Maintenance Question?

[jpsjr70]

What are the intervals for oil changes for our vehicles? Now that I'm tuned I'm thinking of doing 5k oil changes? Thoughts?

Joe

[m34SPD]

If you're keeping it long term, yeah I would do 5K, but normal is 10K.

[jpsjr70]

Originally Posted by MMG640

If you're keeping it long term, yeah I would do 5K, but normal is 10K.

Yes, going long term. Thanks pal.

Joe

[jcfay]

why would you do it less than the recommended interval? You think BMW skimped on the intervals since they pay for it?

[tastelid]

Originally Posted by MMG640

If you're keeping it long term, yeah I would do 5K, but normal is 10K.

Is bmw going to do it earlier than normal as part of the prepaid maintenance? Or do we have to cough up for the extras?

[m34SPD]

Originally Posted by tastelid

Is bmw going to do it earlier than normal as part of the prepaid maintenance? Or do we have to cough up for the extras?

You would have to pay, and BMW would still have to do it every 10k.

[PatrickC23]

Just make sure they do not reset the oil service timer for the paid interval oil changes. Some BMW service shops are robots and purely work off the countdown onboard.

[UrbanExtant]

I've been doing 5k oil changes from the beginning, and plan to going forward. I, actually, did the middle oil change before 10k miles at around 4k miles after break-in service. I told them not to reset the oil change reminder, or to change anything in the BMW service system, so it wouldn't affect any of the prepaid services that come with the vehicle. The latter is important, because if they don't input it correctly, it will trigger a cascading event whereby you'll get screwed out of your free services, and intervals at which they should be performed will be pushed-up sooner than needed.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

I've been doing 5k oil changes from the beginning, and plan to going forward. I, actually, did the middle oil change before 10k miles at around 4k miles after break-in service. I told them not to reset the oil change reminder, or to change anything in the BMW service system, so it wouldn't affect any of the prepaid services that come with the vehicle. The latter is important, because if they don't input it correctly, it will trigger a cascading event whereby you'll get screwed out of your free services, and intervals at which they should be performed will be pushed-up sooner than needed.

+1 for 5k.

[jcfay]

Originally Posted by Roundown

+1 for 5k.

why 5k? is BMW just being cheap with the prescribed intervals? will the internals take a bit with the recommended 10k?

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by jcfay

why 5k? is BMW just being cheap with the prescribed intervals? will the internals take a bit with the recommended 10k?

They're on the hook for warranty work up to 50k/miles and only to the first owner.

At this point, BMW thinks about maintenance the same way someone leasing (with no intention of buying) would- i.e the benefit of ensuring the long-term health of the motor is essentially zero.

These motors generate a ton of heat under load, operate under incredible pressures and have (at least in earlier iterations) a propensity to consume oil. Maximizing the efficacy of your oil (which is key for proper cooling, cylinder wear, etc.) for an extra $100/year seems like a no-brainer (to me).

[xueju1121]

I would change oil at 10k interval. Oil technology has advanced a long way since 2010.

When I was in Texas, I had a oil related project and in their lab, I saw the difference between"old fashion oil" vs modern oil. I can ensure you that 10K interval is the least thing you should worry about. Most of modern oil can go up to 20K and looks like new.

So, I would recommend to just stick with your reminder in car.

While I understand why people want to change their oil more frequently, I can only see a waste of money and time. Technology is far more advance than we can understand.

PS. I have a master degree of Chemical Engineering. So trust me, please.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by xueju1121

I would change oil at 10k interval. Oil technology has advanced a long way since 2010.

When I was in Texas, I had a oil related project and in their lab, I saw the difference between"old fashion oil" vs modern oil. I can ensure you that 10K interval is the least thing you should worry about. Most of modern oil can go up to 20K and looks like new.

So, I would recommend to just stick with your reminder in car.

While I understand why people want to change their oil more frequently, I can only see a waste of money and time. Technology is far more advance than we can understand.

PS. I have a master degree of Chemical Engineering. So trust me, please.

Source? BMW has already admitted that they may have gone a bit far...on series cars...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868291

[tastelid]

Originally Posted by xueju1121

I would change oil at 10k interval. Oil technology has advanced a long way since 2010.

