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View Poll Results: Your choice
No Line 11 8.21%
xLine 30 22.39%
Luxury 20 14.93%
MSport 73 54.48%
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      08-28-2014, 01:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
This is the part I don't get, every trim has "sport" AT, M sport just has an extra mode in Sport +. Are you saying sport + is so different from sport mode?
OK, now I see where the confusion is coming from… The "Sport mode" is on all models, yes. But the Sport Auto Transmission is not the same thing as just putting a standard 8AT in Sport mode. The Sport Auto has different software programming for faster shifts (and smoother, from what I've seen). The mechanical parts are the same, but the way they're programmed to work is different. In terms of the option codes when you build/order a car, they are different options, not just different driving modes.

So you have:

8AT - eco, comfort, sport
SAT - eco, comfort, sport, sport +

BUT, in those modes the programming is not the same from 8AT to SAT. Both are adjustable, but the software is completely different in the Sport Auto than the standard 8AT. It's not just about adding in Sport +. For example, an x-line in "Sport" will not shift as fast nor as smooth as the Sport Auto in Sport Mode.

Here's the verbiage from the bmwusa site on sport auto. The parts I put in bold are really what's different from the standard 8AT, since that too obviously has 8 gears..:

8-Speed Sport Automatic Transmission
Provides extremely fast synchronized shifting. By increasing the number of gears to eight, the transmission provides a more efficient shifting sequence and improved fuel economy. Includes Adaptive Transmission Control (ATC) with Sport and Manual shift modes and steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters. When in Sport mode, shifts can be generated via the console-mounted shift lever or the paddle shifters. The close spacing of the gear ratios of the optional 8-speed sport automatic transmission enables maximum use of the optimum rev range, significantly lowering fuel consumption and enhancing shift comfort.

Last edited by chrisny; 08-28-2014 at 01:47 PM..
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      08-28-2014, 01:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
I have driven both M sport and non M sport 35d/50i, I can safely say they are are both exactly the same except for the sport + mode which isn't available in other trim.

In my opinion, you have to like give me more than sport + to qualify as performance upgrade. Shift paddle and sport auto shift are basically the same thing. Sucks that adaptive suspension is an extra option. Even on the 35i/35d sport seats are for comfort and really have nothing to do with performance. This topic has been previous discussed here. http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=883030

Don't get me wrong, I like M sport and have been torn on the issue for a very long time. The price difference is very minimal on 50i between the trims, just to point out there is very little "driving/performance" difference M sport offers.

Karthik, the look of exterior/interior = cosmetic thank you.
I haven't said that it is not cosmetic, but it just looks awesome Welcome.

If you don't care about cosmetic stuff, why get X5 only, why not X3 or X6 !! Its just because you love the appearance & performance. Appearance does contribute some percentage of your likes and it differs from person to person.
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      08-28-2014, 01:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik View Post
I haven't said that it is not cosmetic, but it just looks awesome Welcome.

If you don't care about cosmetic stuff, why get X5 only, why not X3 or X6 !! Its just because you love the appearance & performance. Appearance does contribute some percentage of your likes and it differs from person to person.
Yea to me xLine looks just as good with contrast of color vs M sport. So the cosmetic is really subjective to individuals, hence the discussion is really about whether there is performance difference between the trims.

As for sport auto shifts faster than regular auto when both in sport mode, I am not so sure about that as it's really speculative atm. It would tip me to get M sport instead however if true. That "enhances shift comfort" makes no performance difference in my book. When both auto in sport mode the difference is minimal and off the line the car is just as fast.
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      08-28-2014, 01:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
Yea to me xLine looks just as good with contrast of color vs M sport. So the cosmetic is really subjective to individuals, hence the discussion is really about whether there is performance difference between the trims.

As for sport auto shifts faster than regular auto when both in sport mode, I am not so sure about that as it's really speculative atm. It would tip me to get M sport instead however if true.
Awesome, we are now on the same page. Remember we are just providing info for new members and also for users who are getting ready to buy the vehicle.

Take it easy !!
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      08-28-2014, 01:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
Yea to me xLine looks just as good with contrast of color vs M sport. So the cosmetic is really subjective to individuals, hence the discussion is really about whether there is performance difference between the trims.

As for sport auto shifts faster than regular auto when both in sport mode, I am not so sure about that as it's really speculative atm. It would tip me to get M sport instead however if true.
Lol, it's not speculative. I just updated my previous post with BMW's own documentation. Here's a link if you think I just wrote that myself. Click on "8 speed sport automatic transmission.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...rformance.aspx
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      08-28-2014, 01:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Lol, it's not speculative. I just updated my previous post with BMW's own documentation. Here's a link if you think I just wrote that myself. Click on "8 speed sport automatic transmission.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...rformance.aspx
You replied too fast, lol I haven't finished editing my post yet. I guess we have too much time at work!
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      08-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik View Post
Awesome, we are now on the same page. Remember we are just providing info for new members and also for users who are getting ready to buy the vehicle.

