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      06-25-2013, 07:20 PM   #1
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USA Today: Hefty price increase

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Well the price increase definitely caught USA Today's attention.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...rease/2457107/


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BMW adds hefty price increase to redesigned X5 SUV

BMW redesigned its popular X5 crossover SUV for 2014, and the price tag got the biggest overhaul.

The least-expensive 2014 X5 is $53,725 including shipping – and that's a rear-wheel drive model. The lowest-price 2013 was $48,425, and it was all-wheel drive. That's a 10.9% jump.

The least-expensive 2014 AWD model is $56,025, and that's a 15.7% price hike vs. the 2013 base AWD model. It's just $100 more than the 2013 mid-level model, called Premium.

BMW says it has streamlined the model range, combining all three 2013 six-cylinder AWD versions -- Base, Premium and Sport-Activity Vehicle -- into a single model called X5 xDrive35i. And, it's added the new rear-drive version as a "price leader" even though it's more expensive than last year's entry model.

The 2014 X5, the third generation of the vehicle that got BMW into the SUV business back in 1999, goes on sale in November.

BMW says straight price comparisons aren't fair. The 2014 redesign has made the X5 bigger, lighter and far better equipped, the car company says.

According to BMW data, the 2014 is about 1 inch longer and virtually the same width and height as the 2013, and rides on the same 115.5-in. wheelbase.

It gets a slightly tighter turning circle diameter, 41.6 ft. vs. 42 ft -- though it isn't clear if that's the new rear-drive model. All-wheel-drive vehicles almost always have wider turing circles.

Shoulder width is roughly 2 in. great in the new model even though exterior width hasn't changed much, so some artistic trimming and tucking has gone on inside. Headroom's about the same, BMW stats show.

Weight, cargo space and mileage ratings aren't available.

Now standard, among other features:

•Updated navigation
•Voice commands
•Urgency logarithm, as part of the automatic emergency notification in a crash. It surmises how badly you're hurt from reading various sensors in the car and lets rescuers know.
•Updated power steering
•Automatic start/stop. More and more vehicles have that as a fuel-saver. It shuts off the engine at long stoplights and other times it might not need to be running.

BMW's version has been ill-received because the start-stop rhythm isn't predictable. It might restart the engine for no apparent reason at a stoplight, for example. It's unclear if BMW has improved the operation of that feature.

Oddly enough, on some BMWs it seems to work fine, stopping and restarting when you'd expect, though not without significant vibration.

