X5M up in flames

[bjcarls]

Just came back to see the outcome. Dang, never would have guessed that, maybe having to replace the battery every two years is not the best idea.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ns-bmw-n63-v8/
Not a fan ambulance chasers but it seems like one would like to tackle this.

[jjt4806]

These new cars may have a common fire issue
Not sure what brand this car is, but she is lucky to be alive
http://q13fox.com/2017/01/22/body-ca...m-burning-car/

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by jjt4806

These new cars may have a common fire issue
Not sure what brand this car is, but she is lucky to be alive
http://q13fox.com/2017/01/22/body-ca...m-burning-car/

Yeah I have read that. Pretty crazy if you ask me.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by bjcarls

Just came back to see the outcome. Dang, never would have guessed that, maybe having to replace the battery every two years is not the best idea.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ns-bmw-n63-v8/
Not a fan ambulance chasers but it seems like one would like to tackle this.

I am still battling it without a lawyer as of yet. They settled on the car portion however the insurance took 4 months to do that. Medical is still outstanding. Just want this to be over with.

[Neuera09]

Hang in there brother. Start researching for a good attorney to represent you. Better be safe and prepared. You know they are doing the same to protect themselves. Good luck man.

[vince7870]

Originally Posted by heat'n'cool

I am still battling it without a lawyer as of yet. They settled on the car portion however the insurance took 4 months to do that. Medical is still outstanding. Just want this to be over with.

damn bro, you need a better lawyer......that dealership would be part mine!


love the sig now: porsche cayenne! get to searching for a vicious injury lawyer. BMW is still responsible for the dealership as well!

[ajob]

Originally Posted by vince7870

damn bro, you need a better lawyer......that dealership would be part mine!


love the sig now: porsche cayenne! get to searching for a vicious injury lawyer. BMW is still responsible for the dealership as well!

So, if the lawyer (a lot) and you (a little) manage to collect an outlandish settlement, we all then have the pleasure to pay our next car a little more.

[secretariat]

ajob, what would you suggest the OP do about this? Nothing, he has medical bills and probably sucked in an enormous amount of toxic gases because of his panicked situation. What would you do?

[vince7870]

Originally Posted by ajob

So, if the lawyer (a lot) and you (a little) manage to collect an outlandish settlement, we all then have the pleasure to pay our next car a little more.

stupidest comment I've ever seen! why did he have to wait so long for car settlement .....the dealer insurance should've settled and then dealt with his insurance,,,,,,and i don't even think they should've paid....in the end the probably won't. if he's injured he's entitled to compensation. and it won't effect the cost of our cars, they have insurance for these circumstances.

[ajob]

You're right, my comment looks stupid as I was too concise.

Here is what I mean.

In my view, there is a private and a public interest in this case.

The private interest is the OP's one: he risked death in an electrical fire, lost his car, likely injured his lungs, has additional losses and is clearly entitled to compensation by the responsible parties - if these do not respond to his claims, legal action is certainly needed to redress - I assume there is no disagreement until here.

The public interest has two aspects - an obvious first one is to understand what happened and correct the causes so as to prevent its repetition - until today, as far as I know, another loose battery connection may trap any of us inside a locked burning X5 M and I find this irresponsible if it's due to a door locking mechanism that can and should be corrected.

The second public interest - which caused my short "stupid" message - is about the cost of the legal action needed to compensate the OP if his claims remain unsatisfied.

I read "...you need a better lawyer ... that dealership would be part mine!": well, everybody's entitled to his opinion, and mine is that this "predatory lawyer's" approach goes far beyond seeking an obvious compensation for damages.

It may be due to different US vs European litigation practices, but eventually this leads to:

1. about the same compensation for the victim;

2. a much higher revenue for the lawyer, and

3. a correspondingly higher insurance cost for the dealer and possibly BMW - a cost, like all others, to be paid by the customers - simply meaning that our future cars will cost more to no advantage to the OP and others in his position.

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by ajob

You're right, my comment looks stupid as I was too concise.

Here is what I mean.

In my view, there is a private and a public interest in this case.

The private interest is the OP's one: he risked death in an electrical fire, lost his car, likely injured his lungs, has additional losses and is clearly entitled to compensation by the responsible parties - if these do not respond to his claims, legal action is certainly needed to redress - I assume there is no disagreement until here.

The public interest has two aspects - an obvious first one is to understand what happened and correct the causes so as to prevent its repetition - until today, as far as I know, another loose battery connection may trap any of us inside a locked burning X5 M and I find this irresponsible if it's due to a door locking mechanism that can and should be corrected.

The second public interest - which caused my short "stupid" message - is about the cost of the legal action needed to compensate the OP if his claims remain unsatisfied.

