to put you to work, I haven't installed my front reflectors yet

[1230vani]

Rear not painted in blue? Sorry wrong photo

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

If you own the car, you might think about getting the rotors cryogenically treated. This will make them last 2- 3 times longer than stock, and they will drill the rotors while they have them. We did this for track use and it works. I do not understand why performance brakes rotors don't come with slots or drilled - they work better under performance braking applications.

Here is the company I've used.

http://www.frozenrotors.com

When my car comes out of warranty and it needs new rotors, this is what I will do. The rotors will outlast my car. You know all the EURO cars (Merc, Jag, Porsche, BMW, etc) use a different, softer, alloy for rotor material than the US. This provides better stopping but at the cost of wearing down your rotors MUCH faster. My SL550 will eat rotors in 25,000 miles - my F250 in 100,000 and it's stopping loads up to 17,000 lbs. With the cryo treatment and the right pads, you can get better stopping power, control dust and extend the life of the rotor.

Have fun.

Do people still drill rotors? I thought that modern (i.e. post 1970) brake pads don't produce nearly the volume of gas necessary to make them useful and that they're installed for looks. As for the X5 package, more surface area wins here, I think. Better stopping power and plenty of iron to dissipate heat.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by cSurf

Do people still drill rotors? I thought that modern (i.e. post 1970) brake pads don't produce nearly the volume of gas necessary to make them useful and that they're installed for looks. As for the X5 package, more surface area wins here, I think. Better stopping power and plenty of iron to dissipate heat.

Yes, very much so. The only performance rotors you do not drill are carbon fiber rotors because they need to retain heat, and the higher the heat, the more effective they are - to a point. Otherwise, all hi-performance brake pad compounds still need to be vented during the braking process through drilled or slotted rotors - steel or ceramic. For street use, there's no need to drill or slot - braking from 80mph to 0 is nothing for today's brakes. But for high performance track/DE's/autobahn-type, braking efficiency is improved by venting the gases that form between the pads and rotors. Surface area discussions for drilled/slotted vs solid is as old as "which oil is better" - more opinions than facts.

[cenix]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Longevity and safety? Stainless does not degrade like rubber or "hardened rubber". I've replaced dozens of split and leaking OEM lines with DOT approved stainless. If you want the best upgrade on stock brakes and make them feel like brembo's, have stainless braided lines made.They won't overcome brake fade on the track - that's the stock calipers and rotors fading and boiling the brake build. This is one upgrade where you will feel an immediate difference - get rid of those rubber lines bulging (aka, soft pedal) under moderate to heavy braking.

It's a shame this kit does not come with the stainless lines. That's where the real benefit is for day to day driving - brake feel.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Yes, very much so. The only performance rotors you do not drill are carbon fiber rotors because they need to retain heat, and the higher the heat, the more effective they are - to a point. Otherwise, all hi-performance brake pad compounds still need to be vented during the braking process through drilled or slotted rotors - steel or ceramic. For street use, there's no need to drill or slot - braking from 80mph to 0 is nothing for today's brakes. But for high performance track/DE's/autobahn-type, braking efficiency is improved by venting the gases that form between the pads and rotors. Surface area discussions for drilled/slotted vs solid is as old as "which oil is better" - more opinions than facts.

Yes, actually stainless braided teflon lines do not have the longevity of original standard rubber lines. The lines you find on cars today are one of the parts manufacturers don't skimp on for good reason. It is not uncommon to see original brake lines on cars still working fine without failure after 10+ years. Stainless braided lines, however, under certain circumstances presented through daily driving, can and do allow minute debris to enter the braids and over time create abrasions on the soft teflon hosing inside. Eventually it will lead to premature failure and/or the cheaply crimped hose ends often blow out. For these reasons, if you decide to replace with stainless braided lines, go with quality made lines and make sure they are checked often for any kinks, abrasions, and leaks and/or replaced at regular intervals.

It's true that the "feel" of the brakes with stainless braided lines will create a sense of better modulation under hard driving. If you are daily driving the car though, in my opinion the original rubber lines are the way to go.

Cross drilled rotors have no place in serious motorsport. Most racing teams are using the modified slots or J-hook style of slotted rotors. If anything, cross drilled should only be on street going cars for the look and possible benefits of evacuating water better under wet conditions, but that is all. Even Porsche's "drilled" rotors are actually cast with the holes in them, so they are not really drilled. They, too, are more susceptible to cracking than a quality standard solid or slotted rotor in motorsport. For street, I'd say anything goes depending on the look you want.

In any case, since we are on the subject of brakes, the M Performance brakes are merely for 1. Looks and 2. Better fade resistance due to the larger rotor sizes (ie. better braking under heavier braking circumstances like towing heavy loads or going up & down steep grades over long distances/time). The real braking performance is determined by the quality/compound of the tires since even the stock braking system can lock the brakes easily on these platforms.

That being said, I LOVE these M Performance brakes. Look at the size difference of the rotors! Wonderful!

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by cenix

Yes, actually stainless braided teflon lines do not have the longevity of original standard rubber lines. The lines you find on cars today are one of the parts manufacturers don't skimp on for good reason. It is not uncommon to see original brake lines on cars still working fine without failure after 10+ years. Stainless braided lines, however, under certain circumstances presented through daily driving, can and do allow minute debris to enter the braids and over time create abrasions on the soft teflon hosing inside. Eventually it will lead to premature failure and/or the cheaply crimped hose ends often blow out. For these reasons, if you decide to replace with stainless braided lines, go with quality made lines and make sure they are checked often for any kinks, abrasions, and leaks and/or replaced at regular intervals.

It's true that the "feel" of the brakes with stainless braided lines will create a sense of better modulation under hard driving. If you are daily driving the car though, in my opinion the original rubber lines are the way to go.

Cross drilled rotors have no place in serious motorsport. Most racing teams are using the modified slots or J-hook style of slotted rotors. If anything, cross drilled should only be on street going cars for the look and possible benefits of evacuating water better under wet conditions, but that is all. Even Porsche's "drilled" rotors are actually cast with the holes in them, so they are not really drilled. They, too, are more susceptible to cracking than a quality standard solid or slotted rotor in motorsport. For street, I'd say anything goes depending on the look you want.

In any case, since we are on the subject of brakes, the M Performance brakes are merely for 1. Looks and 2. Better fade resistance due to the larger rotor sizes (ie. better braking under heavier braking circumstances like towing heavy loads or going up & down steep grades over long distances/time). The real braking performance is determined by the quality/compound of the tires since even the stock braking system can lock the brakes easily on these platforms.

That being said, I LOVE these M Performance brakes. Look at the size difference of the rotors! Wonderful!

Thanks

I'll share your comment that drilled (or we'll agree to call them "holes") has no place in motorsports with my track buddies. They need a smile coming out of winter hibernation. Three quarters of the field will have to park their cars. If failures were somewhat frequent, you would never see BMW or AMG or Brembo, or or or, manufacture these rotors due to liability. This is like another which oil is better debate...

As for stainless steel braided, you'll notice I used the term DOT approved. I have been doing this a long time and have not had one SS line come back. I agree that regardless of the material, you need to do regular maintenance. I've seen rubber split far more often than braided leaking or failing. Look for DOT approved.

Rubber lines are fine for you. I like the "feel" of braided. Dollar for dollar, if you are looking for a better brake feel, braided is the way to go over spending $$$ on new brake system. If you tow, then the bigger rotors, calipers and pads are a good option, but not completely needed if you maintain your braking system and use the correct fluid to, at least, raise the temperature of the boiling point of the brake fluid, and tow within the weight limits given by BMW. I agree that stock will stop the car just as fast as the M - but you definitely loose the wow factor.

The irony here is that I am leaving my brakes bone stock, rubber lines and all...

[cenix]

Agree to disagree I guess regarding rotors. Unless your track buddies and you are running the carbon ceramic type of rotors which usually have the holes pressed into the mold, "holed" cast iron rotors are more prone to cracking under hard use than a comparable slotted/standard one. Anyone who wants to find what is not hearsay or myth can easily do a search on something like F1 or DTM brake rotors, for example, and see for yourself how many teams are using "holed" rotors (carbon ceramic is exception as mentioned). HPDE and autocross are not serious motorsports, in case that's what your track buddies are participating in. In those instances as I stated in my previous post, cross drilled are just fine.

As far as why AMG, Brembo, BMW, etc. are using cross drilled rotors on their vehicles, it is merely for the racing look and it is what people want/like. I stated that it does have its merits on the street. But it does not prove as reliable or durable as slotted/standard rotors in serious motorsport. Make no mistake that I have no qualms about cross drilled, I'm just trying to help with myth vs. reality.

The mutual irony is that my brakes are completely stock, too.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Thanks

I'll share your comment that drilled (or we'll agree to call them "holes") has no place in motorsports with my track buddies. They need a smile coming out of winter hibernation. Three quarters of the field will have to park their cars. If failures were somewhat frequent, you would never see BMW or AMG or Brembo, or or or, manufacture these rotors due to liability. This is like another which oil is better debate...

As for stainless steel braided, you'll notice I used the term DOT approved. I have been doing this a long time and have not had one SS line come back. I agree that regardless of the material, you need to do regular maintenance. I've seen rubber split far more often than braided leaking or failing. Look for DOT approved.

Rubber lines are fine for you. I like the "feel" of braided. Dollar for dollar, if you are looking for a better brake feel, braided is the way to go over spending $$$ on new brake system. If you tow, then the bigger rotors, calipers and pads are a good option, but not completely needed if you maintain your braking system and use the correct fluid to, at least, raise the temperature of the boiling point of the brake fluid, and tow within the weight limits given by BMW. I agree that stock will stop the car just as fast as the M - but you definitely loose the wow factor.

The irony here is that I am leaving my brakes bone stock, rubber lines and all...

I'm thought BMW factory DTM and ALMS teams run j-hooked rotors (AP Racing, I believe).

Here's a quick google...

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by cSurf

I'm thought BMW factory DTM and ALMS teams run j-hooked rotors (AP Racing, I believe).

Here's a quick google...

One more time

[PabloK]

and we're 100% these will fit on the E70?

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by PabloK

and we're 100% these will fit on the E70?

Yes.

[Roundown]

BMW GT3 and DTM cars running J-hooked AP Racing brakes.

http://bmwusaclassic.tumblr.com/post...2011-2012-alms

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by cSurf

BMW GT3 and DTM cars running J-hooked AP Racing brakes.

http://bmwusaclassic.tumblr.com/post...2011-2012-alms

Check out the color of rotors from the heat cycles along with the metallic scarring from the brake pads. It would have been cool to see the colors change after a race to see how high their temps go. Cool shots.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Check out the color of rotors from the heat cycles along with the metallic scarring from the brake pads. It would have been cool to see the colors change after a race to see how high their temps go. Cool shots.

Great point- I'll dig around that site (run by BMW).

Essex packages AP racing brakes for consumers- they're quite popular on M cars. I imagine they could find a set up for the F15 if there was enough interest. Best thing about AP is they're considerably lighter than OEM/StopTech, etc. Not quite as flashy- though. One color, small, two piece. All business.