The V-8 model, xDrive 50i, will start at $69,125, up 6.1%
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      06-26-2013, 08:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Well the price increase definitely caught USA Today's attention.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...rease/2457107/
Not trying to defend BMW, but this article basically says: DO NOT BUY THE NEW X5... maybe paid for by some competitors?
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      06-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #3
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I thought equally-equipped models from 2013 and 2014 would be at very similar price?
Comparing last gen. base model to not-so-base 2014 is kind of silly
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      06-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
I thought equally-equipped models from 2013 and 2014 would be at very similar price?
Comparing last gen. base model to not-so-base 2014 is kind of silly
Agree. Actually the F15 X35D (which is the one I would be looking at for next year) is 100 bucks less and includes more standard features, like the new Nav with touchpad.
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      06-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR1er View Post
Agree. Actually the F15 X35D (which is the one I would be looking at for next year) is 100 bucks less and includes more standard features, like the new Nav with touchpad.
Right, but what if the eco credit goes away? If so then the car went up by 3500-4500 depending on which eco credit you factor into the equation.
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      06-26-2013, 12:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp View Post
Right, but what if the eco credit goes away? If so then the car went up by 3500-4500 depending on which eco credit you factor into the equation.
Not sure if that price considers an eco credit, at least is not mentioned; but even though I think the price is competitive when compared to similar vehicles (Audi Q7 TDI, Mercedes ML350 Bluetec) with similar equipment (adaptive bi-xenon, panoramic sunroof, navigation..) personally I would take the X5 over the other two. Cayenne is another option, but I had to shell almost 70 for a decently optioned (not fully optioned, just decently) CD and even though it drives flawlessly, cabin tech is way behind.
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      06-27-2013, 09:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR1er View Post
Not sure if that price considers an eco credit, at least is not mentioned; but even though I think the price is competitive when compared to similar vehicles (Audi Q7 TDI, Mercedes ML350 Bluetec) with similar equipment (adaptive bi-xenon, panoramic sunroof, navigation..) personally I would take the X5 over the other two. Cayenne is another option, but I had to shell almost 70 for a decently optioned (not fully optioned, just decently) CD and even though it drives flawlessly, cabin tech is way behind.
I am glad I ran into you on this forum. I am at a crossroads... really like the new X5; but the Cayenne is the pinnacle of SUV-dom. Factoring money out of the equation; which do you prefer, Cayenne/ the X5? (kind of a loaded question since the F15 is not out yet, but lets talk F70 for a fairer comparison)
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      06-28-2013, 10:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmPower View Post
I am glad I ran into you on this forum. I am at a crossroads... really like the new X5; but the Cayenne is the pinnacle of SUV-dom. Factoring money out of the equation; which do you prefer, Cayenne/ the X5? (kind of a loaded question since the F15 is not out yet, but lets talk F70 for a fairer comparison)
Not trying to be too ambiguous, but I would say it really depends on what you enjoy the most in a vehicle. Putting aside the fact that these two vehicles are the only real options for me when I think about an SUV (I'm willing to test drive the Range Rover Sport when it comes out in a couple months), The Cayenne drives absolutely flawless, you feel like you are driving a much smaller car; the cabin is truly premium, the materials, the finish... not a single quality flaw and it's very comfortable.

The E70 X5 feels (and in fact is) a lot heavier, but it also drives excellent (mine incl adaptive drive), you get more the feel of a bigger vehicle but you also have more interior room, specially in the second row and the trunk. I personally enjoy the hi tech stuff, even if some are a little too much , and that's something I love about the X5: cameras everywhere, heads-up display, a huge screen, you can control and send some stuff from your phone, just to mention a few. So because of that and assuming that the F15 drives similar to the E70, I would take an X5 (of course loaded with all tech options available)

My recommendation: think about what you really value the most and even after you have that very clear, test drive them both and think about which of those two vehicles you are willing to live with for the next couple years.

Good luck!
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      06-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR1er View Post
Not trying to be too ambiguous, but I would say it really depends on what you enjoy the most in a vehicle. Putting aside the fact that these two vehicles are the only real options for me when I think about an SUV (I'm willing to test drive the Range Rover Sport when it comes out in a couple months), The Cayenne drives absolutely flawless, you feel like you are driving a much smaller car; the cabin is truly premium, the materials, the finish... not a single quality flaw and it's very comfortable.

The E70 X5 feels (and in fact is) a lot heavier, but it also drives excellent (mine incl adaptive drive), you get more the feel of a bigger vehicle but you also have more interior room, specially in the second row and the trunk. I personally enjoy the hi tech stuff, even if some are a little too much , and that's something I love about the X5: cameras everywhere, heads-up display, a huge screen, you can control and send some stuff from your phone, just to mention a few. So because of that and assuming that the F15 drives similar to the E70, I would take an X5 (of course loaded with all tech options available)

My recommendation: think about what you really value the most and even after you have that very clear, test drive them both and think about which of those two vehicles you are willing to live with for the next couple years.

Good luck!
That's what I am afraid of , both have pros and cons.

Two of my friends have Cayennes, one has an 09 S and another just picked up an S hybrid. As for quality, the 2nd gen Cayenne is light years ahead in terms of interior and quality. Unfortunately I have not driven the new one yet but have had considerable amount of seat time in the 09. I really like how it drives.