I read "...you need a better lawyer ... that dealership would be part mine!": well, everybody's entitled to his opinion, and mine is that this "predatory lawyer's" approach goes far beyond seeking an obvious compensation for damages.

It may be due to different US vs European litigation practices, but eventually this leads to:

1. about the same compensation for the victim;

2. a much higher revenue for the lawyer, and

3. a correspondingly higher insurance cost for the dealer and possibly BMW - a cost, like all others, to be paid by the customers - simply meaning that our future cars will cost more to no advantage to the OP and others in his position.

One major flaw with your assumption on this.

The dealership is a franchise and not a part of BMW NA or BMW GMBH so if/when the lawyers get compensation it will be dealership (franchise partners/sole owner) take the brunt and the full costs as it was their technicians negligence. So this will only impact that dealer and will not in anyway impact BMW and there will be no price increase in BMW product to cover the cost of the legals. So yeah your thoughts are fundamentally flawed.

Really hope the OP gets something sorted as it obviously has had great impact on his and his families lives and yes the dealer who's technicians negligence caused this should be accountable.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by RENT-A-GOAT

One major flaw with your assumption on this.

The dealership is a franchise and not a part of BMW NA or BMW GMBH so if/when the lawyers get compensation it will be dealership (franchise partners/sole owner) take the brunt and the full costs as it was their technicians negligence. So this will only impact that dealer and will not in anyway impact BMW and there will be no price increase in BMW product to cover the cost of the legals. So yeah your thoughts are fundamentally flawed.

Really hope the OP gets something sorted as it obviously has had great impact on his and his families lives and yes the dealer who's technicians negligence caused this should be accountable.

You are correct in you assumptions on who will be responsible. This had nothing to do with BMW NA. IT was because of the negligence of the dealership, who within hours of it happening fired their employee. I have settled on the car and am now rejecting their 5k offer for injuries.. Pretty much an insult. I have 3 years to get my health sorted and settle.

It's quite funny. All i wanted in the beginning was to cover medical costs and have the car paid for. Unfortunately the dealership tried to cover their @ss's and even worse their insurance agency is a hassle to deal with. I will take my time, make sure I feel a 100% and if I need I will hire a Lawyer.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by vince7870

damn bro, you need a better lawyer......that dealership would be part mine!


love the sig now: porsche cayenne! get to searching for a vicious injury lawyer. BMW is still responsible for the dealership as well!

No lawyer yet. Would rather not go that route.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by ajob

So, if the lawyer (a lot) and you (a little) manage to collect an outlandish settlement, we all then have the pleasure to pay our next car a little more.

I don't get your logic ajob BMW NA isn't responsible. The dealership has taken full responsibility. It was due to their technician's negligence. This will not change anything in the price of your next car. I would be more worried about price hikes due to inflation..

[m5james]

I asked before, but do you know where the vehicle went after all this?

[ajob]

Originally Posted by heat'n'cool

I don't get your logic ajob BMW NA isn't responsible. The dealership has taken full responsibility. It was due to their technician's negligence. This will not change anything in the price of your next car. I would be more worried about price hikes due to inflation..

Apologies for my previous lack of clarity and for my boring insistence, but I respectfully disagree.

Whether the dealer or BMWNA may finally pay for OP's damages is irrelevant - both are (or should!) be insured for their liabilities, premiums for the dealer's or BMWNA's insurance will rise accordingly and the final cost of our future cars will reflect this - and all this looks very fair to me.

What looks less fair to me - and that was my original argument - is the case where an aggressive lawyer carves out a large damage payment but pockets the largest part of it, to no benefit to the OP but with a higher public cost as described above.

I admire OP's restraint towards litigation - you know where you start but not where you end - but if the dealer can't pay, on a "deep pocket" principle the jury may be inclined to escalate to BMWNA on a design flaw basis.

After all, at least to me it does not look so obvious that our cars should easily start a fire just because of a loose battery connection - really not.

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by ajob

Apologies for my previous lack of clarity and for my boring insistence, but I respectfully disagree.

Whether the dealer or BMWNA may finally pay for OP's damages is irrelevant - both are (or should!) be insured for their liabilities, premiums for the dealer's or BMWNA's insurance will rise accordingly and the final cost of our future cars will reflect this - and all this looks very fair to me.

What looks less fair to me - and that was my original argument - is the case where an aggressive lawyer carves out a large damage payment but pockets the largest part of it, to no benefit to the OP but with a higher public cost as described above.

I admire OP's restraint towards litigation - you know where you start but not where you end - but if the dealer can't pay, on a "deep pocket" principle the jury may be inclined to escalate to BMWNA on a design flaw basis.

