X5 diesel tune.

[GTAbimmerowner]

Does the diesel tune have any impact on the longevity of the engine? And for those that have installed the tune, what affect, if any, have you noticed on fuel economy?

I drive A LOT for work - about 50,000 kms/year. I'd love to have the added power but am concerned about any wear and tear.

Would I be better to wait for a diesel Dinan? (or will this even occur)

Another concern for me is insurance. Could an insurer deny coverage if you were in an accident and they found this device installed on the vehicle?

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by GTAbimmerowner

Does the diesel tune have any impact on the longevity of the engine? And for those that have installed the tune, what affect, if any, have you noticed on fuel economy?

I drive A LOT for work - about 50,000 kms/year. I'd love to have the added power but am concerned about any wear and tear.

Would I be better to wait for a diesel Dinan? (or will this even occur)

Another concern for me is insurance. Could an insurer deny coverage if you were in an accident and they found this device installed on the vehicle?

Why would it if it simply bumps up the boost, which 40d and 50d is already running in stock form with the same exact block.

Fuel economy is hard to figure out because with the increased power and torque my foot became much heavier all of a sudden. Drivability wise, it drives like stock and I am seeing a mixed of 26.3 mpg right now in the US.

Now sure about your last question, but people here wreck twin turbo Lamborghinis and have no issues with insurance coverage.

[greentrbo95gst]

I dont know about everyone else here, but I cant stop flooring it because the new gained torque feels so good. My MPG's are suffering.

[SpeedN8]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

I dont know about everyone else here, but I cant stop flooring it because the new gained torque feels so good. My MPG's are suffering.

What are you getting for MPG? Does it feel like it's in Sport Mode all the time?

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by SpeedN8

What are you getting for MPG? Does it feel like it's in Sport Mode all the time?

Down to 24. All I use is comfort because the tune makes a huge difference.

[SpeedN8]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Down to 24. All I use is comfort because the tune makes a huge difference.

I'm just curious if I typically drive in Sport Mode, would I feel a difference having the tune. Does it do pretty much the same thing?

[Overtaxed]

Originally Posted by SpeedN8

I'm just curious if I typically drive in Sport Mode, would I feel a difference having the tune. Does it do pretty much the same thing?

The simple answer, No, they do different things. Sport mode changes shift points (lets the engine rev longer) and some other things about the car, but does not, AFAIK, have any impact on horsepower/torque. It certainly doesn't allow the car to go beyond the rated HP.

Tunes like this work by dumping more air/fuel into the engine, making more HP. They don't mess with suspension or throttle/shift points at all.

The 2 are complementary, not exclusive. A tune like this will typically make a bigger difference in the feel of the car than sport mode, sometimes dramatically so.

[SpeedN8]

Originally Posted by Overtaxed

The simple answer, No, they do different things. Sport mode changes shift points (lets the engine rev longer) and some other things about the car, but does not, AFAIK, have any impact on horsepower/torque. It certainly doesn't allow the car to go beyond the rated HP.

Tunes like this work by dumping more air/fuel into the engine, making more HP. They don't mess with suspension or throttle/shift points at all.

The 2 are complementary, not exclusive. A tune like this will typically make a bigger difference in the feel of the car than sport mode, sometimes dramatically so.

Thanks for the explanation. So....are you putting it on your new ride? I've been apprehensive. My tune is still sitting in the box. :/

[Overtaxed]

Originally Posted by SpeedN8

Thanks for the explanation. So....are you putting it on your new ride? I've been apprehensive. My tune is still sitting in the box. :/

My truck only has about 100 miles on it. I'm going to give it to about 1000 and then re-evaluate.

If I had to put money on it, I'd put it on "yes", I'll be putting it on my truck. Not many places you can get 50+ HP for a few hundred dollars, especially not on a luxury car. It's too tempting. Especially when you know that BMW has a factory option on this truck that has WAY more HP on it (the 50d) telling me that the block/tranny/engine internals can take the additional force without issue. That's always the worry when you start to add HP, what "else" is going to break. This truck is already capable of handling 450+HP and 500+Ft/lbs of tourque. So I don't think there's nearly as much risk as there is in say, tuning a Corvette where things are already on the "breaking point".

Take it out of the box and install it..

