BMW X5 and X6 Forum 2014-Current
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW X5 and X6 Forum (F15/F16) > BMW X5 (F15) and BMW X6 (F16) Forum > BMW X5 and X6 (F15/F16) Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-29-2013, 10:48 PM   #23
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
191
Rep
4,848
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

I am having trouble to tell between the new and the old...
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2013, 10:59 PM   #24
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Like M-Sport bumper and interior. Don't like rest of design.

Also it doesn't look coherent as if different people designed different pieces.
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2013, 11:43 PM   #25
M2COMP
Captain
United_States
495
Rep
618
Posts

Drives: 2011 X5, 2013 550xi, M2C
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southeast

iTrader: (0)

Ordinary, very ordinary. Not even evolutionary. May look better in person.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 12:10 AM   #26
///M3Owner
Lieutenant
///M3Owner's Avatar
99
Rep
545
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

One of the best sedans out there!
__________________
2011 E92 M3 Metallic White Competition Package
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 12:22 AM   #27
Phaeron
Private First Class
8
Rep
153
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Richmond

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgere View Post
another BMW that doesn't look like BMW nor (probably) handles better than its predecessor.
Uhmm.... what year BMW do you own? Everything made in the 2007 to 2011 was a rapid departure from the old BMW design. All BMWs made in 80s, 90s, and early 2000s were all square bodied cars. The massive redesign of 2007 saw the BMWs have rounded bodies much like Audi.

As for what out handles what. It has already been proven that the newer cars out handle their predecessors. Example a new three series with all season tires will out handle an old three series with summer tires...

The only people who are complaining about the handling of the new BMWs are american Magazines. It is odd how Europe is giving BMW great reviews while C&D, Motortrend, and Road and Track are reporting an almost different car. Hell, Topgear loves the current M5 and M6 which both did not get good reviews from C&D. I will take Topgear who doesn't go running to VW for ad money and has a WAY BETTER test driver then C&D before i take C&D's opinion which will invalidate itself when they do a lightning lap.

I cannot wait for the 2013 Lightining Lap where the review will be a complete 180 like it always is. Consistency is not a hallmark of American reviewers.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 12:32 AM   #28
Gjm127
Lieutenant
Gjm127's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
544
Posts

Drives: BMW 435i xDrive M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montreal, QC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I like it.. looks cool aggressive!
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 12:32 AM   #29
bimmerjph
Colonel
bimmerjph's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
2,023
Posts

Drives: 2005 Z4 3.0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron

Uhmm.... what year BMW do you own? Everything made in the 2007 to 2011 was a rapid departure from the old BMW design. All BMWs made in 80s, 90s, and early 2000s were all square bodied cars. The massive redesign of 2007 saw the BMWs have rounded bodies much like Audi.

As for what out handles what. It has already been proven that the newer cars out handle their predecessors. Example a new three series with all season tires will out handle an old three series with summer tires...

The only people who are complaining about the handling of the new BMWs are american Magazines. It is odd how Europe is giving BMW great reviews while C&D, Motortrend, and Road and Track are reporting an almost different car. Hell, Topgear loves the current M5 and M6 which both did not get good reviews from C&D. I will take Topgear who doesn't go running to VW for ad money and has a WAY BETTER test driver then C&D before i take C&D's opinion which will invalidate itself when they do a lightning lap.

I cannot wait for the 2013 Lightining Lap where the review will be a complete 180 like it always is. Consistency is not a hallmark of American reviewers.
If you mean they have better grip than there predecessors, then yes you are correct. However, you are ignorant at best if you think that any F30 has better steering feel, brake feel, or chassis feel in general than any of its predecessors. The former is grip, not handling. I had an extensive balls to the wall test drive of a 328i sportline with summer tires. The steering feel (feeling the grip) was not even on the same planet as the E46 or E90. The feedback can't hold a candle to the E90 as well. It was closer to my all season tired E46, although the e46 was still a good bit better in that regard. While the F30 is not as bad as many claim. It is just pure and utter bullshit to say it "out handles" previous 3er regardless of tire choice. And anyway I would love to hear you back up that an F10 out handles an E60. The F10 actually is as bad as people claim.


Top Gear is a scripted TV show that is classified as an entertainment program, not an educational one. They don't prove anything.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 12:36 AM   #30
Erich2142
Private First Class
Canada
12
Rep
139
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, Ducati 848
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

RIP X5, the out going model is a 100x better than this. The front looks weird and the central consol is just ugly.
__________________
09 E92 M3
2011 Ducati 848
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 01:13 AM   #31
Phaeron
Private First Class
8
Rep
153
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Richmond

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
If you mean they have better grip than there predecessors, then yes you are correct. However, you are ignorant at best if you think that any F30 has better steering feel, brake feel, or chassis feel in general than any of its predecessors. The former is grip, not handling. I had an extensive balls to the wall test drive of a 328i sportline with summer tires. The steering feel (feeling the grip) was not even on the same planet as the E46 or E90.
Steering Feel, chassis feel, and brake feel have NOTHING TO DO WITH HANDLING. If you want to argue that then you have ZERO clue about what you are talking about and should go take a driving course. First I have drive the old E90 3 series both chassis communicate very well. The Brake feel of the E90 is about the same.. The only area where the E90 is "better" is with the Hydraulic steering wheel. However, unless it is non-power steering you do not feel anything. All you feel is the road noise which most people MISTAKE for true communication which you will never feel unless you have driven a car that does not possess power steering.

SO what is Handling? Handling is the ability of the car to respond to sudden commands. Grip is the ability of the car to stick to the road in a turn. The test of grip is the amount of Gs a car can do in a turn. That is Grip. You do not need your steering wheel to tell you when you are at the Apex of your grip. Your tires will signal that to you way before the steering wheel will know. Handling is the car ability to react to sudden command like the Slalom. Where you are juking the car with sudden directions.

In all regards the F30 has outperformed the E90 in GRIP and HANDLING. The chassis feel argument and brake feel you are claiming is BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
The feedback can't hold a candle to the E90 as well. It was closer to my all season tired E46, although the e46 was still a good bit better in that regard. While the F30 is not as bad as many claim. It is just pure and utter bullshit to say it "out handles" previous 3er regardless of tire choice. And anyway I would love to hear you back up that an F10 out handles an E60. The F10 actually is as bad as people claim.

No the Bullshit is the lies you are SPEWING on this forums. You do not even know the difference between handling and grip. I doubt you even know how to drive a car on the track.

What people are saying the new cars can't handle? People like you who either have never owned one or have never driven one or any car in an aggressive manner on a track?

I would like you to actually try to tell me about handling and grip again so I can laugh at you some more... Let me guess balls to the wall driving is 25mph in eco mode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Top Gear is a scripted TV show that is classified as an entertainment program, not an educational one. They don't prove anything.
Seeing you do not even know what grip vs handling is there is no reason to even continue this conversation. BTW, Car and driver is entertainment and not educational. Their reviews change to whatever manufacturer is doing a big push in ad buying. Same as Motortrend who talks wonderfully about Ford's eco boost engines only to blast those same engines they proudly loud in the "MOTORTREND ECOBOOST CHALLENGE!".

Last edited by Phaeron; 05-30-2013 at 01:23 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 01:44 AM   #32
kthankzbye
Lieutenant
kthankzbye's Avatar
86
Rep
459
Posts

Drives: 2011 F10 550i, 2020 G05 40i
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

iTrader: (1)

I like it. It's different. The M-sport looks nice.

I think it'll look so much better in person.

It's the same for the current F10. When it first came out. Lots of people didnt like it. But after you get used to it. It became such a beautiful car.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 02:31 AM   #33
acey81
First Lieutenant
Sweden
48
Rep
313
Posts

Drives: F15 X5 40d M-sport; F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

iTrader: (0)

I'm ordering this.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 02:54 AM   #34
bimmerjph
Colonel
bimmerjph's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
2,023
Posts

Drives: 2005 Z4 3.0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
All you feel is the road noise which most people MISTAKE for true communication which you will never feel unless you have driven a car that does not possess power steering.
Hence why I made two sepeerate categories. Steering feel and steering feedback. Go ahead and count it if you would like, you'll find it is indeed two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
SO what is Handling? Handling is the ability of the car to respond to sudden commands. Grip is the ability of the car to stick to the road in a turn. The test of grip is the amount of Gs a car can do in a turn. That is Grip. You do not need your steering wheel to tell you when you are at the Apex of your grip. Your tires will signal that to you way before the steering wheel will know. Handling is the car ability to react to sudden command like the Slalom. Where you are juking the car with sudden directions.
Hmmm. It seems like one of your heroes at Top Gear disagrees with you in this article. Pay particular attention to this passage. "This is what handling is really about in the broader sense; the ability of the machine to feed information back to our receiving apparatus so that we can act minutely on it.

The higher the fidelity of the feedback, the more precisely we can use it."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ng-wheels.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
No the Bullshit is the lies you are SPEWING on this forums. You do not even know the difference between handling and grip. I doubt you even know how to drive a car on the track.
I love watching people who are so sure they are right make an ass of themselves. I just found an article by the presenter of the television show that you used as an example to justify your claim, and he agreed with my definition. If you want to come at me further, then by all means. I will enjoy the entertainment, in fact I will relish your combination of ignorance and stubbornness. Alas, I am done with this argument as I accomplished what I set out to do. Prove you wrong using sources you cited.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 03:07 AM   #35
Z4dlinniy
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0Si, nice
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ukraine, Kiev

iTrader: (0)

It is not that bad as you say guys, just why they increase front hang-over?
Is it safety standards??? Otherwise I have no explanation wheel base is same and 30mm increase in hangover is not good for driving-pleasure car?

Interior is very nice though...
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 03:12 AM   #36
Hans_ACS
Private
Belgium
8
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: BMW F01 740d
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Coming from a E70, I dont like this new design
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 03:33 AM   #37
RetroB
Private
13
Rep
84
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 20d
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Slovenia

iTrader: (0)

Does anybody know how much the BMW X5 25d will cost. It looks damn good.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 04:28 AM   #38
SO__USA
enthusiast
SO__USA's Avatar
United_States
66
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: F80 BSM M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

Idk BMW, X5 was my dream car..... I'm not ruling out seeing it in person though....
__________________
Dre
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 04:35 AM   #39
Leo88
Private First Class
Leo88's Avatar
Italy
1
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: E92 325d
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Italy

iTrader: (0)

It looks HUGE
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 04:51 AM   #40
320d184
New Member
0
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: Bmw 320d m sport 184
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ireland

iTrader: (0)

Bmw or Audi???

There are parts of it that I like but as a whole I don't think it works at all. Just trying too hard to be all things to all men..

I am increasingly becoming disillusioned by BMW. They are now becoming so spec dependent it is ridiculous. There was a time when you got a base spec BM and it done all the things that the top spec done, just a little slower! All these new lines i.e Modern, Luxury and Sport are ridiculous. All BMWs are supposed to be sporty and if you wanted a little more sporty you got an M Sport.

Ultimate Driving Machine - no more.
Joy - not a hope. Rant over!
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 06:30 AM   #41
Alessandro
Major
Alessandro's Avatar
Serbia
109
Rep
1,043
Posts

Drives: Audi RS5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2011 335is  [9.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroB View Post
Does anybody know how much the BMW X5 25d will cost. It looks damn good.
Starting at 47k euro in Germany
__________________
19 Audi RS5
15 Audi S5 GIAC Stage 2 white
11 E92 335is DCT FBO 441 whp silver
08 E92 335i FBO 6MT 427 whp space grey
05 E46 M3 red
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 06:42 AM   #42
wdeerfield
A family of bimmers
United_States
2744
Rep
7,741
Posts

Drives: '18 G01 X3M40i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Clifton Park, NY

iTrader: (0)

that has to be the ugliest x5m. its too rounded and doesnt look aggressive at all
__________________
2018 PB/Black G01 X3M40i | 699M | ZDA | ZPP | ZPX | Maxton front lip | X3M vents | 15mm Spacers | Diamond G20 style grills
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 07:02 AM   #43
burrito007
Second Lieutenant
93
Rep
236
Posts

Drives: e46 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

about handling, feel.. blah blah whatever is being discussed above:


I have owned 3 bmws and an audi. 323i, e46 M3, and a 2013 X5. I have also owned a 2011 S4 with a tune on race gas. (also have regularly driven some other cars including E classes, C classes etc.

The 2011 S4 was clearly the better performing car in every aspect. The steering was so precise and the car was so damn fast. However, in terms of steering feel, there was none and i mean NONE. it was so light i might as well have been steering with a wii steering wheel.

BMW definitely has the best steering feel of any car I have driven. The car with the best steering feel was certainly the e46 M3 even though its performance was nowhere near the S4 in any other aspect. going to an X5 from the S4 was a disappointing loss of power, BUT what I have gained in feeling is almost worth the tradeoff.

This doesn't translate to better performance, but realistically I get all of the performance I need out of the X5 on the street and it just feels "right"

throttle response is an entirely different animal. X5's sucks majorly. S4's wasnt so great either.

If the new X5 has lost that steering feel I certainly will not be upgrading.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2013, 07:25 AM   #44
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
-1

The Kidney grills are huge!
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST