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      05-30-2014, 11:21 AM   #1
bluelodge400
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Blown Motor

On 3/13/14 I was driving up to Tahoe and about halfway there I get the dreaded “Drivetrain Malfunction” light. The vehicle immediately loses hp and goes into limp mode. I continue driving since it is rush hour traffic and I wanted to get through Sacramento. I immediately call BMW of SF and tell them my problem. They wanted me to pullover ASAP and call a tow truck. That was not an option I was going to do! I was not going to let BMW ruin my mini vacation. I ask to make an appointment for Monday morning and he told me they were booked up for the next 4 weeks. WTF!!! So I made an appointment at another dealer for the following week.

After being in the shop for the next 2.5 weeks, the service department replaced everything from the VANOS Solenoids to control modules. Absolutely every fix they tried, the DM would return after test driving the vehicle for a few miles. I got a call back from the manager letting me know that they will be replacing the engine.

Normally, I would have been very upset but this particular dealer has handled it very well. I was informed daily about what was going on. Since this was a new vehicle, they had to go by what BMW Corporate told them they could and could not change/fix. The dealer took care of having BMW Financial waive one lease payments(they tried for 2 but BMW rejected it), allowed me to change out my loaner car to something more suitable, waived the “no dog allowed in loaner vehicle” policy(I have a 170 pound American Mastiff that comes to work with me every day.) The dealer also fixed warranty work a previous dealer would not do.

In total, it took the dealer 43 days to fix the vehicle.

After getting it back, there’s still a few problems and I dropped it back off this week for them to try and diagnose and fix.

At this point, I would just like BMW to Lemon Law the vehicle and order a new one. Has anyone done this before?

Vehicle Background: 2014 X5 50i MSport (heavily optioned)
Miles: 4,300 at time of DM Light.
Leased: Dec 20th, 2013

Last edited by bluelodge400; 05-30-2014 at 11:29 AM..
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      05-30-2014, 11:24 AM   #2
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Wow! That's insane! Glad you had a great service staff, but still.
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      05-30-2014, 11:40 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear but good dealer service is welcoming. Nice dog, even better that he/she keeps you company every day. Hopefully resolved soon.
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      05-30-2014, 12:37 PM   #4
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That's brutal man. What were the problems it had to go back for? Is all fixed now?
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      05-30-2014, 12:50 PM   #5
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Wow!!! Did they blame you for not stopping the car when they told you to do? I had nothing this serious but still a stupid rearview camera that does not work. Car was for an entire week at dealership and they replaced camera, took the car apart to check wires and said they fixed it. Two days later camera stopped working and now only works when it wants. Car is going back to dealer next week. Very annoying!!!
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      05-30-2014, 12:54 PM   #6
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That really sucks. Please keep us posted on the developments, specially if you decided to order a new truck under the lemon law. Anyone of could be faced with such problems so it would be helpful to study a precedent.
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      05-30-2014, 01:09 PM   #7
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According to this site:

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon

one of the criteria for meeting the lemon law definition in CA is if your car is in repair for 30 or more days, which you apparently meet. But there are no hard-and-fast rules, so a judge may say that 42 days to swap the engine is "reasonable."

Are you really serious about this? It seems that you have been treated fairly well, and while being without the car for over a month is a hassle you've had a loaner and been allowed to skip a payment. If they are able to resolve the last issues under warranty, whatever they are, why pursue the lemon law option?
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      05-30-2014, 01:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipB View Post
According to this site:

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon

one of the criteria for meeting the lemon law definition in CA is if your car is in repair for 30 or more days, which you apparently meet. But there are no hard-and-fast rules, so a judge may say that 42 days to swap the engine is "reasonable."

Are you really serious about this? It seems that you have been treated fairly well, and while being without the car for over a month is a hassle you've had a loaner and been allowed to skip a payment. If they are able to resolve the last issues under warranty, whatever they are, why pursue the lemon law option?
because it is the American way

In all seriousness, I agree with you. OP didn't follow the dealers instructions to stop the car and pull over. Expects his car to be brought in for a fix right away regardless of the other cars that are in for service or repairs which is probably the reason why they were booked for 4 weeks. To the OP, the dealer / BMWNA doesn't just replace motors at first sign of a problem... these things take time and they try to minimize cost as much as possible.

Good Luck.
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      05-30-2014, 02:04 PM   #9
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That's really unfortunate about your vehicle . I hope it gets fixed properly. I don't blame you for not pulling over in rush hour, especially considering safety; I'm glad your car did not shut down and you made it home safely - that was probably a 50/50 risk by pulling over vs. not pulling over.

