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      05-24-2017, 09:22 PM   #1
imtheant
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Skeptical of tune/piggyback numbers

Been on here awhile and read lots of threads on Berger, Dinan, RaceChip, etc and remain skeptical about real world numbers. I have a 50i and would love to increase the power but for those of you who have pulled the trigger on a tune/piggback, what kind did you get and can you REALLY notice a difference worth the $$?
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      05-25-2017, 07:25 AM   #2
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i have not seen any dyno plots from any member who installed a tune. unless someone can post before and after factual data it is all "butt-dyno" and in some cases some individuals lost power going with some jb products.
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      05-25-2017, 08:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
i have not seen any dyno plots from any member who installed a tune. unless someone can post before and after factual data it is all "butt-dyno" and in some cases some individuals lost power going with some jb products.
it was here , the guy with RACECHIP on his 35d shows pics and graphs with dyno measurements , after chip he got 299HP on the wheels , before it was 258 on crank .
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      05-25-2017, 08:32 AM   #4
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i have not followed diesel tune posts and threads... i was referring to 50i.
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      05-25-2017, 09:16 AM   #5
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Here is a thread on the X5M which is tuned by Racechip piggyback and results are shown on the Vbox readings

http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...highlight=dyno

As far as the tune itself (racechip)for a 35i ( which I have ) is significant. So significant that I have re-installed it after installing MPPK.
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      05-25-2017, 09:58 AM   #6
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Does anyone have any before/after dyno plots for 50i?
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      05-25-2017, 10:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtheant View Post
Been on here awhile and read lots of threads on Berger, Dinan, RaceChip, etc and remain skeptical about real world numbers. I have a 50i and would love to increase the power but for those of you who have pulled the trigger on a tune/piggback, what kind did you get and can you REALLY notice a difference worth the $$?
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
i have not seen any dyno plots from any member who installed a tune. unless someone can post before and after factual data it is all "butt-dyno" and in some cases some individuals lost power going with some jb products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Does anyone have any before/after dyno plots for 50i?
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Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
My understanding is that it is hard to find a dyno machine that can handle AWD so a dyno is not as common as other RWD cars.
I know the tune thread is long, but there are some acual numbers in there.

For example, here is my post, including dyno numbers. About 50hp and 50ft/lb with a RaceChip Ultimate. And yes, I definitely noticed a difference.
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      05-25-2017, 10:20 AM   #8
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My MPPK install got delayed due to the time required for install - my X5 was an out of the area purchase.

So, could someone give a layman's explanation of the "piggy back" or stacking concept for the chips?

My limited understanding is that BMW (MPPK) or Dinan examine the hardware components and remap the ECU and / or other software components to increase HP / torque. I assume this involves boost timing, boost pressure / tricking the MAF / injector timing / on and on. Those software adjustments are based on the stock engine.

How do the stacked units know how to accommodate another chip's software impact?

A crystal clear question
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      05-25-2017, 10:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Does anyone have any before/after dyno plots for 50i?
My understanding is that it is hard to find a dyno machine that can handle AWD so a dyno is not as common as other RWD cars.
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      05-25-2017, 10:55 AM   #10
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I can refer people to a few in the NJ/NY/CT area.
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      05-25-2017, 12:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
I can refer people to a few in the NJ/NY/CT area.
And I know a shop in the RI / Southeastern MA area.
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      05-30-2017, 07:56 AM   #12
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      05-30-2017, 08:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
My MPPK install got delayed due to the time required for install - my X5 was an out of the area purchase.

So, could someone give a layman's explanation of the "piggy back" or stacking concept for the chips?

My limited understanding is that BMW (MPPK) or Dinan examine the hardware components and remap the ECU and / or other software components to increase HP / torque. I assume this involves boost timing, boost pressure / tricking the MAF / injector timing / on and on. Those software adjustments are based on the stock engine.

How do the stacked units know how to accommodate another chip's software impact?

A crystal clear question
I'll give it a shot.

MPPK is a flash tune by BMW that updates a ton of parameters giving you more power and sportier driving feel as well as more exhaust noise. Nobody really knows exactly what they alter (only bmw knows that) but i'm willing to bet things like boost, timing, fuel trims, transmission shift points all get altered. It is the right way to gain power so to speak. The complete package.

Dinan, Racechip, Burger are all piggyback units that intercept one or two signals and report back to the ecu a lower value than it actually is making so the stock ecu readjust its settings to bump up the boost to make more power. Lets say the car's ecu is looking to see 14psi at this sensor. What the piggyback unit does is say its only making 12 psi so the ecu bumps the boost up another 2 psi so it can see 14 but in reality its making 16psi now. The problem with this is that all of the other parameters are set for 14psi not 16 so some say its risky while others believes the ecu is smart enough to make adjustments based on other sensors to still be safe. I would agree on the later because mildly tuned cars on piggybacks stills shows AFR's being in check and you don't have massive amounts of cars with blown engines considering how many are running these tunes now for years.

Same concept applies when one has MPPK and stacked with another piggyback. The only difference now is your starting point is higher and you are just adding from there.