As for the X5, I have had some seat in the E70 48i. Loved the pick up and the ease to drive but you are right it does feel like a boat (compared to the Cayenne of course).

That being said, I notice you have a Cayenne Diesel. Does it feel 'slow' and what kind of mileage do you get? The reason I ask is that I am leaning towards the diesel myself.

Thanks again for your help!
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      06-28-2013, 09:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR1er View Post
Agree. Actually the F15 X35D (which is the one I would be looking at for next year) is 100 bucks less and includes more standard features, like the new Nav with touchpad.
No way can come in cheaper. If you look at the standard features of
a 14, it still higher than an 13 if someone does not want the now
standard items.

where it will speak is when can actually build one and find out how
much the individual packages have gone up and other options
increase. Auto manufacturers recoup that development cost.
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      06-29-2013, 09:34 AM   #11
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Ultimately you just have to wait for the configuration to come online before judging the price gap.

But the trend has been that all newer models cost more and it's more than just inflation. All new models have moved upscale in both size, feature content and price, hence the introduction of these new subcompact or b-class segments.
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      06-29-2013, 01:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmPower View Post
That's what I am afraid of , both have pros and cons.

Two of my friends have Cayennes, one has an 09 S and another just picked up an S hybrid. As for quality, the 2nd gen Cayenne is light years ahead in terms of interior and quality. Unfortunately I have not driven the new one yet but have had considerable amount of seat time in the 09. I really like how it drives.

As for the X5, I have had some seat in the E70 48i. Loved the pick up and the ease to drive but you are right it does feel like a boat (compared to the Cayenne of course).

That being said, I notice you have a Cayenne Diesel. Does it feel 'slow' and what kind of mileage do you get? The reason I ask is that I am leaning towards the diesel myself.

Thanks again for your help!
You need to drive the new Cayenne to get a real feel... it really moves! I would say there is no lag in the diesel or at least not really noticeable. Response time when you step on it is almost instant even in regular (non-sport) mode. Porsche uses a turbo setup they call VGT (variable geometry turbo), which is the one they say is responsible of eliminating the lag. I drove the X35D before getting the Cayenne and you can really notice the difference.

Mileage is awesome. The Cayenne Diesel is my daily driver and I visit the pump each 3 weeks and it's not like it's parked all the time, I do approx 800 miles per month. Of course you have to pay a prime for getting the diesel which you will probably not recoup if you don't drive a lot, but still I find the Diesel really convenient, specially when you go on long road trips (as I often do) and you get the extra bonus (if you care about that) of polluting a bit less

If Porsche would add more tech stuff to their vehicles, it would be tough to beat them, but that's not their focus.
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      06-29-2013, 01:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texvette View Post
No way can come in cheaper. If you look at the standard features of
a 14, it still higher than an 13 if someone does not want the now
standard items.

where it will speak is when can actually build one and find out how
much the individual packages have gone up and other options
increase. Auto manufacturers recoup that development cost.
Not sure if I'm missing something, but with the announced price, the '14 X35D is $100 less than the '13 and it includes more standard features, at first sight that looks cheaper; but of course I would be the first surprised if a new model will be cheaper than the older, specially in the premium segment. I bet if we strip them both down, the '14 should be more expensive as you say. We definitely have to wait and see when the configurator is up to be able to compare apples to apples.
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      07-01-2013, 06:47 PM   #14
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Like you say if it does come out with more for less. Thumbs up BMW. That is
hardly seen in todays auto world. There is allot of guys on here that will pick
it down and find exactly what went where. Looking forward to the build app.