This stupid light has come on in almost every single one of our vehicles and has gone away after a few minutes to hours and never returned. Of course when I looked it up, I had worries as well because it can be caused by just about anything, which is pretty worrisome and ridiculous.

Here's some info to help you in regards to California Lemon Law taken from this thread for a problematic: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646669.

"That's a great question.

Repurchase is easy. Done on the phone with BMWNA rep. You get a check and it's all over. Advantage? Quick, & you can shop other brands or renegotiate with BMW dealer. You have some leverage here (loss of time, hassle, etc., etc.) - use it if you can.

Replacement- from what I've been able to gather, in California law, BOTH you and BMW have to agree to a replacement. You, by yourself, don't get to decide that one. Who in the BMW gives the green light to a replacement? My guess is whoever in the BMW chain of command, starting with the dealer, you can convince to go along with you.
If you tend to pay sticker for your cars, the dealer is probably going to go along with a replacement and maybe throw in a freebie option. If you did a Euro Delivery, or got some other kind of good deal on your lemon, plan on working hard to get the same good deal on a replacement.

BMW will work with you. Get the Service manager on your side. You don't need a lawyer to get payback. You need a little patience.

I took the repurchase and, after looking around, bought another BMW.
Got my fingers crossed.
Good luck"

He actually had the same problem with Drivetrain Malfunction - he recounts his experience in this thread: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...in+malfunction

So, from what I gather, a dealer buy back/repurchase would be the best/quickest option. If you have any further questions or need help, feel free to ask. I don't know too much about how Lemon Law works, but I simply searched a few minutes ago and found that. Good luck! Let us know how it goes .
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      05-30-2014, 09:17 PM   #10
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Opasha
WOW, Thank you for all your help! That is some great information. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge. Repurchase would be ideal but I would be happy with BMW replacing it with exactly what I have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by opasha View Post
That's really unfortunate about your vehicle . I hope it gets fixed properly. I don't blame you for not pulling over in rush hour, especially considering safety; I'm glad your car did not shut down and you made it home safely - that was probably a 50/50 risk by pulling over vs. not pulling over.

This stupid light has come on in almost every single one of our vehicles and has gone away after a few minutes to hours and never returned. Of course when I looked it up, I had worries as well because it can be caused by just about anything, which is pretty worrisome and ridiculous.

Here's some info to help you in regards to California Lemon Law taken from this thread for a problematic: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646669.

"That's a great question.

Repurchase is easy. Done on the phone with BMWNA rep. You get a check and it's all over. Advantage? Quick, & you can shop other brands or renegotiate with BMW dealer. You have some leverage here (loss of time, hassle, etc., etc.) - use it if you can.

Replacement- from what I've been able to gather, in California law, BOTH you and BMW have to agree to a replacement. You, by yourself, don't get to decide that one. Who in the BMW gives the green light to a replacement? My guess is whoever in the BMW chain of command, starting with the dealer, you can convince to go along with you.
If you tend to pay sticker for your cars, the dealer is probably going to go along with a replacement and maybe throw in a freebie option. If you did a Euro Delivery, or got some other kind of good deal on your lemon, plan on working hard to get the same good deal on a replacement.

BMW will work with you. Get the Service manager on your side. You don't need a lawyer to get payback. You need a little patience.

I took the repurchase and, after looking around, bought another BMW.
Got my fingers crossed.
Good luck"

He actually had the same problem with Drivetrain Malfunction - he recounts his experience in this thread: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...in+malfunction

So, from what I gather, a dealer buy back/repurchase would be the best/quickest option. If you have any further questions or need help, feel free to ask. I don't know too much about how Lemon Law works, but I simply searched a few minutes ago and found that. Good luck! Let us know how it goes .
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      05-30-2014, 09:19 PM   #11
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I did forget to add a key piece of information.
Prior to the DM failure, the X5 has had to go to the dealer service for roughly 10 days, not consecutively, for a few other random issues it was having up until last Tuesday, that’s 53 total days plus however long the new problems will take. But since I have a loaner and other toys in the garage, I am not going to lose sleep over it being in the shop for longer than normal!
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      05-30-2014, 10:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelodge400 View Post
Opasha
WOW, Thank you for all your help! That is some great information. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge. Repurchase would be ideal but I would be happy with BMW replacing it with exactly what I have.
You're very welcome, buddy . Hope things work out for you without any hassles. Keep us posted .
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      05-31-2014, 12:14 PM   #13
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Thank you for the support! I will keep everyone updated during this process. I have never had to deal with problems on a new vehicle like this and I’ve never lemon’d one before. This should be an interesting experience.

