BMW X5 and X6 Forum 2014-Current
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-14-2018, 08:28 PM   #45
oduli81
Second Lieutenant
337
Rep
239
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M3
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bronx, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 M4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbmando View Post
Looking for some input. Sold my 2011 M3 last year and I’m in the market for a new car. I’ve narrowed it down (I think) to a new Grand Sport or GT350. This will be my second/weekend car so no need for rear seats.

I test drove a new Grand Sport and loved the low end torque, which the m3 lacked. I have not driven a GT350, but just some thoughts...

Grand Sport:
Subjectively, in my opinion, slightly better looking
Has more low rpm torque
Is smaller
Is lighter

Gt350:
Similar in nature to my e90 m3
Loves to rev like my m3
More hp, but weighs more
Bigger
Lack of low rpm torque

I’m not locked into these two cars as my only options, but both are at the very top. Sat in a Camaro ZL1 and it felt massive. It would be great to lose some lbs. compared to my m3.

Please get the gt350.
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2018, 11:53 PM   #46
RM7
Brigadier General
RM7's Avatar
2870
Rep
3,445
Posts

Drives: Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Saying the GT350 is just a Mustang, is like saying the M3 is just a 320i. They are both based on predestrian cars. Ironically after their perspective brand tuners get a hold of either car, the GT350 ends up being the better performing car.
I would say "kind of".

What is really going on at Ford is hard to understand. It always seems like they are about a "generation behind" what Chevrolet is doing. When the GT350 came out, it appeared to be aimed at the old ZL-1, and of course for a car at the end of it's life-cycle, it wasn't too hard to best that, but right away the new Camaro SS was far beyond the stock Mustang GT and the 1LE that came out shortly thereafter is faster than the GT350 and matches the GT350R in many cases, all this with a backseat and creature comforts. You can't even mention the current ZL-1 or ZL-1 1LE in the same sentence, since those are so far beyond the capability of the GT350, and we haven't even started talking about Corvettes. It's not that the GT350 and R are "bad", it's just that they are more what Ford should have been offering as the "halo" Mustang back in 2011, and now you have SS 1LEs, ZL-1 1LEs, Z06s, Grand Sports, and so on, with massive amounts of performance and drive-ability, all engineered to be the "total car", in terms of suspension, engine, components, etc.

Of course, Ford is doing things like hot-hatches and kind of running the show with the Raptor, and I'm sure there's a lot more money to be made in trucks and SUVs, so Ford is smart to put the money where it will pay off, but on the other hand, they don't really appear to leverage their engineering, know-how and production for performance cars very much. At the most, they seem to lag far behind for all-around performance, somewhere in the "middle-ground" between the straight-line performance of Chrysler/Dodge and what Chevy is doing, but Chevy is doing it all with straight line and handling, so it kind of leaves Ford in a "no-man's land".

I did look fairly hard at the GT350s, but I couldn't justify the price for what you get performance-wise. Again, I think Mustangs overall are where they should have been back in 2010-2011. You can get GTs cheaper than SSs, but they are more stripped out too interior wise and component wise, so you aren't really making out.

It's basically correct that the M3 is just a bolt-on sedan. To some extent, this will limit what the chassis is capable of, but with enough bolt-on and smart engineering you can produce a chassis that is capable of some high performance at high specs (like the Alpha). It won't be as fast as something completely optimized like McLaren to use an extreme example, but the mustang *should* have been designed from the onset to be able to take crazy-wide tires, put the power down, have the chassis stiffness, etc., to take it to those higher levels.

It almost seems more like Chevrolet says "why not?", and they spec things like 305, 325 tires, and generally make aggressive specs/performance that the other major (and even foreign) auto makers are too conservative for.
__________________
Current: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, 2023 Colorado ZR2. Former: BMW 428i Gran Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2018, 11:59 PM   #47
Spa2k
Major
United_States
1193
Rep
1,086
Posts

Drives: '13 JCW
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I want to say Grand Sport, but that engine alone in the GT350 will help it retain value.
Especially now that Ford has issued a supplement to the owner’s manual that says that the engine consuming a quart of oil every 500 miles is normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbbrewer View Post
Gt350 seems more special to me.
That’s because you’re in Texas, where you have easy access to all the oil your car can drink.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 08:59 AM   #48
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

What does it think it is, a rotary?!
Appreciate 1
Viffermike1753.00
      05-15-2018, 09:12 AM   #49
pgviper
Captain
United_States
278
Rep
823
Posts

