Expected Reliability

[wjbender]

Consumer reports is showing the BMW X5 with less than average reliability. What's up with this? From reading the forum, I didn't see all that many issues reported. This is my first BMW (other than a 2002 ti) in recent years and I am expecting good reliabilty. Any thoughts on that?

[Hook3m1rish]

Also interested in this. Noticed that the "true cost to own" this vehicle is higher than Mercedes ML and Audi Q7. I wonder if that is because of less than average reliability?

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by Hook3m1rish

Also interested in this. Noticed that the "true cost to own" this vehicle is higher than Mercedes ML and Audi Q7. I wonder if that is because of less than average reliability?

I looked for six months for an SUv for 6 months and really liked the Cayenne, and X5. finally picked the X5, but the Cayenne is listed an BETTER than average reliability.

I am not sure there is even enough data yet to make a judgement on the F15, and the issues most often mentioned here are:

Soft close doors popping open
Rattles
Door seal failures

These all seem like early production items that are probably fixed by now

I ordered Air suspension (part of adaptive M option) I can only imagine what it would cost to fix that if it failed. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I made the right choice going with the X5 over the Cayenne.

[turbotoy4me]

Originally Posted by wjbender

I looked for six months for an SUv for 6 months and really liked the Cayenne, and X5. finally picked the X5, but the Cayenne is listed an BETTER than average reliability.

I am not sure there is even enough data yet to make a judgement on the F15, and the issues most often mentioned here are:

Soft close doors popping open
Rattles
Door seal failures

These all seem like early production items that are probably fixed by now

I ordered Air suspension (part of adaptive M option) I can only imagine what it would cost to fix that if it failed. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I made the right choice going with the X5 over the Cayenne.

+1.
I also ordered adaptive M suspension and will get the extended warranty in 4 years!

[MysticBlue]

At least 60% of all statistics are made up. The other half are probably inaccurate
There are a lot of variables that go into claims of reliability. One thing to keep in mind, the more complex a car is, and the more tech there is, the more stuff there is to go wrong. BMW's design, engineering, and manufacturing processes may be superior to General Motors, for instance, but if there are literally a thousand more parts that go into a BMW, overall, there will be a higher number of "problems". Also, expectations of the owner come into play. A small imperfection may be overlooked or not even noticed by a GM owner. That same imperfection may not be acceptable to someone who is inclined to spend more on a car. I don't pay much attention to the statistical differences of reported reliablility. It all comes down to luck. I've been lucky. 2K miles on my 50i and not one single, solitary problem of any kind. I'm kind of amazed really, given the complexity of all the new tech that is imbedded in virtually every part of car. But if I do have a problem, I know BMW will take care of it, and give me a loaner while they do it. I know that's not everyone's experience, but forums tend to attract perfectionists, and problems are discussed more than non-problems, so if you just went by what you saw on forums, you would think there are all kinds of problems. That's true of any vehicle. So just to counter all the negativity, let me repeat... I have not had one single identifiable problem. Not with the car, not with the service, not with the buying and delivery process. Nothing.

[Mathme]

6k miles and only one incident where the diesel threw a CEL. I don't consider this a problem as that's why we have a warranty and these vehicles are complex machines and are allowed a couple of items to be fixed...that is after all why there's a warranty on a new car.

I also am coming back to BMW from owning a Porsche Cayenne. In six years of ownership with that car, it only had one warranty issue while still under warranty. It was a very reliable and trustworthy car. My main complaint about the Porsche is that every time it went into the shop it cost at least $350 in maintenance. Change the spark plugs: 700; change the battery (it's located under the driver seat and needs a cherry picker to life it out of there) 400; brakes 1000 per axle. You get the point.

When shopping I seriously considered anothe cayenne, however decided on the x5 because the electronics are much better, maintenance is included for the first four years and the total cost of a comparably equipped Cayenne at the time was about $20k more.

[originalgoods13]

7,000 miles here without a single issue on my xDrive35i

The second post is bang-on about any vehicle in general.