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Here you go
http://dtmhaus.net/racrultu.html

Use code racechips

You just cost me +$500 today....

[greentrbo95gst]

Lol, wait till you drive the car.....

[Jackson]

Another concern for me is insurance. Could an insurer deny coverage if you were in an accident and they found this device installed on the vehicle?

I would say in all probability your insurer will take an off cover position if you have this device installed and you didn't tell them. It's called Material Change in the Risk.

[Overtaxed]

Originally Posted by Jackson

Another concern for me is insurance. Could an insurer deny coverage if you were in an accident and they found this device installed on the vehicle?

I would say in all probability your insurer will take an off cover position if you have this device installed and you didn't tell them. It's called Material Change in the Risk.

In the US, no way. You can supercharge your car after the fact, up the boost on turbos; even change the whole engine and it won't cause coverage to be denied. The only thing is that you may not be able to get to pay for them to replace your racechip, turbos, supercharger if the car is destroyed and you don't tell them ahead of time.

Car insurance in the US, once written, is pretty much binding no matter what you do. If you take your truck, rip out the engine, put in a V10 with 2000 HP and then drive it drunk and run 15 people over, they are still going to have to pay. You'll probably never get insurance again, but they won't be able to deny coverage, even if you were negligent or, in this case, obtained the insurance through omission of information.

My insurance company, FWIW (State Farm) never even asks about modifications. If you heavily modified a car (especially if it had a low value) and you wanted it covered properly, you should tell them (and probably get a stated value policy). But, in any case, from a liability and damage to the non-add on parts, you'd be covered.

[Jackson]

That may be the case in Florida but don't try it in Ontario or you'll be screwed.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Why would it if it simply bumps up the boost, which 40d and 50d is already running in stock form with the same exact block.

Fuel economy is hard to figure out because with the increased power and torque my foot became much heavier all of a sudden. Drivability wise, it drives like stock and I am seeing a mixed of 26.3 mpg right now in the US.

Now sure about your last question, but people here wreck twin turbo Lamborghinis and have no issues with insurance coverage.

I just bought this tune and since there is a 14 day trial, I am going to try to figure out what they are doing. It is not a matter of just turning up the boost. And if it is, we are all being screwed since this is one SIMPLE component to the tune.

I suspect that the piggy-back chip changes the fueling (fuel timing) to get the torque up and the boost to help with HP. These two strategies, if not following the 40d mapping correctly, can shorten the life of your motor for sure. Even though a diesel needs heat to work, too much heat (by injecting fuel too soon or too late during the compression cycle, then adding a couple of PSI on the boost) will kill a diesel quick.

You can only compare 35d motor with the 40d and not the 50d since that motor has different internals to handle the power and power application. For example, turbo, injectors (size), valve timing, head stud size, oil cooler and radiator cooler size, etc. The 35d seems to be a de-tuned 40d motor, but in reality that makes no sense. Why do it? Especially in a country (US) where HP is the rage. Yes, they are the same displacement, compression ratio and both are made on the same assembly line in Austria, but the fact is we don't know the real details. Can it be as simple as a tune?

Dinan might eventually make a tune for the X5, but I don't think there is a big enough group of X5 35d owners in the US, who would fork over +$2000 cash for a tune that would have to be installed by a dealer or authorized shop. If they do, then Dinan has a lot of faith in the motor and a lot of faith in the US public buying a BMW diesel SUV, because of the development costs. If they haven't done it yet, I wouldn't hold my breath. I used to take me a couple of months to tune a car from scratch because you had to take into consideration everything - cold engine, cool engine, hot engine, altitude, RPM, boost, fueling, and on and on.

Anyway, when I install it, I am going to TRY to look at parameters like oil and water temps as well as EGT temps through the OBD port. If these move from stock levels, I will probably send it back. I bought the car (not lease) and I need it to last a long time.

[Terp335]

42pilot, like me I bet a lot of others will be extremely interested in what you find. I plan on buying a 35d soon and see this as an easy way to step up performance.

[Overtaxed]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

You can only compare 35d motor with the 40d and not the 50d since that motor has different internals to handle the power and power application. For example, turbo, injectors (size), valve timing, head stud size, oil cooler and radiator cooler size, etc. The 35d seems to be a de-tuned 40d motor, but in reality that makes no sense. Why do it? Especially in a country (US) where HP is the rage. Yes, they are the same displacement, compression ratio and both are made on the same assembly line in Austria, but the fact is we don't know the real details. Can it be as simple as a tune?