Drives: X3m40
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

I find it hard to understand the "practicality" argument of an m4 vs c7. The c7 has massive trunk space (almost the size of a hatch) and every two door car I have ever owned had a backseat that was obnoxious to ask an adult to sit in. If you need the backseat for practicality then get an M3. If you like the two door look, then get an m4 but the practicality argument is just ridiculous.
Appreciate 3
Spa2k1193.00
c1pher4545.50
      05-15-2018, 09:22 AM   #50
Never_Enough
Banned
United_States
2202
Rep
2,476
Posts

Drives: Satan's Chariot 2.0
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: PA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I find it hard to understand the "practicality" argument of an m4 vs c7. The c7 has massive trunk space (almost the size of a hatch) and every two door car I have ever owned had a backseat that was obnoxious to ask an adult to sit in. If you need the backseat for practicality then get an M3. If you like the two door look, then get an m4 but the practicality argument is just ridiculous.
Vettes really do have a lot of cargo space. I fit 4 wheels, with tires on them, in the back of my old Z06.
Appreciate 2
pgviper277.50
swanson733.00
      05-15-2018, 02:24 PM   #51
FrostyDC4
First Lieutenant
77
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: C63S Sedan|350Z
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Somewhere, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 Nissan 350Z  [0.00]
2012 BMW 135i  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
Especially now that Ford has issued a supplement to the owner’s manual that says that the engine consuming a quart of oil every 500 miles is normal.
Wot?!!!!!!!!!!

What are the recommended oil change intervals & has anyone had a motor replaced due to excessive oil consumption?
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 02:49 PM   #52
Spa2k
Major
United_States
1193
Rep
1,086
Posts

Drives: '13 JCW
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyDC4 View Post
Wot?!!!!!!!!!!

What are the recommended oil change intervals & has anyone had a motor replaced due to excessive oil consumption?
There’s an oil monitor that suggests when to change the oil (up to 10,000 miles, IIRC - but I can’t imagine anyone waiting that long). I saw one guy who only had 33% oil life after 600 miles. There also have been failures due to internal parts like the oil pump gear failing and other oiling-related problems (and people not torquing the oil filters), but I have no idea how many. It looks to me like Ford may have released the supplement to the owner’s manual to prevent having to replace engines with excessive oil consumption.

So, here’s the real question: If you have to add 20 quarts of oil in 10,000 miles, haven’t you already changed the oil?
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 02:57 PM   #53
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
c1pher's Avatar
United_States
4546
Rep
3,995
Posts

Drives: All of them
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 03:06 PM   #54
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

I would not buy the GT350

Read here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...pdate-2-review

Key portion here:
Since our last update, the 5.2-liter Voodoo V-8 has developed a thirst for 5W-50 synthetic oil. Over the past 11,800 miles, the high-revving engine has consumed 8.5 quarts. There are no leaks, so we can only assume that it’s exiting the quad tailpipes. If this were the ’80s, this might be acceptable, but it’s 2018 and oil depletion has become a rarity. Ford has released a supplement to the owner’s manual regarding oil consumption, stating that the engine could drink up to one quart every 500 miles under “extended time at high engine speeds, high loads, engine braking, hard cornering maneuvers, and track use.” Our car, however—excepting the odd mountain run and back-road blast, of course—has spent most of its life on freeways.
Appreciate 2
Red Bread4462.00
Viffermike1753.00
      05-15-2018, 03:24 PM   #55
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Thanks, was just about to post that. The RX8 returns.

Oh, and I'd like to change my vote to the Plastic Fantastic.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 03:25 PM   #56
Spa2k
Major
United_States
1193
Rep
1,086
Posts

Drives: '13 JCW
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

With the loose tolerances on the high-revving GT350 engine, it’s inevitable that some oil will sneak past the rings and other parts and get burned up by the converters. I just can’t imagine owning a car where you have to stop more often for oil than for gas.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2018, 09:53 PM   #57
FrostyDC4
First Lieutenant
77
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: C63S Sedan|350Z
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Somewhere, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 Nissan 350Z  [0.00]
2012 BMW 135i  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
There’s an oil monitor that suggests when to change the oil (up to 10,000 miles, IIRC - but I can’t imagine anyone waiting that long). I saw one guy who only had 33% oil life after 600 miles. There also have been failures due to internal parts like the oil pump gear failing and other oiling-related problems (and people not torquing the oil filters), but I have no idea how many. It looks to me like Ford may have released the supplement to the owner’s manual to prevent having to replace engines with excessive oil consumption.

So, here’s the real question: If you have to add 20 quarts of oil in 10,000 miles, haven’t you already changed the oil?

thats wild!

