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      02-03-2015, 11:53 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by opasha View Post
This may also be the reason why you're jumping so high and the lower numbers aren't doing it for you. Processor speed makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. Trust me on this. The processor is the single most important thing above memory that allows a computer/car/phone etc to multi-task and task efficiently/fast.
could be
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      02-03-2015, 01:16 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by opasha View Post
This may also be the reason why you're jumping so high and the lower numbers aren't doing it for you. Processor speed makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. Trust me on this. The processor is the single most important thing above memory that allows a computer/car/phone etc to multi-task and task efficiently/fast.
I think you are both right.

Remember, the chip is only processing two signals on the diesel. You don't need much speed here. Sample at 400 times a second each which is slow by processing speed comparisons, but plenty fast for two inputs - even though the inputs are continuous voltage (probably 5v).

However, if you are talking about the ECU that blends all this incoming data, you need as big of a processor as possible - speed is very important.

I doubt any of us could tell a difference in processor speed with a bolt-on chip.
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      02-03-2015, 01:24 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I think you are both right.

Remember, the chip is only processing two signals on the diesel. You don't need much speed here. Sample at 400 times a second each which is slow by processing speed comparisons, but plenty fast for two inputs - even though the inputs are continuous voltage (probably 5v).

However, if you are talking about the ECU that blends all this incoming data, you need as big of a processor as possible - speed is very important.

I doubt any of us could tell a difference in processor speed with a bolt-on chip.
Agreed and well said, my friend . You and paicapo are probably right regarding that the processor speed won't be noticeable to us until we get down to what is actually going on at the ECU level with live computer data showing results side by side. I wonder if there is a program like AnTuTu Benchmark for cars, lol.
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      02-03-2015, 01:37 PM   #92
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I went downstairs to the graveyard and pulled out three examples of carnage that was the result of a bit too much boost, a bit too much fuel and/or a bit too much timing. These are all from different engines, but the principles are the same.

The piston with the piece missing is from too little fuel and too much timing (think of S1 and S2 on RaceChip diesel) resulting in detonation. The piston got so hot, that a piece melted off and the moly ring (steel moly) bent like a pretzel. That missing piece of metal vaporized and went through the turbo coating the turbine blades with aluminum. Toast.

The piston pic that seems intact, is actually frosted and very close to coming apart. It is brittle and was overheated by too much timing (looking for torque just prior to high boost). It is on the intake valve side of the piston - you would think all the heat is on the exhaust side, right??

The last pic is of the piston wrist pin that holds the piston to the connecting rod. This shows a lot of wear for a motor with less than 10,000 miles. The scratches are not concerning because they are surface scratches, but you can also see two stripes about a 1/3 of the way in from each side. This is actually a ridge and warping you can feel and tells you that the custom forged piston was taking a hell of beating from the load we put on it - high torque and HP. This doesn't usually show (if ever) until 100,000 miles and only if the engine had problems. This is tuning on the edge, but this was a very fast car that had the engine rebuilt each year. This can happen to our cars if you dial up the tune (anyone's tune) too much where the piston is being beaten like a hammer on its crown rather than pushed down like a engineered combustion of gases.

Tuning and building is an art as much as a science. If you just throw something on the engine that's not designed specifically for the parts, you could get in trouble.
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      02-03-2015, 01:55 PM   #93
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42pilot, wow that's crazy. Thanks for sharing .
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      02-03-2015, 02:14 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opasha View Post
42pilot, wow that's crazy. Thanks for sharing .
I made sure I used terms like "a bit" because these are not catastrophic failures (although the piston coming apart is catastrophic, the engine still ran - yikes!), but it is significant damage. In all cases, the engines operated but there was increased oil usage, rough idle, loss of peak power and so on. So, don't expect a poor chip to make your motor stop working - it could damage it badly though.
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      02-03-2015, 02:32 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I made sure I used terms like "a bit" because these are not catastrophic failures (although the piston coming apart is catastrophic, the engine still ran - yikes!), but it is significant damage. In all cases, the engines operated but there was increased oil usage, rough idle, loss of peak power and so on. So, don't expect a poor chip to make your motor stop working - it could damage it badly though.
You're right, but any damage that significant is still worth being cautious over as you mentioned and with which I am in 100% agreement with especially for those of us like you and myself who plan on keeping their vehicles for long periods of time.
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      02-03-2015, 03:25 PM   #96
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Picked up car after its 8 day retreat at the spa. Off the record comment from a service advisor with bmw for 20 plus years: "never seen a CEL on Burger tuning chips....it produces less max power but it is trouble free....never set any chip to near maximum".
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      02-03-2015, 05:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I went downstairs to the graveyard and pulled out three examples of carnage that was the result of a bit too much boost, a bit too much fuel and/or a bit too much timing. These are all from different engines, but the principles are the same.