know the new vette came in close to old price but not many want the base
version. Finding by the time get one opt out it is higher than the C6. Question
being ask is how much better will it be compared to cost of all c7 upgrades
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      07-01-2013, 10:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR1er View Post
You need to drive the new Cayenne to get a real feel... it really moves! I would say there is no lag in the diesel or at least not really noticeable. Response time when you step on it is almost instant even in regular (non-sport) mode. Porsche uses a turbo setup they call VGT (variable geometry turbo), which is the one they say is responsible of eliminating the lag. I drove the X35D before getting the Cayenne and you can really notice the difference.
The E70 35d has the old M57 engine with a dual turbo setup to reduce lag, one small one for lower revs and a larger one for higher revs. It's not a "twin turbo" despite the TwinPower naming that BMW uses. The F15 35d is using a newer N57 engine, which in reality will be more akin to the ROW 30d with added urea injection for US emissions regulations. This engine uses a single variable geometry turbo, and is likely to be similar to the Cayenne in terms of response and (lack of) lag.

I suspect the Cayenne also gets some of its feel from the 8 speed transmission, while the E70 has been "stuck" with a lowly 6 speed. It appears that BMW developed the N57 with the 8 speed transmissions in mind, but there was no practical way to retrofit the old M57. Some have tried to excuse the E70 35d by claiming that it is perfectly matched to the 6 speed, but there is little doubt that 8 speeds are better, and some manufacturers are gearing up for 9 or more!

One area that I haven't seen covered is the noise that the F15 35d will make, as the diesel clatter is often brought up in comparisons with other diesel SUVs. I have had numerous occupants in my 35d who are amazed when I tell them it's a diesel, as most of them associate diesels with heavy duty trucks and clunkers from the 80's. While I don't mind the engine noise, I "get it" that some would prefer it to be as quiet as the MB, VAG, and Fiat competition.
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      07-02-2013, 10:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipSauls View Post
The E70 35d has the old M57 engine with a dual turbo setup to reduce lag, one small one for lower revs and a larger one for higher revs. It's not a "twin turbo" despite the TwinPower naming that BMW uses. The F15 35d is using a newer N57 engine, which in reality will be more akin to the ROW 30d with added urea injection for US emissions regulations. This engine uses a single variable geometry turbo, and is likely to be similar to the Cayenne in terms of response and (lack of) lag.

I suspect the Cayenne also gets some of its feel from the 8 speed transmission, while the E70 has been "stuck" with a lowly 6 speed. It appears that BMW developed the N57 with the 8 speed transmissions in mind, but there was no practical way to retrofit the old M57. Some have tried to excuse the E70 35d by claiming that it is perfectly matched to the 6 speed, but there is little doubt that 8 speeds are better, and some manufacturers are gearing up for 9 or more!

One area that I haven't seen covered is the noise that the F15 35d will make, as the diesel clatter is often brought up in comparisons with other diesel SUVs. I have had numerous occupants in my 35d who are amazed when I tell them it's a diesel, as most of them associate diesels with heavy duty trucks and clunkers from the 80's. While I don't mind the engine noise, I "get it" that some would prefer it to be as quiet as the MB, VAG, and Fiat competition.
Very good points! I also investigated some time ago what that "twinpower turbo" means and found out that it is as you explain: a single turbo with a twin-scroll setup. Nothing wrong about it, but many people interpret it as a twin turbo and surely BMW is very happy about that

The transmission in the Cayenne is also very smooth and changes gears real quick and when driving "normally", it will keep you in the upper gears at relative low speeds, which contributes a lot to very good mileage.

After my previous post it came to my mind that we haven't discussed about the engine noise and the fact that it is also a big difference between the E70 and the Cayenne Diesel. Of all the diesels I have driven, the Cayenne is the quieter (even quieter than the small Mercedes GLK Bluetec). But still I'm looking forward to the F15 x35D and all the gadgets the new X5 brings. As for the engine clatter: that's nothing a good sound system can't solve

Basically the Cayenne is a very solid all around vehicle which has the advantage of it's brand name. To my liking it is missing in the tech part, which is a very important factor for me. But of course, it is impossible to keep 100% of the people 100% happy, so there will always be some kind compromise.
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      07-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #17
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i have a cayenne and love it. 2nd SuV is in the works, either the new mdx or the x5d
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