Take it easy !!
For sure X5 Looks great with all the trims actually. Choices suck!
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      08-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
That "enhances shift comfort" makes no performance difference in my book. When both auto in sport mode the difference is minimal and off the line the car is just as fast.
It's not the same off the line. Not drastic, but sport auto is quicker. And I assume the "shift comfort" is the part where it shifts more smoothly. Major performance difference, no. Like I keep saying, I'm not saying any of this is a major performance difference. But the transmission is smoother and the two are night and day. First F15 I drove was a 35i M sport and it felt quick and smooth, like my 335 (not as fast obviously, but still similar transmission feel). Second was a 35i x-line and it wasn't nearly as smooth nor did it feel as quick off the line, or have as immediate power when changing lanes on the highway, despite having the same exact engine. Is the performance difference enough to make anyone jump up and down? No. If the 35i isn't powerful enough, you get a 50i, not a sport auto. But the sport auto is absolutely smoother and at least slightly quicker.

Look, at the end of the day, the 8AT is a phenomenal transmission. The Sport Auto is the same thing, with enhanced programming to be even better. I don't get why they separate them, the Sport is smoother not just quicker, so I don't get why that wouldn't just be standard (who doesn't like smoother shifts…).

Last edited by chrisny; 08-28-2014 at 02:03 PM..
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      08-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
You replied too fast, lol I haven't finished editing my post yet. I guess we have too much time at work!
Lol. or not enough focus on a thursday afternoon in my case.
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      08-28-2014, 02:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Except it's not. And I assume the "shift comfort" is the part where it shifts more smoothly. Performance difference, no. Like I keep saying, I'm not saying any of this is a major performance difference. But the transmission is smoother and the two are night and day. First F15 I drove was a 35i M sport and it felt quick and smooth, like my 335 (not as fast obviously, but still similar transmission). Second was a 35i x-line and it wasn't' nearly as smooth nor did it feel as quick off the line, or as immediate power when changing lanes on the highway. Is the performance difference enough to make anyone jump up and down? No. If the 35i isn't powerful enough, you get a 50i, not a sport auto. But the sport auto is absolutely smoother and at least slightly quicker.
I drove both version of 50i and to me there is very little difference (or no difference) with both in Sport mode. Car and driver tested 50i with xLine at blistering 4.3 to 60, that's plenty fast and I doubt sport auto is "slightly" faster.
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      08-28-2014, 02:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cy07 View Post
I drove both version of 50i and to me there is very little difference (or no difference) with both in Sport mode. Car and driver tested 50i with xLine at blistering 4.3 to 60, that's plenty fast and I doubt sport auto is "slightly" faster.
Agree to disagree I guess. I felt a big difference in how smooth it was on the 35i, and the x-line felt just a little sluggish in comparison. That could well have been because the shifts were not as smooth, could be just felt a tiny bit slower because the shifts were noticeably rougher. Not saying the 8AT is rough, but the sport is just that smooth. But as much as I felt like procrastinating, my time is up, not going to continue trying to convince someone who won't concede even the possibility of just a slight difference. I could argue that a slight difference in the speed is not always noticeable to all, that such a difference would be expected to be even less noticeable with the bigger, faster engine, but who would listen?

Last edited by chrisny; 08-28-2014 at 02:55 PM..
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      08-28-2014, 03:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Agree to disagree I guess. I felt a big difference in how smooth it was on the 35i, and the x-line felt just a little sluggish in comparison. That could well have been because the shifts were not as smooth, could be just felt a tiny bit slower because the shifts were noticeably rougher. Not saying the 8AT is rough, but the sport is just that smooth. But as much as I felt like procrastinating, my time is up, not going to continue trying to convince someone who won't concede even the possibility of just a slight difference. I could argue that a slight difference in the speed is not always noticeable to all, that such a difference would be expected to be even less noticeable with the bigger, faster engine, but who would listen?
Always a little tricky when it comes down to how it feels without tangible numbers. Your input is always appreciated.
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      08-28-2014, 03:06 PM   #35
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Another source:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...nsmission.html

"Sporty ambitions? Experience maximum dynamics, efficiency and driving comfort with the optional 8-speed Sport automatic transmission: its short shift times improve acceleration and aid sporty driving. The gentle gradation of the eight gears reduces the engine's rev interval between shifts, so the transmission process is barely noticeable. At the same time, the engine is always held at the rev level at which it can optimally utilise its strength – increasing dynamics and efficiency and reducing the noise level. The eighth gear reduces the number of revolutions at high speeds, tangibly increasing comfort while reducing fuel consumption and emissions."