Tuning and building is an art as much as a science. If you just throw something on the engine that's not designed specifically for the parts, you could get in trouble.
Crazy!!!!

To me its crazy that the RaceChip or similar piggy back can cause that much damage based on settings that are put into consumers hands. Would these examples have be the result of an ignored CEL over a long period of time?

I mean seriously, if A/F mix is way off or IAT2's are too high, the ECU should be able to retard timing or override settings for preservation purposes. The throw a CEL to call for attention.

I mean that's one way to scare everyone into a $2,500 Dinan tune!
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      02-03-2015, 06:05 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by CERS 1 View Post
Crazy!!!!

To me its crazy that the RaceChip or similar piggy back can cause that much damage based on settings that are put into consumers hands. Would these examples have be the result of an ignored CEL over a long period of time?

I mean seriously, if A/F mix is way off or IAT2's are too high, the ECU should be able to retard timing or override settings for preservation purposes. The throw a CEL to call for attention.

I mean that's one way to scare everyone into a $2,500 Dinan tune!
You guys are realy cracking me up
I don't think @42pilot was referring to a piggyback tune as the cause for failed pistongs etc, this was the work of more technical tuning.
I'm sorry but your post is ridiculous and it's how false rumours starts.
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      02-03-2015, 06:21 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CERS 1 View Post
Crazy!!!!

To me its crazy that the RaceChip or similar piggy back can cause that much damage based on settings that are put into consumers hands. Would these examples have be the result of an ignored CEL over a long period of time?

I mean seriously, if A/F mix is way off or IAT2's are too high, the ECU should be able to retard timing or override settings for preservation purposes. The throw a CEL to call for attention.

I mean that's one way to scare everyone into a $2,500 Dinan tune!
As paicapo said, 42pilot wasn't referring to our specific tunes for causing that issue in those pics. That was from something else. He was just showing you, if you abuse your car too much, it will suffer. Same concept for the human body-- If an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs that increase his metabolism and heart rate to very high levels, his heart will end up working too hard causing a heart attack or some other injury. The point of his post is to say that we should always tread carefully as we tune or do anything that makes the engine/other parts work harder. There is always a safe threshold and then beyond that aside from your driving dynamics, etc.
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      02-03-2015, 06:47 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CERS 1 View Post
Crazy!!!!

To me its crazy that the RaceChip or similar piggy back can cause that much damage based on settings that are put into consumers hands. Would these examples have be the result of an ignored CEL over a long period of time?

I mean seriously, if A/F mix is way off or IAT2's are too high, the ECU should be able to retard timing or override settings for preservation purposes. The throw a CEL to call for attention.

I mean that's one way to scare everyone into a $2,500 Dinan tune!
opasha and paicapo are right - the pictures are not the result of anyone's tune but mine, over the years. The builds - mechanical - were fine and worked well. My intent was to show you what kind of damage can be done, why the damage occurred, and show your vehicle can still run, even with the damage.
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      02-03-2015, 10:02 PM   #101
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AFAIK, no reputable tune companies will create a product that will damage your engine.
Just don't forget the user Factor. We are as the user usually the one that creates the problem by wanting more power for cheap and easy way, which is just cranking up the dial.
42pilot , good examples on the pistons.
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      02-04-2015, 06:21 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by paicapo View Post
I'm sorry but your post is ridiculous and it's how false rumors starts.
Never intended for false rumors to start. Seemed innocuous when I posted it, but perhaps I should have put j/k after the Dinan tune comment. Or perhaps I should have asked if I missed something in the post. I saw the "S1/S2 comment and detonation in the same sentence" and off I went typing.

BTW, I’m awaiting my Race Chip Ultimate for my 50i so I’m certainly not knocking a piggy back tune as far as $:HP ratio's are concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
opasha and paicapo are right - the pictures are not the result of anyone's tune but mine, over the years. The builds - mechanical - were fine and worked well. My intent was to show you what kind of damage can be done, why the damage occurred, and show your vehicle can still run, even with the damage.
I’m glad you posted and that our motors are so resilient. Once I re-read I see you referenced “like S1/S2” not to say that it was S1/S2 settings. My mistake. Whew… needed a flame suit for that one.