We do have 4 year 50k maintenance warranty so you should not worry

As far as long term, any vehicle sold this decade will have some kind of issue whether it is a Honda or BMW

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

At least 60% of all statistics are made up. The other half are probably inaccurate
There are a lot of variables that go into claims of reliability. One thing to keep in mind, the more complex a car is, and the more tech there is, the more stuff there is to go wrong. BMW's design, engineering, and manufacturing processes may be superior to General Motors, for instance, but if there are literally a thousand more parts that go into a BMW, overall, there will be a higher number of "problems". Also, expectations of the owner come into play. A small imperfection may be overlooked or not even noticed by a GM owner. That same imperfection may not be acceptable to someone who is inclined to spend more on a car. I don't pay much attention to the statistical differences of reported reliablility. It all comes down to luck. I've been lucky. 2K miles on my 50i and not one single, solitary problem of any kind. I'm kind of amazed really, given the complexity of all the new tech that is imbedded in virtually every part of car. But if I do have a problem, I know BMW will take care of it, and give me a loaner while they do it. I know that's not everyone's experience, but forums tend to attract perfectionists, and problems are discussed more than non-problems, so if you just went by what you saw on forums, you would think there are all kinds of problems. That's true of any vehicle. So just to counter all the negativity, let me repeat... I have not had one single identifiable problem. Not with the car, not with the service, not with the buying and delivery process. Nothing.

I on the other hand have had CEL, rattle in hatch and parts have fallen off the rear hatch assembly within the first 1000 miles.

For the amount of money I spent on this vehicle, I would appreciate it if BMW would either: 1. work out all the bugs first or at least improve quality in SC or 2. not make the car so complex that the embedded tech fails or basic parts fall off. It appears that BMW's engineering processes are not superior to anyone with the problems they've had on this complex model but on the other hand I don't own any other SUV's to compare.

If I were given the opportunity to buy an SUV again, I am not sure I would buy this one again. I think there might be better values out there in other manufacturers. My primary problem is complexity and once this thing is out of warranty, the costs to keep it maintained will be extremely high for the utility I get out of it. Fortunately, I am fairly mechanically inclined so some costs can be contained to a certain degree.

At the same time, here is what I really like about the car: handling, quiet interior, can cruise at 80mph all day and get over 30mpg, I can be in heavy city traffic and get 27mpg, attractive, very torquey motor, fit and finish very good (except for leather seats). Was this worth the cost? Not really.

The real tell for me will be the resale value. If it drops like my 550i did, I will not be a BMW customer again.

[Wobbles]

I've been very lucky with my BMWs - then again, they only have less that 25,000km on their respective clocks after 4 years & coming up to 3 years respectively, and with regards to the the X5, after 2 months of ownership, I haven't even broken through the "first 2000km" mark yet. So, I guess it could just be a case of me under utilizing the cars more than me being lucky...

[5tony]

Coming from two previous BMWs with the V8 engines, be prepared for coolant and oil leaks. Just check the e70 boards and you'll see what I mean. These cars drive great, but after 60K miles, the gaskets just fall apart way too early for a premium vehicle. These leaks aren't covered by the BMW extended warranties and cost a couple thousand to fix. I've had Acuras with no leaks well over 120K miles, yet my e70 started leaking around 90K.
BTW, this time I ordered my F15 with the inline 6. I'll take my chances with injectors and wastegate rattles instead.

[SDRX]

The f15 will be my 4th BMW in 10 yrs... Kept all of them until at least 50k miles and current f10 has done 71k.

No reliability problems and where stuff has failed BMW have been quick to sort it - fair and square.

I would never keep a car like an F15 M50d out of warranty , will definitely extend .

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by Mathme

6k miles and only one incident where the diesel threw a CEL. I don't consider this a problem as that's why we have a warranty and these vehicles are complex machines and are allowed a couple of items to be fixed...that is after all why there's a warranty on a new car.

I also am coming back to BMW from owning a Porsche Cayenne. In six years of ownership with that car, it only had one warranty issue while still under warranty. It was a very reliable and trustworthy car. My main complaint about the Porsche is that every time it went into the shop it cost at least $350 in maintenance. Change the spark plugs: 700; change the battery (it's located under the driver seat and needs a cherry picker to life it out of there) 400; brakes 1000 per axle. You get the point.

When shopping I seriously considered anothe cayenne, however decided on the x5 because the electronics are much better, maintenance is included for the first four years and the total cost of a comparably equipped Cayenne at the time was about $20k more.

My experience with Porsche was simular - very reliable troublefree. the Cayenne was my first choice, but was swayed by my spouse who loved the BMW. Both are great vehicles and I could have gone either way. Now this is my first BMW in many years and I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for decent reliability. I am capable of performing minor repairs and routine maintenance like brake jobs and oil changes. I do plan to keep this for about 6 -7 years so I'll get the extended warranty.