If I had to guess (and I do, because, I don't know!), the 35D is probably a detuned 40D for one of 3 reasons:

1) Emissions (the 40D wouldn't pass some test)
2) Fuel consumption (BMW figures the stated MPG figures are what sells diesel in the US, and want to make sure they show a nice high number)
3) BMW plans to introduce a 40D in the US at some point in the future and needs "room" in the line to charge more for it.

Yes, it could be as simple as tune. There have been lots of cases where a "detuned" XYZ engine makes its way into a much less desirable car with different HP numbers that can be "retuned" to the original specs without much effort. Now, I'm sure that BMW doesn't just drop a RaceChip in a 30D in Europe and call it a 40D, they do it with the onboard computer.

Engines are shockingly simple devices. Dump more fuel and air in and "bang" bigger HP/torque. If the 30D engine and 40D engine are structurally identical, the difference in HP is simply there more fuel/air going into the engine, simple as that.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by Overtaxed

If I had to guess (and I do, because, I don't know!), the 35D is probably a detuned 40D for one of 3 reasons:

1) Emissions (the 40D wouldn't pass some test)
2) Fuel consumption (BMW figures the stated MPG figures are what sells diesel in the US, and want to make sure they show a nice high number)
3) BMW plans to introduce a 40D in the US at some point in the future and needs "room" in the line to charge more for it.

Yes, it could be as simple as tune. There have been lots of cases where a "detuned" XYZ engine makes its way into a much less desirable car with different HP numbers that can be "retuned" to the original specs without much effort. Now, I'm sure that BMW doesn't just drop a RaceChip in a 30D in Europe and call it a 40D, they do it with the onboard computer.

Engines are shockingly simple devices. Dump more fuel and air in and "bang" bigger HP/torque. If the 30D engine and 40D engine are structurally identical, the difference in HP is simply there more fuel/air going into the engine, simple as that.

I can possibly see the emissions, but Europe has much higher standards than we do. For example, their diesel fuel is still much cleaner than ours. But i agree this could be key.

As for your comment, "engines are shockingly simple devices" is simply untrue these days. For the past 11 years, I was a Porsche motor builder (hot rodder actually), so I think I am qualified to comment here. I'm also a vendor to BMW in SC and can see first-hand from a macro point of view how complex these vehicles and motors really are. I don't get to see what goes into the motors though.

For example, I don't think BMW engineers will leave 76 hp on the table (as this chip claims it gains) if there wasn't a good reason - reliability, safety, etc. When I was building motors, I would have a customer bring me their turbo motor and ask for 100 more hp. This normally cost between $8,000 and $10,000 in parts just because the engine was not designed for the additional power. And each 10 additional HP could cost as much as another $5000 - $8000 depending on the intended use. Remember, everything on a motor is inter-dependent.

Since BMW makes big profits, you can bet they don't put 40d and 50d parts in a 35d motor. The more HP, the higher quality parts to take the stress. I understand BMW uses a common platform manufacturing model, but internal engine components are different - cam profile (VERY important and there are dozens of profiles to chose from), turbo (compressor and turbine size - again, dozens of profiles to chose), injector size (even though an injector can provide x-amount of fuel flow does not mean it is operating efficiently - they have sweet spots where they will run a long time or wear out in a short amount of time), exhaust diameter and catalytic placement, piston profile (compression ratio is the same, but different fueling strategies - timing and volumes - call for different profiles, such as domed, etc) and on and on.

Now take all the physical properties of the motor, and add the software. I've been in Munich when three engineers returned from a 6 hour day of focusing on one part of the tune - city driving on a 0 degree C day - on a 3 series. They had to take into consideration inlet air temp, oil temp, water temp, manifold air temp, manifold pressure, fuel delivery, air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, RPM, throttle position, cam timing, exhaust gas temp, fuel temp, and so on. This was 18 man-hours just driving

To give you an idea about tuning, it would take me a couple of months to correctly tune a motor that had drivability, performance and reliability. Remember, every time you start the car, you only have one opportunity to tune the start for most of that day taking into consideration timing, fuel, corrections for cold temp/engine, fuel decay, and so on. And each day is different, not to mention fuels are different. Tuning a race motor (like drag racing) is hundreds of times easier than a family car that sees all temps, altitudes, fuel quality, etc.