When I was in Texas, I had a oil related project and in their lab, I saw the difference between"old fashion oil" vs modern oil. I can ensure you that 10K interval is the least thing you should worry about. Most of modern oil can go up to 20K and looks like new.

So, I would recommend to just stick with your reminder in car.

While I understand why people want to change their oil more frequently, I can only see a waste of money and time. Technology is far more advance than we can understand.

PS. I have a master degree of Chemical Engineering. So trust me, please.

The oil might be more advanced, but if the engine is burning it, you need to replace it eventually?

[xueju1121]

Originally Posted by Roundown

Source? BMW has already admitted that they may have gone a bit far...on series cars...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868291

I will find source for you when I get home this week. And according to your link, the new suggested interval is 10k, exactly the same with our F85/F86.

[xueju1121]

Originally Posted by tastelid

The oil might be more advanced, but if the engine is burning it, you need to replace it eventually?

Yes, and thats why we should change oil, but not at 3k or 5k. This is 2016 after all.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by xueju1121

Yes, and thats why we should change oil, but not at 3k or 5k. This is 2016 after all.

Just last year BMW had to do a "customer care package" for anyone that owns one of their vehicles that contains an N63 variant engine, partly because they pushed engine oil changes too far out. It was well documented that part of their engine failures were attributed to oil issues related to pushing oil changes to be too infrequent. Timing chains became fatigued and stretched, and, in some cases, the piston rods would sheer off and puncture the engines. At the time, BMW said 15k miles was perfectly safe, and worked well for their engines, and that oil technology was at the point it could substantiate these infrequent oil changes. They were wrong, horribly wrong. They have since downgraded maintenance for those engines to be 10k miles. Since the S63TU engines are based, in many ways, off of the N63 engines, but are pushed to even further limits in the call for more horsepower and torque, I am not willing to take the chance that BMW is again horrifically wrong in stating that 10k miles is perfectly safe and adequate for their engines. Oil is recycled now, as are most car fluids, so there's no harm to the environment to do more frequent oil changes. I'd rather pay $100-$150 per year extra in a possibly superfluous oil change, than shell out $40k+ on a new S63TU engine, if BMW is, once again, wrong in their estimations. What works on paper, or in a lab, oftentimes does not equate to how things work in the real world.

[xueju1121]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

Just last year BMW had to do a "customer care package" for anyone that owns one of their vehicles that contains an N63 variant engine, partly because they pushed engine oil changes too far out. It was well documented that part of their engine failures were attributed to oil issues related to pushing oil changes to be too infrequent. Timing chains became fatigued and stretched, and, in some cases, the piston rods would sheer off and puncture the engines. At the time, BMW said 15k miles was perfectly safe, and worked well for their engines, and that oil technology was at the point it could substantiate these infrequent oil changes. They were wrong, horribly wrong. They have since downgraded maintenance for those engines to be 10k miles. Since the S63TU engines are based, in many ways, off of the N63 engines, but are pushed to even further limits in the call for more horsepower and torque, I am not willing to take the chance that BMW is again horrifically wrong in stating that 10k miles is perfectly safe and adequate for their engines. Oil is recycled now, as are most car fluids, so there's no harm to the environment to do more frequent oil changes. I'd rather pay $100-$150 per year extra in a possibly superfluous oil change, than shell out $40k+ on a new S63TU engine, if BMW is, once again, wrong in their estimations. What works on paper, or in a lab, oftentimes does not equate to how things work in the real world.

Well, I am pretty sure BMW got it right this time since Mercedes, Audi, Porsche and basically every manufactures on market use 10K oil change interval.

But let's just say BMW fails again, you are not alone and will be protected by warranty.

Again, I will find sources and documents once I get home this week. I used to have a 997 Turbo and even with that high pressure, high rev engine, 10K is perfectly fine.

I love my car, but I am not gonna treat it like my father.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by xueju1121

Well, I am pretty sure BMW got it right this time since Mercedes, Audi, Porsche and basically every manufactures on market use 10K oil change interval.