After all, at least to me it does not look so obvious that our cars should easily start a fire just because of a loose battery connection - really not.

How many times THIS PROBLEM AND CLAIM WILL NOT BE PUTTING THE PRICE OF YOUR NEXT BMW UP. IT IS A FRANCHISED DEALER AT FAULT THEY ARE NEGLIGENT THEY CAUSED THE ISSUE. NOT BMW AND NOT BMW DESIGN, it's like if you put your fingers in a socket is it the socket manufacturers fault your a twat no it's not so it's the same as the dealership not replacing a battery correctly which caused this issue. Jeez man you are one dumb ass!!!!!

[balasa0731]

The only thing will increase is the dealership insurance rate

[ajob]

RENT-A-GOAT, please take another look.

This is a serious issue, the OP risked death and suffered health and material damages.

We all seem to agree that the primary cause is a fire and smoke caused by a loose battery connection not correctly tightened by the dealer's technician.

Now please consider the following aspects, which are more connected with the design by BMW than with the dealer's negligence:

1. Loose battery connections are not rare events, but fires caused by loose battery connections are, to my knowledge, quite rare. Was the fire caused in this case completely unforeseeable, or was it facilitated by the design choices of this specific setup? In a normal "loose battery connection" situation, the OP's car would have just stopped, but in this case the car caught fire. Why? Is the resulting fire only the dealer's fault and bad luck?

2. Once the car caught fire and filled with smoke, the OP suffered material damages but still had no health injuries. These then happened because he could not immediately exit the car in a normal way, by operating the door opening handle - he managed to do so only after electrical power somehow returned. In my opinion (but I may be wrong!) the dealer has no responsibility for the fire-related health injuries - I'm afraid only the door opening design is at fault.

I'm not a lawyer, so these are only speculations, not conclusions.

But they start from legitimate concerns, because OP's car was the same as mine and something similar may happen again unless understood and corrected.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by ajob

RENT-A-GOAT, please take another look.

This is a serious issue, the OP risked death and suffered health and material damages.

We all seem to agree that the primary cause is a fire and smoke caused by a loose battery connection not correctly tightened by the dealer's technician.

Now please consider the following aspects, which are more connected with the design by BMW than with the dealer's negligence:

1. Loose battery connections are not rare events, but fires caused by loose battery connections are, to my knowledge, quite rare. Was the fire caused in this case completely unforeseeable, or was it facilitated by the design choices of this specific setup? In a normal "loose battery connection" situation, the OP's car would have just stopped, but in this case the car caught fire. Why? Is the resulting fire only the dealer's fault and bad luck?

2. Once the car caught fire and filled with smoke, the OP suffered material damages but still had no health injuries. These then happened because he could not immediately exit the car in a normal way, by operating the door opening handle - he managed to do so only after electrical power somehow returned. In my opinion (but I may be wrong!) the dealer has no responsibility for the fire-related health injuries - I'm afraid only the door opening design is at fault.

I'm not a lawyer, so these are only speculations, not conclusions.

But they start from legitimate concerns, because OP's car was the same as mine and something similar may happen again unless understood and corrected.

I understand your perspective here, however, I respectfully disagree. This wasn't just a lost battery connection. It was the negative terminal which wasn't even tightened. Typically a "lose" terminal won't arch. Imagine jumping your car and putting "red" or positive connection on first then putting on the negative. If you hold the negative near the connection it will arch. However if you are just lose but touching it won't. It was an error by the dealership which has insurance for this purpose. I know ownership (slime bag) of this dealership and he has enough money to pay out of pocket if he has to. Good thing he has plenty of insurance. This is not a defective unit from BMW NA.

Yes the car caught fire and then filled with smoke. Because it was an electrical fire it shorted the primary power source. (they have two batteries) the secondary came on after trying for about a minute to get out. You go ahead and try to locate, pull and get out of a burning car. Easy to say it was my error however it was not. I was trying like a mad man. Thought i would die in the car.

If you are more worried about your next car price so be it. No problem. Good luck there and I hope it goes well for you and that nothing like this ever happens to anyone.

These are not speculations, they are fact, what happened, they have admitted guilt, BMW NA was present at the investigation and the dealership took 100% responsibility. NO you are not a lawyer... thank god.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by balasa0731

The only thing will increase is the dealership insurance rate

this is the only thing that will happen. Other then the dealership being under review for BMW NA for negligence.

[heat'n'cool]

Originally Posted by m5james

I asked before, but do you know where the vehicle went after all this?

The dealership to it to one of those "let me buy for cheep and fix or part it out kind of places" somewhere in Tacoma, Seattle area.