Alan
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      05-31-2017, 02:20 PM   #14
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Alan - thanks for your response. The explanation is consistent with my very limited understanding and the "stacking" concept is better understood by me.

Dinan advertises that they control all relevant parameters so as to avoid fault codes. Some considerable increases in HP/Torque are generated for around $2k.

OTOH, the BMW MPPK sounds more in line for my wants - reasonable HP/Torque improvements at mid to higher range RPM.

If my wants are much greater than the MPPK I probably should have gone with another V8 - which they aren't and I did not :-)

Thanks again.
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      05-31-2017, 02:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
Alan - thanks for your response. The explanation is consistent with my very limited understanding and the "stacking" concept is better understood by me.

Dinan advertises that they control all relevant parameters so as to avoid fault codes. Some considerable increases in HP/Torque are generated for around $2k.

OTOH, the BMW MPPK sounds more in line for my wants - reasonable HP/Torque improvements at mid to higher range RPM.

If my wants are much greater than the MPPK I probably should have gone with another V8 - which they aren't and I did not :-)

Thanks again.
Alan's explination is pretty good. The only difference I would say is that the Dinan tune is kind of a hybrid. It is a piggyback tune that acts more like a flash tune. Unlike all the other piggybacks which only trick one sensor (MAP or MAF) and lets the car "adjust" on its own, the Dinan unit intercepts a host of sensors/signals and modifies everything required to make the vehicle run its best.

I would do what you already did: start with the MPPK. You can always add a piggyback if you want even more power.
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      05-31-2017, 03:12 PM   #16
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ah yes. Dinan's kit basically T's off right at the main ecu so in theory they can alter whatever they want. From my years of being on this forum Dinan's approach is a double edge sword. It can be the better way to extract power but it also be a lot more complicated to track down issues related to the tune. Typical piggies just alter one or two signals and leave it up to the ecu to alter the rest. Dinan alters more signals and that can sometimes cause a condition that will trigger a fault/CEL because some other sensor doesn't like what its seeing.

MPPK is the way to go on the 35i. If you want more just stack it with the Racechip ultimate to give you all the benefits of the MPPK but with a little extra kick.

Alan
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      06-01-2017, 01:46 PM   #17
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Well, after much deliberation I finally paid our dealer for the software - will take a few days to arrive - should be installed by next week.

I know there is a "decal / sticker" they place under the hood somewhere to alert the techs to a flashed ecu and possibly an emission control requirement. Somewhere I saw some type of MPPK emblem / sticker that goes on behind the front wheels. Not certain I want to add any additional badging but what do they look like and what quality (decal or sticker or emblem) are they - if they really come with the kit?

Thanks
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      06-01-2017, 05:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
Well, after much deliberation I finally paid our dealer for the software - will take a few days to arrive - should be installed by next week.

I know there is a "decal / sticker" they place under the hood somewhere to alert the techs to a flashed ecu and possibly an emission control requirement. Somewhere I saw some type of MPPK emblem / sticker that goes on behind the front wheels. Not certain I want to add any additional badging but what do they look like and what quality (decal or sticker or emblem) are they - if they really come with the kit?

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
Well, after much deliberation I finally paid our dealer for the software - will take a few days to arrive - should be installed by next week.

I know there is a "decal / sticker" they place under the hood somewhere to alert the techs to a flashed ecu and possibly an emission control requirement. Somewhere I saw some type of MPPK emblem / sticker that goes on behind the front wheels. Not certain I want to add any additional badging but what do they look like and what quality (decal or sticker or emblem) are they - if they really come with the kit?

Thanks
Search my posts. I have them installed.
I have a diy instructions on it.
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      06-01-2017, 07:07 PM   #19
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Kzang - found it - what are your thoughts about the durability of the stickers given their location?

Also - thanks for your various responses to my questions. As I approached 900 miles I am pushing the X5 a bit harder ( I do a careful break-in) and am finding it quite powerful - but with a few very minor torque shortages that will disappear as the engine loosens up a bit and the MPPK does its magic.

Remain very impressed so far.....

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      06-02-2017, 07:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
Kzang - found it - what are your thoughts about the durability of the stickers given their location?

Also - thanks for your various responses to my questions. As I approached 900 miles I am pushing the X5 a bit harder ( I do a careful break-in) and am finding it quite powerful - but with a few very minor torque shortages that will disappear as the engine loosens up a bit and the MPPK does its magic.

Remain very impressed so far.....
It's pretty durable.. I put them on last July so it will be almost a year and they are a neat addition to the mods. It is also very subtle.
Originally, I was just curious as to how it would look... then I was going to remove it as it is reversible. but I like how it adds a nice subtle touch.
My X5 isn't your average 300hp/300tq SUV... it has all the Mperformance appearance mods and Engine tune... so I figured why not

Here is one iphone pic

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      06-02-2017, 08:35 AM   #21
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Kzang,

Your comment - "My X5 isn't your average 300hp/300tq SUV..." is quite accurate as I searched through your posts

Subtle I like - most likely will give em a go next week.
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