But let's just say BMW fails again, you are not alone and will be protected by warranty.

Again, I will find sources and documents once I get home this week. I used to have a 997 Turbo and even with that high pressure, high rev engine, 10K is perfectly fine.

I love my car, but I am not gonna treat it like my father.

I plan to keep this vehicle beyond the warranty, as do many others. So, if BMW makes a mistake again with their maintenance plan intervals, I won't necessarily be covered. The excuse of xyz do it, so we can do it, and it'll be ok too, is rarely a good defense. There is a high likelihood that a 10k mile oil change interval could be acceptable, but with what's at stake, and BMW's past history with these issues, paying less than the price of a dinner out at a restaurant for an oil change at 5k mile intervals is a small price to pay to ensure the vehicle stays running perfectly for many years, and miles to come.

I've heard too many times in court, one expert say, I have this degree and that degree, so trust me, only to have another expert with the same set of degrees postulate, and put forth a counter argument. In the end, one has to make their own choices. There's nothing wrong with following BMW's maintenance plan, but there's also nothing wrong with being cautious after considering possible consequences, and a company's failed past history with maintenance interval decisions.

[xueju1121]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

I plan to keep this vehicle beyond the warranty, as do many others. So, if BMW makes a mistake again with their maintenance plan intervals, I won't necessarily be covered. The excuse of xyz do it, so we can do it, and it'll be ok too, is rarely a good defense. There is a high likelihood that a 10k mile oil change interval could be acceptable, but with what's at stake, and BMW's past history with these issues, paying less than the price of a dinner out at a restaurant for an oil change at 5k mile intervals is a small price to pay to ensure the vehicle stays running perfectly for many years, and miles to come.

I've heard too many times in court, one expert say, I have this degree and that degree, so trust me, only to have another expert with the same set of degrees postulate, and put forth a counter argument. In the end, one has to make their own choices. There's nothing wrong with following BMW's maintenance plan, but there's also nothing wrong with being cautious after considering possible consequences, and a company's failed past history with maintenance interval decisions.

I guess we are lucky since BMW only charge "less than the price of a dinner" for oil change. I used to spend around $600 on my Porsche. Ouch! The thing is, I don't care how much I pay, I just wanna make sure my money go where it should.

Again, I am not an BMW engine expert but I am kind of oil expert, (Been doing oil and LNG business for a long time. ) and I believe in science, not experience.

But I agree with you on one thing, one has to make their own choices. I used to change oil in my SRT8 at around 3K interval LOL.

Cheers.

[xueju1121]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

I plan to keep this vehicle beyond the warranty, as do many others. So, if BMW makes a mistake again with their maintenance plan intervals, I won't necessarily be covered. The excuse of xyz do it, so we can do it, and it'll be ok too, is rarely a good defense. There is a high likelihood that a 10k mile oil change interval could be acceptable, but with what's at stake, and BMW's past history with these issues, paying less than the price of a dinner out at a restaurant for an oil change at 5k mile intervals is a small price to pay to ensure the vehicle stays running perfectly for many years, and miles to come.

I've heard too many times in court, one expert say, I have this degree and that degree, so trust me, only to have another expert with the same set of degrees postulate, and put forth a counter argument. In the end, one has to make their own choices. There's nothing wrong with following BMW's maintenance plan, but there's also nothing wrong with being cautious after considering possible consequences, and a company's failed past history with maintenance interval decisions.

I have attached some document I could find around me, I will get the lab report on thermal Stress Test when I get back.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by xueju1121

I have attached some document I could find around me, I will get the lab report on thermal Stress Test when I get back.

I appreciate you posting these. I was involved with the oil and gas industry from 2004-2007. I understand that, in theory, and in some real world testing, synthetic oils can be pushed to a pretty decent limit. As I previously said, there is a high likelihood that BMW's 10k mile interval is acceptable. For me, however, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and do the extra oil changes at 5k miles, just to be extra sure the car stays "healthy" for a long time. My intention is to keep this vehicle around 7 years. I know I'm not the only one who chooses to be more cautious. The dealership I work with says that the vast majority of their M owners choose to do the 5k mile oil changes, as well.