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you also get launch control with SAT?
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      08-28-2014, 05:00 PM   #36
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Although as much as I liked the M Sport package, I went with xLine xDrive35i for economical and practical reasons:

-Less painted surfaces on fender, bumper cover, and side means less maintenance (less time and worry on washing, waxing, rock chips, scrapes, road rash, etc.)
-Saved $4,000 + $5,600 (M Sport Package requires Premium Package in Canada)
-19" All season tires, quite good for where I live all-season long, incl. winter
-Cheaper to replace 19"s
-Comfortable highway driving with regular suspension and 19" wheels
-Kids terrorizing the interior, much prefer standard interior with sport steering wheel
-Running boards for the kids, elderly
-Added 3rd Row seat for the "in law" visits

Last edited by originalgoods13; 09-02-2014 at 10:17 PM..
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      08-29-2014, 07:36 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haris
Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you also get launch control with SAT?
Yes, you do. Good point. Another thing I don't actually use, but some do, and certainly aimed at improving performance off the line.
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      08-29-2014, 02:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by originalgoods13 View Post
Although as much as I liked the M Sport package, I went with xLine xDrive35i for economical and practical reasons:

-Less painted surfaces on fender, bumper cover, and side means less maintenance (less time and worry on washing, waxing, rock chips, scrapes, road rash, etc.)
-Saved $4,500 (M Sport package price in Canada)
-19" All season tires, quite good for where I live all-season long, incl. winter
-Cheaper to replace 19"s
-Comfortable highway driving with regular suspension and 19" wheels
-Kids terrorizing the interior, much prefer standard interior with sport steering wheel
-Running boards for the kids, elderly
-Added 3rd Row seat for the "in law" visits
Some of this will vary by country too.. In the US, M Sport comes with 19's with all-season tires unless you upgrade to the 20's. M sport is $4500 here, but the X-line is 2500, so savings would really only be 2000. And you can add the 3rd row to an M sport (again, at least in the US you can).
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      08-29-2014, 07:19 PM   #39
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I am going to have to go with the a Luxury line. I like the painted fenders compared to the X-line, and I don't care for the big fake intakes on the M sport. I will be ordering the 35d, so have no need for paddle shifters or the sport auto on what is essentially a 5000+ lb family hauler. For those that make the argument about the M sport shifting faster, having the paddle shifters, etc I think it is a moot point because at the end of the day you would still get walked by any decent sport sedan, probably even by a 528i with the turbo 4. Plus how much faster will you get to 60 with the sport auto? 0.1s? It's not like it's adding 100hp to the mix. Anyhow, carry on.
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      08-30-2014, 10:35 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiM3 View Post
I am going to have to go with the a Luxury line. I like the painted fenders compared to the X-line, and I don't care for the big fake intakes on the M sport. I will be ordering the 35d, so have no need for paddle shifters or the sport auto on what is essentially a 5000+ lb family hauler. For those that make the argument about the M sport shifting faster, having the paddle shifters, etc I think it is a moot point because at the end of the day you would still get walked by any decent sport sedan, probably even by a 528i with the turbo 4. Plus how much faster will you get to 60 with the sport auto? 0.1s? It's not like it's adding 100hp to the mix. Anyhow, carry on.
Come on now. Stop throwing cold water on the dreams of xDrive35i drivers with the MSport option dusting 458s off the line. Little do they know that an Accord V6 will kill them off the line.

By the way, great points.
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      08-30-2014, 03:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKDFW View Post
Come on now. Stop throwing cold water on the dreams of xDrive35i drivers with the MSport option dusting 458s off the line. Little do they know that an Accord V6 will kill them off the line.

By the way, great points.

Honda what??? you gotta be joking buddy, if you want to brag about your souped up Honda Accord from 98 take it to M3/M4 forums.
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      08-30-2014, 11:40 PM   #42
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I am going to go with xLine but I actually plan to cancel running boards and get the matching chrome lower trim/(accent?) it actually makes the xLine look more rugged, like fake sliders on the sides compared to body colored (plasticy) ones on Luxury line.
Otherwise I like the fact that luxury line gets the wheel arches painted, but that's where the attractiveness ends.
Also xLine looks great with jet black which is no cost paint vs all others (where are my reds and blues?)

Question: When I switch between luxury and xline and base model, I see no difference to the steering wheel, what is all this sport steering wheel that I hear?
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      08-30-2014, 11:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horn View Post
Question: When I switch between luxury and xline and base model, I see no difference to the steering wheel, what is all this sport steering wheel that I hear?
That is the sport wheel. In 2015, that is now standard.
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      08-30-2014, 11:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTSG View Post
That is the sport wheel. In 2015, that is now standard.
I see, what threw me off was that it wasn't listed in Luxury description on build site while it was for xLine. Now I realize why the 2014 F15 I test drove had a skinny wheel, I guess that was the stock wheel. Thanks.
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