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      01-23-2022, 09:41 AM   #1
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Another Oil Question

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Has anyone done a recent oil service at their dealership? Reason i'm asking is i recently did self change and wanted to send a sample in to Blackstone for analysis. When i was doing my slip, it asks for the current oil that was drained, so i looked at my last invoice from the dealer, and put in the oil part number, which was listed as:

83215a42d32

which pulled up LL17FE 0w20!!!!!

I have an email into the SA to confirm whether this was actually put in to the vehicle or just a generic service entry into the invoice system. Obviously this seems wrong, and i will circle back asap. But curious if anyone else had seen the same? Thanks
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      01-23-2022, 10:54 AM   #2
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Why do you say “obviously this seems wrong”? What oil type is listed in your owners manual…or the sticker in the engine bay?

EDIT: used incorrect tables for oil recommendations. The S63 recommendations are for LL-04 & LL-2 FE. TIS table for these oil recommendations is my post later in this thread {post #11}. Sorry for the confusion.
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      01-23-2022, 11:15 AM   #3
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Maybe BMW went to W20 to bump a bit of CAFE ratings.
But, I WOULD NOT run that in my S63 and actually any BMW.
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      01-23-2022, 12:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Maybe BMW went to W20 to bump a bit of CAFE ratings.
But, I WOULD NOT run that in my S63 and actually any BMW.
I've read tons of comments from you and everyone on here. Can you tell me 1 oil that you would most suggest? I was dead set on Liqui moly, but after reading some of your comments I've settled on Castrol 0W-30.
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      01-23-2022, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Why do you say “obviously this seems wrong”? What oil type is listed in your owners manual…or the sticker in the engine bay?

BMW usually uses a 20w oil on the M engines. Don’t you have the S63 engine? If yes, it probably has several recommendations that probably include an LL-14 FE and/or LL-17 FE (fuel efficient) oil.iu

If LL-14 FE & LL-17 FE oils are some of the recommendations for your engine model…then the dealership was not incorrect in using an 0w-20 viscosity oil. This is not to say that other oil viscosities can be used…but you’re not limited to only one oil viscosity.



Have never heard anyone recommend this oil for an S63 engine which is the whole point of me asking. Manual and engine bay states 0w30 as preferred fill. Attached is the recommendation from TIS for any BMW engine.
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      01-23-2022, 01:12 PM   #6
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Red Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
I've read tons of comments from you and everyone on here. Can you tell me 1 oil that you would most suggest? I was dead set on Liqui moly, but after reading some of your comments I've settled on Castrol 0W-30.
Apparently Red Line is not BMW approved. But after a ton of research and banter in this forum and others online, looking at OEM, Castrol, Pennzoil, Motul, Liqui Moly, etc. I settled on Red Line potentially being the best overall solution.

Relative to 100 degree viscosity, HTHS, Noack rating... Their 0w30 is strong and they represent it as an LL01-FE alternative to be used where 5w30 is recommended. It has a nice flow (11.7), on par Noack (9), and a solid HTHS (3.4). https://www.redlineoil.com/0w30-motor-oil

Their 5w30 is incredible. It has nice flow (11.9), very low Noack (6.0), and a strong HTHS (3.7). They represent it as an LL01 alternative with a film thicker than a 10w40. https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil
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      01-23-2022, 01:16 PM   #7
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NO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Why do you say “obviously this seems wrong”? What oil type is listed in your owners manual…or the sticker in the engine bay?

BMW usually uses a 20w oil on the M engines. Don’t you have the S63 engine? If yes, it probably has several recommendations that probably include an LL-14 FE and/or LL-17 FE (fuel efficient) oil.

If LL-14 FE & LL-17 FE oils are some of the recommendations for your engine model…then the dealership was not incorrect in using an 0w-20 viscosity oil. This is not to say that other oil viscosities can be used…but you’re not limited to only one oil viscosity.



My M specifies LL01-FE only. In multiple places printed and online. Under the hood it specifies 0w30.

Where other people have flexibility is going with thicker oil, not thinner oil. In that case they can run LL01.

0w20 has never been discussed for our Ms with the S63 in all of the reading I've done on this forum and others about oil.
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      01-23-2022, 03:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue By You View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
I've read tons of comments from you and everyone on here. Can you tell me 1 oil that you would most suggest? I was dead set on Liqui moly, but after reading some of your comments I've settled on Castrol 0W-30.
Apparently Red Line is not BMW approved. But after a ton of research and banter in this forum and others online, looking at OEM, Castrol, Pennzoil, Motul, Liqui Moly, etc. I settled on Red Line potentially being the best overall solution.

Relative to 100 degree viscosity, HTHS, Noack rating... Their 0w30 is strong and they represent it as an LL01-FE alternative to be used where 5w30 is recommended. It has a nice flow (11.7), on par Noack (9), and a solid HTHS (3.4). https://www.redlineoil.com/0w30-motor-oil

Their 5w30 is incredible. It has nice flow (11.9), very low Noack (6.0), and a strong HTHS (3.7). They represent it as an LL01 alternative with a film thicker than a 10w40. https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil
Again, Redline is good oil if vehicle sees track use.
Problem with Redline is high oxidation. It is geared toward extremely high temperatures and track use.
But for people who use car as daily, even if car is pushed hard, there are better oils.
It is not all about Noack. Solubility of oil, cleaning at lower temperatures etc.
Any LL01 (approved, not recommended) will cut it.
But, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 are IMO top choices.
But in the end of the day ANY LL01 oil in your local wal mart is excellent choice.
If out of warranty, top pick is Castrol Edge 0W40. Change it every 5-7.5k, call it a day.
Mobil1 0W40 is another excellent choice but I would go Castrol just bcs. has bit lower SAPS.
That is it. Just bcs. it is M model doesn't mean you have to get track oil. Track or race oils are good choice ONLY if car actually sees track.
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      01-23-2022, 03:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Maybe BMW went to W20 to bump a bit of CAFE ratings.
But, I WOULD NOT run that in my S63 and actually any BMW.
I've read tons of comments from you and everyone on here. Can you tell me 1 oil that you would most suggest? I was dead set on Liqui moly, but after reading some of your comments I've settled on Castrol 0W-30.
Castrol Edge 0W30 would be my top pick, but as I found out personally few days ago, it is pretty much impossible to find it. Amazon had it out of stock.
Castrol 0W40 is out of warranty. Change it every 5k and call it a day.
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      01-23-2022, 03:49 PM   #10
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I just changed mine out with Castrol Edge 5W30 and a Fram oil filter. I'm out of warranty. I change every 7000kms.

It's just like everything else; suggested and recommended may not always be what's best for your engine.

It may be a partnership or BMW trying to eeeek another MPG out of their platform.

Same goes with the gear oils.
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      01-23-2022, 03:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8202632 View Post
Have never heard anyone recommend this oil for an S63 engine which is the whole point of me asking. Manual and engine bay states 0w30 as preferred fill. Attached is the recommendation from TIS for any BMW engine.
I stand corrected…the PDF you linked was what I was looking for. The S63 oil recommendations are for LL-04 & LL-12 FE.




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      01-23-2022, 07:03 PM   #12
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Red Line Professional Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Again, Redline is good oil if vehicle sees track use.
Problem with Redline is high oxidation. It is geared toward extremely high temperatures and track use.
But for people who use car as daily, even if car is pushed hard, there are better oils.
It is not all about Noack. Solubility of oil, cleaning at lower temperatures etc.
Any LL01 (approved, not recommended) will cut it.
But, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 are IMO top choices.
But in the end of the day ANY LL01 oil in your local wal mart is excellent choice.
If out of warranty, top pick is Castrol Edge 0W40. Change it every 5-7.5k, call it a day.
Mobil1 0W40 is another excellent choice but I would go Castrol just bcs. has bit lower SAPS.
That is it. Just bcs. it is M model doesn't mean you have to get track oil. Track or race oils are good choice ONLY if car actually sees track.
I stand corrected... I just realized that they have OE approvals too. Their Professional Series 5w40 is LL01 approved. But there are better oils, probably most if not all of the ones you and I have been discussing.

I trust your knowledge of oils. You taught me a lot! I still think the Red Line oil is pretty special after reading about its detergency and oxidation resistance. Seems like they have addressed some of the issues you've been mentioning.

Even if those other things were an issue, I change my oil no less than every 5K miles. I will be tracking my M too, so we'll see.
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      01-23-2022, 07:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue By You View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Again, Redline is good oil if vehicle sees track use.
Problem with Redline is high oxidation. It is geared toward extremely high temperatures and track use.
But for people who use car as daily, even if car is pushed hard, there are better oils.
It is not all about Noack. Solubility of oil, cleaning at lower temperatures etc.
Any LL01 (approved, not recommended) will cut it.
But, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 are IMO top choices.
But in the end of the day ANY LL01 oil in your local wal mart is excellent choice.
If out of warranty, top pick is Castrol Edge 0W40. Change it every 5-7.5k, call it a day.
Mobil1 0W40 is another excellent choice but I would go Castrol just bcs. has bit lower SAPS.
That is it. Just bcs. it is M model doesn't mean you have to get track oil. Track or race oils are good choice ONLY if car actually sees track.
I stand corrected... I just realized that they have OE approvals too. Their Professional Series 5w40 is LL01 approved. But there are better oils, probably most if not all of the ones you and I have been discussing.