Anyway, since you are a SME how much room do the stock parts have for mods? For example, say injector duty?

As I understand it (…and I know I’ll get corrected if I’m wrong) the RaceChip enhances the fuel map as a means to make more power. Even at the aggressive settings, which are placed in the hands of consumers, is there risk/evidence of maxing the duty cycle or running overly rich, etc..?
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      02-04-2015, 08:21 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CERS 1 View Post
Never intended for false rumors to start. Seemed innocuous when I posted it, but perhaps I should have put j/k after the Dinan tune comment. Or perhaps I should have asked if I missed something in the post. I saw the "S1/S2 comment and detonation in the same sentence" and off I went typing.

BTW, I’m awaiting my Race Chip Ultimate for my 50i so I’m certainly not knocking a piggy back tune as far as $:HP ratio's are concerned.



I’m glad you posted and that our motors are so resilient. Once I re-read I see you referenced “like S1/S2” not to say that it was S1/S2 settings. My mistake. Whew… needed a flame suit for that one.

Anyway, since you are a SME how much room do the stock parts have for mods? For example, say injector duty?

As I understand it (…and I know I’ll get corrected if I’m wrong) the RaceChip enhances the fuel map as a means to make more power. Even at the aggressive settings, which are placed in the hands of consumers, is there risk/evidence of maxing the duty cycle or running overly rich, etc..?
How much room do the stock parts have? Good question - I don't know.

RC modifies the signal from the fuel rail to the ECU. The modified signal then tells the injectors when to open (fuel timing) and the amount to inject (volume). I think if you turn up the tune and continually romp on the car, you will eventually damage the engine - purely my opinion. If you own a diesel, be careful about turning up the timing from recommended, as this creates the most stress but also delivers the most torque. Everything in moderation and this is no exception.
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      02-04-2015, 09:46 PM   #104
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Further to 42pilot 's point, the limits are very much quantified. Note that while the cc is the same between 50d and 30/35d, the pistons are a different part number. And, we should not gain comfort from excessively stressing a 30d to achieve 50d results.

http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/parts/info/...6105/appliance" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.etk.cc/bm.../appliance</a>

However, 30d and 40d share common pistons and many other parts. http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/parts/info/...2585/appliance" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.etk.cc/bm.../appliance</a>

Other engine parts are more common among the 30d/40d/ variants:
- same cylinder head housing
- same crankshaft rod

Again don't aim for 50d output. It has many different components: pistons, timing chain, crankshaft, etc. all major components are a different spec for 50d.

Aiming for 40d output from a 30d should also be done with caution, even though the engines are nearly identical as the " how" is different. And while I am not mechanically inclined, I know from experience that "how" always matters in life.
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      02-05-2015, 01:06 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
Further to 42pilot 's point, the limits are very much quantified. Note that while the cc is the same between 50d and 30/35d, the pistons are a different part number. And, we should not gain comfort from excessively stressing a 30d to achieve 50d results.

http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/parts/info/...6105/appliance" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.etk.cc/bm.../appliance</a>

However, 30d and 40d share common pistons and many other parts. http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/parts/info/...2585/appliance" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.etk.cc/bm.../appliance</a>

Other engine parts are more common among the 30d/40d/ variants:
- same cylinder head housing
- same crankshaft rod

Again don't aim for 50d output. It has many different components: pistons, timing chain, crankshaft, etc. all major components are a different spec for 50d.

Aiming for 40d output from a 30d should also be done with caution, even though the engines are nearly identical as the " how" is different. And while I am not mechanically inclined, I know from experience that "how" always matters in life.
Outstanding advice.
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      02-05-2015, 07:02 PM   #106
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I'm so careful I haven't even tried full throttle yet!! I guess I can wait for a while before I install a chip
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      02-05-2015, 08:09 PM   #107
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I took my car to the dealer for service today. So, I removed the chip to take it in and I have to say, the engine without the chip is so much quieter. A bit surprising because of the real audible difference.
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      02-06-2015, 08:24 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I took my car to the dealer for service today. So, I removed the chip to take it in and I have to say, the engine without the chip is so much quieter. A bit surprising because of the real audible difference.
thats TRUE
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      02-06-2015, 10:37 AM   #109
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In following the thread the best I can tell is that 03 is now the best balanced setting. I know others have gone higher but I have lost track. I thought 42Pilot said this setting gives the best balance of performance and economy. Is that still the case?
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      02-06-2015, 01:37 PM   #110
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E2 seems to be the most common setting amounts RC user's here on the forum
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