My point is, these cars and their power plants are incredibly complex. We think they are simple because they work unbelievably well under so many different conditions. But it's because so much work has gone into the design and engineering, anticipating so many different conditions. I would bet the cumulative man-hours that have gone into the design, engineering and testing of these vehicles (not just the power plant) are in the hundreds of thousands. Now you know why these things are so expensive - it's not really the materials, it's the engineering and testing that went into them. This is why BMW only changes model designs every 5 - 7 years or so.

So, who are we (the internet community) to think we can apply our uninformed opinions to this technology and assume we can buy a $600 box that will magically add 76 HP (or an unbelievable 30% more over stock)? This is where I have a problem and I want to test it.

[Mathme]

42pilot...please test as I've been following this thread closely and I'm curious about your findings. I'd be interested in adding this chip to my x5, but I bought it and also don't want to install anything that will cause me a headache in 5-6 years.

[42pilot]

To be clear, I am only going to be able to look at the results of the tune.

For example, if I can measure the most important parameters, AND they remain constant or similar to the stock tune, then I would say it's golden.

However, if temps rise (oil, water, exhaust), and fuel consumption increases (in normal driving), all we can infer is that more stress is being put on the engine. We do not know the normal operating limits of the engine.

However, if I can measure EGT, and the EGT rises to +1550 degrees, that's a big problem for me and this tune will be sent back. It tells me the tune is simply throwing fuel in earlier and that's worthless without more air (turbo) - or maybe the turbo is too small to keep up. It will confirm that the 40d and 35d are configured differently (injectors, turbo) and this tune will shorten the life of the motor.

I'm also going to do the obvious call to the mfg of the tune and ask them the strategy of the tune. They don't need to tell me their tuning secrets, I just need to know the strategy behind the tune. I also want to see the dyno chart proving the increase. This will tell me what to expect such as peak HP and when does torque (the most important part of this equation) peak and how does it trail.

Let's see...

[Gilly1964]

Am I missing something obvious here but I would have thought that most of the difference in power output could be explained by the fact that the 30D (35D in the US) has one turbo, the 40D has two and the M50d has three?

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by Gilly1964

Am I missing something obvious here but I would have thought that most of the difference in power output could be explained by the fact that the 30D (35D in the US) has one turbo, the 40D has two and the M50d has three?

The use of multiple turbos is to eliminate turbo lag. My 550i had two turbos - one for each side of the V8. They were very small turbo's but I had full torque at 1700 rpm compared to my Porsche that only had full torque at 5100 rpm. That's why I say these are very complex machines.

To answer your question, on a diesel, you need to force air in the combustion chamber (diesels do not provide vacuum like gassers, therefore no butterfly valve) and you need injectors to dump fuel. The 3 key components are: cam timing (when to open/close the valves), fuel timing (when to inject fuel during the compression cycle - 20, 25, 30, etc degrees before top dead center??) and boost (how much). The number of turbo's dictate the characteristics of the power and not the total HP. For example, I can install one large turbo that produces more HP than 3 of the turbos on the 50d. But, those three turbo's are engineered to provide torque and HP right off idle because there is no turbo lag (engine characteristic). Therefore, off the line, the 50d kills my theoretical motor with a bigger turbo and bigger HP because it takes 3,000 rpm to get the turbo spooled up to provide the needed HP and torque.

But that's what I am getting at with this tune. There are physical differences in the motors which suggests to me the 35d is not detuned. It sounds like it is perfectly tuned with all it's accessories and parts. So, how is the tune getting 30% more power out of an optimized engine?

I bought the Dinan tune for my 550i about four months ago. I took it home for the weekend and drove it around normally to check drivability. The tune advertised +100 hp and +125 lb ft torque - that's huge. Then, I nailed the accelerator to the floor and omg. In fact, I could feel the car twist under me. It wasn't acceleration, it was violence. I called Dinan and spoke to the tech and he said, yep, that's what it's supposed to do. And I asked, how long does the engine, tranny and rear-end last with all this additional power. He said he didn't know, but it would be fun until something failed.

I removed the tune the next day.