I would definitely get another X5. There’s not much I don’t like about it and I am more than happy with it when it’s not in the shop.

To answer a few questions.

For why I continued driving: I was 2.5 hours from home and an hour from my destination. From what I have been told (please correct me if I am wrong) but BMW Roadside Assistance tows you to the nearest dealer, they will not tow me 2.5hours hours home, or to my destination. I had no intention of spending the night in Sacramento when I would lose my reservation at the hotel I had booked an hour or so away(this was the weekend I was proposing to my GF, everything was setup in Tahoe to do this and I was not about to change my plan over a DM light!). I called another BMW dealer and asked to talk to a service tech. He informed me the vehicle was in limp mode and that as long as the vehicle was not running rough and the check engine light was not blinking, I should not have a problem and to continue on.
When I called my current dealer the following Monday to make an appointment I asked if it was ok to drive while I waited until my appointment. I was informed, yet again, that it was ok to drive and not to worry. Outside of BMW SF, 2 other dealers said it was alright to drive if the DM light was on.

Why it should be lemon'd: By the time I get it back at the end of next week, IT WILL HAVE BEEN IN THE SHOP FOR ALMOST 60 days!!! I work 6 to 7 days a week, I do not have the time to deal with taking this vehicle in every time there’s a problem. I do not think I am being unreasonable. Maybe some people have a lot more free time than I do. I just don’t want to be spending the little time I do have constantly bringing it into a dealer.
Also, I should be getting my full money’s worth for a vehicle that I paid for. I understand things go wrong from time to time, I have leased dozens of vehicles over the years, but this particular X5 has been in the shop more times in the last 5 months then the last 5 cars I have had combined.

New Problems:
Running very rough during idle.
There is much more exhaust back pressure than usual. Constant load popping sounds should not be coming from the exhaust(I understand a little popping is normal, but this is pretty loud and constant).
There is a fuel pump problem.
The front camera is not working.
Emergency breaking is not functioning.
This is just to name a few.

Past Problems:
Coolant Pump Replaced
Steering column replaced
Exhaust Manifold Leak
Vanos Solenoid replaced
Intake and Exhaust Solenoids Replaced
Broken Door Panel Clips(very minor compared to the other issues!)
There are a few more but these are the ones I can remember.

After all this, am I still being unreasonable and should not have this vehicle replaced under the lemon law?
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      05-31-2014, 12:58 PM   #14
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Wow, first of all, congratulations on your engagement . Second, I really am sorry for all your troubles, man. Thanks for the details. It gives a better understanding of your situation.

In all honesty, the X5 is a great car, and it seems you got the short end of the stick with yours. You should definitely get a new one. It's good that you have extra cars so you don't have to worry when it comes to more important things like work and your every day life. I know what a waste taking your car for service can be. The closest dealer for me to get my car serviced is about 40-50 miles (about an hour drive without traffic). Thankfully my problems were fixed.

If BMW gives you a hard time, which they shouldn't, get a close lawyer friend involved that can advise you in pursuing the most efficient method out of the info you've found and researched. Good luck, buddy!
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      06-01-2014, 04:00 PM   #15
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Hope you don't get to this point
http://www.thecollectiveint.com/2013...ashes-his.html
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      06-01-2014, 07:52 PM   #16
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AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelodge400
On 3/13/14 I was driving up to Tahoe and about halfway there I get the dreaded “Drivetrain Malfunction” light. The vehicle immediately loses hp and goes into limp mode. I continue driving since it is rush hour traffic and I wanted to get through Sacramento. I immediately call BMW of SF and tell them my problem. They wanted me to pullover ASAP and call a tow truck. That was not an option I was going to do! I was not going to let BMW ruin my mini vacation. I ask to make an appointment for Monday morning and he told me they were booked up for the next 4 weeks. WTF!!! So I made an appointment at another dealer for the following week.

After being in the shop for the next 2.5 weeks, the service department replaced everything from the VANOS Solenoids to control modules. Absolutely every fix they tried, the DM would return after test driving the vehicle for a few miles. I got a call back from the manager letting me know that they will be replacing the engine.

Normally, I would have been very upset but this particular dealer has handled it very well. I was informed daily about what was going on. Since this was a new vehicle, they had to go by what BMW Corporate told them they could and could not change/fix. The dealer took care of having BMW Financial waive one lease payments(they tried for 2 but BMW rejected it), allowed me to change out my loaner car to something more suitable, waived the “no dog allowed in loaner vehicle” policy(I have a 170 pound American Mastiff that comes to work with me every day.) The dealer also fixed warranty work a previous dealer would not do.

In total, it took the dealer 43 days to fix the vehicle.

After getting it back, there’s still a few problems and I dropped it back off this week for them to try and diagnose and fix.

At this point, I would just like BMW to Lemon Law the vehicle and order a new one. Has anyone done this before?

Vehicle Background: 2014 X5 50i MSport (heavily optioned)
Miles: 4,300 at time of DM Light.
Leased: Dec 20th, 2013
Hey buddy I had to chuckle when I read that you have an American mastiff, we have 2 of them. Badger and poppy. Is yours from cappelle creek? Cameron Pridmore? Sorry about your problems with the x5. I have a 2014 diesel m sport and haven't had any problems yet, 5,000 miles.

Brian
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      06-02-2014, 09:57 AM   #17
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That is exactly where I got him. Crazy Cameron…What a small world.

I don’t know how you deal with 2. I only have one and he’s needier than a drunk sorority girl!
I grew up with Labs and knew very little about AM’s when I got him, but after this this guy I don’t think I could ever not have an AM. Thank god they are easy to train. I rarely ever have to pick up their elephant size S***, mine only goes in ivy or bushes.

I love that name Badger. Very fitting for an AM!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggluck3 View Post
Hey buddy I had to chuckle when I read that you have an American mastiff, we have 2 of them. Badger and poppy. Is yours from cappelle creek? Cameron Pridmore? Sorry about your problems with the x5. I have a 2014 diesel m sport and haven't had any problems yet, 5,000 miles.

Brian
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      06-02-2014, 10:05 AM   #18
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HAHAHAHA! That guy has some serious anger issues. Life is to short to be that frustrated.
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      09-03-2014, 12:17 PM   #19
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Sorry for the long delay in posting. I have been waiting to write my update until I had absolutely everything sorted out and the new car was in the driveway.

The Lemon process is actually very easy. BMWNA lemoned the car within a week and half after our first conversation.

Here is how the process works.
You first have to call BMW Customer Service, they take your information and then forward your call to the customer resolution department. After you tell them the same thing you told customer service, they have someone from the Executive Department call you back after looking over your information. At that point, your case is assigned to a person in the executive department. That person gets in touch with the regional rep in your area and they both look over your service history, warranty problems and what the lemon laws for your state consist of. At that point, they email you to tell you if they will buy back your vehicle or not. This was the easy part!(Hope that wasn't too confusing!)
I did not need to contact or hire a lemon law attorney but I did go over everything with an attorney who is a very good friend.

For CA, the lemon law is very straight forward and consumer friendly. The only downside in CA, the manufacture can and will charge .70cents a mile for all the miles driven until you bring it in to the dealer for the first problem related to the Lemon Issues. That .70cent number is much higher than the federal .56 cent write-off figure. In my case, I had roughly 4,000 miles on the odometer.

As for what’s been the biggest pain.in.the.ass: It was getting another X5 ordered. My dealer did not have any allotments to order a new X5 and had to do a dealer trade. When my new 2015 X5 came in, BMW NA was not offering or running any promotions for the X5 and the residual went to hell. The dealer wanted $190+ more a month on the lease. Morally, I did not feel right paying much more than what I was currently paying. (Both the 2014 and 2015 had the exact same options, MSRP only went up $300). After a lot of negotiating back and forth, the dealer finally agreed to a price I was comfortable with, which was $41.00 more a month than what I was currently paying.

I still have the 2014 X5 until next week. All kinds of new issues have shown up while I waited for the 2015 to arrive. The alarm randomly goes off, the gas gauge stopped working, check engine light is lit up, on occasion the upper tailgate will not auto-close and the exhaust manifold leak seems to be getting worse(I do enjoy the louder exhaust note!).

It’s been a fun 8 month adventure and I never knew what’s going to happen next, kinda like dating a crazy bitch! But now it’s time to move on to something more stable and dependable. So far, I am loving the 2015 X5 and I am sure it will give me a lot less problems.
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      09-03-2014, 12:31 PM   #20
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Glad everything worked out for you .
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      09-03-2014, 12:39 PM   #21
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Glad everything worked out for you .
Ditto!
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