I trust your knowledge of oils. You taught me a lot! I still think the Red Line oil is pretty special after reading about its detergency and oxidation resistance. Seems like they have addressed some of the issues you've been mentioning.

Even if those other things were an issue, I change my oil no less than every 5K miles. I will be tracking my M too, so we'll see.
Their professional series is repackaged Phillips 66 Kendall oil. They charge it like it is actual Redline oil.
Redline came up with new line recently. Not sure is it available yet. They now majority using PAO not Esters. That is probably to address oxidation issues.
Redline can claim whatever they want. But they are by definition highly acidic oils due to compound. How new line does it, is yet to be seen. Testing usually shows redline being by far most oxidizing oil. But that is OK for what is made for (in this track oil segment Motul is by far best product. Somehow they use ton of Ester and still have oxidation under control). Don't get me wrong, I have their stuff in my gearbox in BMW, in transfer case and rear differential in my minivan, but engine wise, I would not run them on daily basis unless that involves track days. For DD you really want regular oil. A lot of oil blenders will tell you that even for occasional track days regular oils are best.
But, if you still go Redline, absolutely do UOA with TAN measurement after 5k.
Also, Redline tends to show high wear numbers in first few UOA. Be aware of that and don't panic .
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      01-23-2022, 07:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8202632 View Post
Have never heard anyone recommend this oil for an S63 engine which is the whole point of me asking. Manual and engine bay states 0w30 as preferred fill. Attached is the recommendation from TIS for any BMW engine.
I stand corrected…the PDF you linked was what I was looking for. The S63 oil recommendations are for LL-04 & LL-12 FE.




As far as I see that is for Japanese and South Korean market.
BMW never recommended (long story) LL04 for gasoline engines in North America.
Also, look at the language. It indicates Shell not Pennzoil. Also Shell is not supplier anymore but Castrol.
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      01-23-2022, 09:57 PM   #15
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I see a lot of folks talking about "what does it say in your engine bay"… but shouldn't all of the S63s in the F85 use the same oil?
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      01-24-2022, 06:32 AM   #16
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Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
I see a lot of folks talking about "what does it say in your engine bay"… but shouldn't all of the S63s in the F85 use the same oil?
As far as I've seen online with people here and in other forums, in the U.S., the standard is 0w30 under the hood. As an alternative, per the owner's manual, some people can run LL01 which opens up options.

My F85 specifies LL01-FE only, in the paper manual, online manual, and in the onboard computer.

That's why I like the idea of Red Line 0w30. It's thin like OEM (listed as LL01-FE alternative) but protects better since it has a better HTHS. The other ones that edycol recommends are great too, I especially like the Motuls he recommends.

Last edited by Blue By You; 01-24-2022 at 06:52 AM..
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      01-24-2022, 08:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
As far as I see that is for Japanese and South Korean market.
BMW never recommended (long story) LL04 for gasoline engines in North America.
Also, look at the language. It indicates Shell not Pennzoil. Also Shell is not supplier anymore but Castrol.
Correct again...the small print is a must read for LL-04 & LL-12 FE.

But unless the contract ended early...I thought Shell was still the oil provider for BMW until the end of 2022:
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      01-24-2022, 01:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
As far as I see that is for Japanese and South Korean market.
BMW never recommended (long story) LL04 for gasoline engines in North America.
Also, look at the language. It indicates Shell not Pennzoil. Also Shell is not supplier anymore but Castrol.
Correct again...the small print is a must read for LL-04 & LL-12 FE.

But unless the contract ended early...I thought Shell was still the oil provider for BMW until the end of 2022:
Not in North America. It says Europe and Middle East.
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      01-24-2022, 02:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Not in North America. It says Europe and Middle East.
Edycol...perhaps it's time for me to retire!

You're right...Castrol is back as the belle of the ball in regards to BMW NA:
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      01-24-2022, 06:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Not in North America. It says Europe and Middle East.
Edycol...perhaps it's time for me to retire!

You're right...Castrol is back as the belle of the ball in regards to BMW NA:
But, it is interesting that they only dropped SOPUS here. Probably logistics.
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      01-25-2022, 08:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
But, it is interesting that they only dropped SOPUS here. Probably logistics.
Yes it is interesting...I wonder who will be the oil supplier for Europe/Middle East/Africa when that contract ends at the end of 2022? And what about Central & South America?
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      01-25-2022, 07:38 PM   #22
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so i emailed my SA this:

"Quick question for you. Looking at my last invoice, was looking at the part number for my last oil fill: 83215a42d32, which pulls up 0w20 LL17FE. Is this the new recommend fill for the S63B44T2? Just trying to get clarification on what the factory is recommending now for the engine. Everywhere I look, it’s showing 0w30 BMW TT oil. Thanks"

To which he responded:

"Yes, they have changed and that's the new oil."

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