I'm surprised there has not been a lawsuit yet. If its that bad I wouldnt even bother an oil change
__________________
C63S Sedan: Long Live The V8
350Z: The Very Poorman's 981 GT4
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2018, 10:53 AM   #58
Graves
Sicario
Graves's Avatar
United_States
1130
Rep
1,248
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Fort Stewart

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 ZCP  [0.00]
This thread went GT350 hating real fast. No surprise from a bunch of BMW fans. Build quality wise Ford will never be anything super amazing; however, the GT350 is still a really cool car and sounds absolutely amazing. To each their own. I went with a 2012 ZR1 personally and it sounds unreal and walks all over other cars on and off the track. That would be my choice once again.
__________________
Ryan King
2018 M3 ZCP
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2018, 11:02 AM   #59
Graves
Sicario
Graves's Avatar
United_States
1130
Rep
1,248
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Fort Stewart

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graves View Post
This thread went GT350 hating real fast. No surprise from a bunch of BMW fans.
And past GT350 owners...
True. Doesn't take much for one poor experience to leave someone salty as hell, lol. Took me years and years to go the BMW route. All I heard was people complaining about maintenance.
__________________
Ryan King
2018 M3 ZCP
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 12:28 AM   #60
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I find it hard to understand the "practicality" argument of an m4 vs c7. The c7 has massive trunk space (almost the size of a hatch) and every two door car I have ever owned had a backseat that was obnoxious to ask an adult to sit in. If you need the backseat for practicality then get an M3. If you like the two door look, then get an m4 but the practicality argument is just ridiculous.
Mostly agree, but I am not sure if you can get 170cm+ skis into a C7. You can in an M4. Plus the ability to carry 2 rear passengers or 2 children is something that a lot of people are willing to pay for, it would seem.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 09:29 AM   #61
pgviper
Captain
United_States
278
Rep
823
Posts

Drives: X3m40
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Mostly agree, but I am not sure if you can get 170cm+ skis into a C7. You can in an M4. Plus the ability to carry 2 rear passengers or 2 children is something that a lot of people are willing to pay for, it would seem.
Like I said, skis + children in an M4 just don't make sense to me. If that is the use case then get an M3 and roof rack where you can easily load in your kids and/or car seats if needed and other luggage without bending and twisting all over the place. Throw your skis up top so you don't scratch the interior leather and put your boots, helmets and equipment in the trunk.

Just to be clear, i'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean that you or anyone else shouldn't though.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 12:24 PM   #62
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
I considered and passed on both.

The build quality overall, not just interior is really subpar imo.

Get the M4 CompPack and put a Mperf exhaust and a tune. You will be MUCH happier.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 01:15 PM   #63
Never_Enough
Banned
United_States
2202
Rep
2,476
Posts

Drives: Satan's Chariot 2.0
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: PA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I considered and passed on both.

The build quality overall, not just interior is really subpar imo.

Get the M4 CompPack and put a Mperf exhaust and a tune. You will be MUCH happier.
Is there a tune that does not void M4 warranty?

What was wrong w/the build quality?
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 01:58 PM   #64
shiv.nandak
Lieutenant
271
Rep
476
Posts

Drives: C7 Z06, 16' M4 6MT SO
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW in NE View Post
I have driven both.. the GT350 is just awesome in my opinion... handles well, great interior, and of course that rev happy v-8. C7 has some serious low end grunt, handles well, but I found the interior lacking. and it's a corvette...they are everywhere. I can count 10+ vettes for every 1 GT350. For a DD i'd take teh GT350, for a fun weekend car I'd prob take the c7.
What exactly did you find lacking in the C7 interior? The digital dash? the HUD that is similar to a BMW? glass roof? full leather dashboard?

A 2LT/3LT with red interior interior looks like an exotic.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 03:29 PM   #65
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv.nandak View Post
What exactly did you find lacking in the C7 interior? The digital dash? the HUD that is similar to a BMW? glass roof? full leather dashboard?

A 2LT/3LT with red interior interior looks like an exotic.
Just look at the damn cheap Chevy Malibu gauges from the 90s. That alone is enough to turn me off.

Overall the interior of Corvette is OK for a Corvette but it is much worse than M3/4 or most cars that cost over $70k.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2018, 03:33 PM   #66
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
Is there a tune that does not void M4 warranty?

What was wrong w/the build quality?
I suggest you go to a dealer and spend 30 minutes closely inspecting the cars, you will find a ton of issues. Bad paint, misaligned exterior panels, cheap interior plastics, stitching thats loose or not in line etc.
BMW is not perfect but their QC is on another level.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST