S63TU engine seized - rebuid, replace, or relinquish?

[Chilled]

If you don't plan on tuning it, you don't need the rods. Whilst there are cases of the stock ones bending, this is very rare.

Yep, the bearings can be done whilst in the car, from underneath. However, given the amount of effort needed. I would say do it whilst your inspecting the engine.

Yep, to do the rods, engine out, engine fully apart. Also depending on the rods combination, you will need to machine them and the crank.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Chilled

If you don't plan on tuning it, you don't need the rods. Whilst there are cases of the stock ones bending, this is very rare.

Yep, the bearings can be done whilst in the car, from underneath. However, given the amount of effort needed. I would say do it whilst your inspecting the engine.

Yep, to do the rods, engine out, engine fully apart. Also depending on the rods combination, you will need to machine them and the crank.

Thank Chilled. Mechanic is following up with machinist today. Apparently they are the only machinist in the state that has worked on this block before. But yeah, still don't like my chances.

Mechanic's advice is if going the junker engine route, don't bother checking components, just throw it in and flip it.

Quick question, is the F95 or F96 long block compatible at all with the F86 X6M, with or without modifications?
Sophisticated Redneck perhaps you may know this?

[I Luv BMW]

So back to considering the RK option again. Here is the full list of the replaced components in the S63TU stock rebuild:
- Replacement of all wear items
- Upper crank bearing
- Lower crank bearing
- Upper guide bearing
- Lower guide bearing
- Upper rod bearing green
- Lower rod bearing red
- collar screw stretching m11
- collar screw aligning m8
- collar screw secondary m8
- head bolts
- head gasket
- profile gasket 1-4
- profile gasket 5-8
- valve cover gasket 1-4
- valve cover gasket 5-6
- cyl 1-4 chain and rail
- slide rail 1-4
- upper slide rail 1-4
- chain tensioner
- cyl 5-8 chain and rail
- guide rail
- upper slide rail
- chain tensioner
- vanos bolts
- central chain guide
- upper oil pan gasket
- lower oil pan gasket
- front timing cover gasket
- front main seal
- rear main seal
- dowel sleeve
- oil return cover
- Water pump seal
- valve stem Seals

I will also have RK change over the rod bearings to ACL bearings for additional USD800.

All up, looking at approx. USD 19K (Approx $28K AUD) which includes the core charge and shipping.

Opting for the stock rather than forged build because of cost reasons, and also have no intention of tuning.

Obviously not cheap, but seems to represent good value considering it is only about $5K more than an old junkyard engine, and having my mechanic tear down the junkyard engine and replace components like bearings/rods would probably cost about $5K for labour & parts in any case.

Would appreciate any thoughts/feedback.

[Chilled]

A pre-rebuilt from a reputable builder does make more sense than a junkyard special. Especially considering that it's a full recondition. I don't think it's not worth the mental energy/potential DOA trying to piece together one of these things from different suppliers/parts.


I do think its kinda of douche for them to charge $800USD for a set of King/ACL rod bearings when they only cost $200-$300 whilst the OEM are $600-700. Unless they already have a engine built, in stock/ready to go. Going King/ACL should be cheaper. But I'm just kinda splitting hairs here.

RK, do seem to prefer Kings, so maybe those are in stock. Whilst ACL are a special order, hence the $$ increase.

[I Luv BMW]

Yeah it’s expensive no matter which way to look at it. But ultimately it is the best option out of similarly priced options, and my extensive research tells me that this really ends up being the minimal cost no matter which road you take to rebuilding or replacing.

At least this way there is more prospect of keeping it long term. If it behaves, the F86 may even be something I hold onto really long term and eventually just become a “weekend only” car.

USD 800 for ACL bearings does seem steep but I understand it adds 1 extra day to the order, so my thinking is that the stock builds they have on shelf are all OEM parts only.

That said, if I do hold onto it long term then checking the bearings condition from bottom end is something that I will probably do every 20k km as a preventative maintenance anyway so I wonder whether it’s even worth doing now. But if 800 is the cost of peace of mind then so be it.

[I Luv BMW]

As expected, received word from mechanic that the block is officially smithereens, and crank is damaged beyond repair.

About to pull the trigger on the RK stock long block now. To add to the above, I am told that the stock engine includes a brand new crank shaft, blocks and heads.

The mechanic's estimate to install the new engine is approx. $10K which includes all labour for the initial engine pull + tear down + the following parts to take advantage of replacing while the engine is out:
- engine oil
- engine filter
- coolant
- power steering fluid
- front differential oil
- transmission oil
- coolant bottom hose
- front drive shaft seals
- turbocharger feed line seals,
- turbo drain pipe seals
- turbo cooler line seals
- turbo cooler flange
- injector seals
- injector decoupling element
- water pump gasket.

So all in, we are talking $37-$38K. Definitely not small potatoes, but still 50% of the cost of installing a new long block with BMW.

I must admit that I don't even know what many of the above parts are, so appreciate any feedback!

[Chilled]

On the upside you can make a conversation piece table for the garage?

Most of those parts look good and make sense to replace/need to be replaced as part of engine out.

• Ask RK if you are getting a new water pump or do you need to transfer yours. If you are getting a new one, you should not need the "water pump gasket". If you are transferring your existing, as a potential wear item, it maybe worth just getting a new pump/gasket.
• Not sure on service history, check you if you sparkplugs/coils are due.
• *A Must* Transfer Case oil replacement
• *A good Idea* Rear Diff. (The center section on the rear diff is the same oil type as the front diff.) The 2 outer sections need their own oil type.
• Transmission Oil Filter - missing
• Don't forget the coolant replacement for the charge coolers.

For the Diff's and Transfer Case(this especially, do not go aftermarket for TC) oils, get these from your Local BMW dealer. After Exchange Rate+shipping the dealers were the cheapest.

For the reset (NGK/OEM spark plugs, o-rings, gaskets, seals etc), unless your mechanic can get a decent trade discount. I would say go FCP euro, once you factor in the FX-Shipping. They were still cheaper.
ie.

• The Transmission Oil( Lifeguard 8), the cheapest I found here was $50-$60 1/L and full capacity is around 7L so you will need 8L to account for the cooler. Its $16USD 1/L from FCP and from BMW its $100 1/L.
• The Transmission Oil filter, is $400AUD from dealer, is around $110-ish USD from FCP.

[I Luv BMW]

Thanks for that! I will suggest to mechanic, emphasising the "must" items.

Silly me, I didn't account for the duty and GST that I will need to pay once the engine hits Aus border, so the actual total price of the engine is going to be another $3K-$4K more than initially thought Just puts further salt on the wound but I am too far in to go back now. Can't wait for it to be over.

Here are some more photos of said conversation piece that I saw in person today. You can see a crack - apparently this runs all the way through the block.

Have also added a pic of the Eisenmann catless DPs which have only done like 7k km which I will put up for sale.

[Chilled]

Did you end up pressing the local BMW service/parts guys about doing a core swap/ trade against a new S63? You mentioned they were cagy and wanted to tear it down, well its tore down.

[I Luv BMW]

Nah I didn't bother. I have checked on BMW via a couple of indies and pricing for a new LB is always the same $59K. I figure irrespective of any core swap there is virtually zero chance of getting pricing anywhere remotely close to the RK engine (even after FX, core charge, shipping, duty and taxes). There is a threshold after which replacing/fixing becomes uneconomical, and the RK all-in cost is probably it.

I had read somewhere previously about some folks getting their engine replaced at BMW with BMW remanufactured block, and I asked BMW about that but they didn't seem to want to talk about it.

I ended up ordering the new engine from RK, and also spoke on the phone to "Mike" from RK, which made me feel more comfortable about it all. Now just playing the waiting game and fingers crossed customs doesn't hold things up too much.

[I Luv BMW]

My rebuilt engine from RK Autowerks is now on a plane in transit to Australia. I ordered the stock S63TU engine with the only upgraded part being ACL race coated rod bearings in place of the OEM bearings. I have no plans on tuning the car going forward after learning a very painful and expensive lesson.

Given the RK engine will essentially be a brand new engine, I am starting to think about run-in/break-in procedures and ongoing maintenance. I originally purchased my F86 as a demo car so did not undertake any run-in procedures. In fact, I don't think I've ever done a run-in on any car as I never buy new.

I have done quite a bit of research these past few weeks but want to get thoughts of others a few key matters.

Engine oil
Not trying to start another oil thread, but the RK and BMW recommended oil is 5W-40. This is also within the list of oils recommended in the BMW manual and seems appropriate for Aus (and I have previously used LM 5W-40). Any Australian members, maybe Chilled like to chime in? I know Melbourne obviously has harsher colder months than Brisbane, but interested in your thoughts?

Also, should this same oil be used from Day 1, i.e., when the engine is first installed and from the very first engine start? Or is there a different oil which BMW factory uses for the run-in period?

New engine run-in/break-in
BMW user manual specifies

• Up to 2,000km: Drive with alternating revolutions and speeds, but do not exceed 5,500RPM and 170 km/h.

• At 2,000KM: Have maintenance conduct a drive-in service. I assume that this will include oil change and oil filter.

• From 2,000km to 5,000km: Revolutions and vehicle speed can gradually be increased.

This all makes sense. However, I have read in the M5 forums that during the break-in period the car should be driven in both comfort and sport modes, and there was even something about a series of full throttle and engine braking during the first 30km or so, to help the 'seating' of the piston rings to prevent blow by. Would anyone like to comment on the validity/benefit of this?

Warm-up procedure
After a cold start, should the engine sit idle for a few minutes before driving? Or is better practice for engine to sit idle for about 1 minute, then gentle driving until the oil is up to temp?

Cool-down procedure
After spirited driving, WOT etc., is there a recommended cool-down procedure? I.e., drive gently for about 10 minutes before switching off the engine? There was also a recommendation in this thread about opening the hood/bonnet, which I am prepared to do when parked at home in my garage - I guess at worst, it cannot hurt?

Oil changes
At least every 10,000km.

In-between service maintenance
I assume there will still be a need to top-up oil between oil changes. Not that I intend to do this, but what are the drawbacks of mixing oil grades and viscosities? I.e., the oil in the engine is 5W-40, but topped up with 5W-30. The only scenario I can think of this happening is if I don't happen to be carrying extra oil in the car, and a different grade/viscosity (but one still approved by BMW) is the only one available.

In terms of things like injection cleaners, are these recommended, and how often?

These are all the things I can think of for the moment, I am sure there is more but it is quite late - would appreciate thoughts/comments on any of the above. Yes, I am being paranoid but I have to be after all that I have endured and the mistakes made!

I will post photos of the RK engine when it arrives.

[kangfu84]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

My rebuilt engine from RK Autowerks is now on a plane in transit to Australia. I ordered the stock S63TU engine with the only upgraded part being ACL race coated rod bearings in place of the OEM bearings. I have no plans on tuning the car going forward after learning a very painful and expensive lesson.

Given the RK engine will essentially be a brand new engine, I am starting to think about run-in/break-in procedures and ongoing maintenance. I originally purchased my F86 as a demo car so did not undertake any run-in procedures. In fact, I don't think I've ever done a run-in on any car as I never buy new.

I have done quite a bit of research these past few weeks but want to get thoughts of others a few key matters.

Engine oil
Not trying to start another oil thread, but the RK and recommended oil is 5W-40. This is also within the list of oils recommended in the BMW manual and seems appropriate (and I have previously used LM 5W-40). Any Australian members, maybe Chilled like to chime in? I now Melbourne obviously has harsher colder months than Brisbane, but interested in your thoughts?

Also, should this same oil be used from Day 1, i.e., when the engine is first installed and from the very first engine start? Or is there a different oil which BMW factory uses for the run-in period?

New engine run-in/break-in
BMW user manual specifies
Up to 2,000km: Drive with alternating revolutions and speeds, but do not exceed 5,500RPM and 170 km/h.
[LIST]
At 2,000KM: Have maintenance conduct a drive-in service. I assume that [...]

Great to hear you are making progress on resolving this, light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks for being an Aussie guinea pig with an engine replacement haha. Having said that I just had my rod bearings done. Been thinking about it for a while and to be honest this thread and seeing the options being so much more difficult/rare locally pushed me to get it done, so thanks? Lol

[I Luv BMW]

Haha, you are welcome. Changing the rod bearings is definitely better than alternative! In my case I am not really sure what came first, poor maintenance or spun rod bearing. A bit chicken-and-egg but I am sure they contributed to one another. I think in my case it seems that it was always on a path to destruction, judging by not just the bearings but the state of all the other components, such that changing the rod bearings might not have made a difference in the long term (beside being able to maybe flip it). That said, I didn't even know what a rod bearing was until my engine blew. Live and learn, I guess!

And once my replacement engine is installed, I will be sure to provide feedback.

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Engine oil
Not trying to start another oil thread, but the RK and BMW recommended oil is 5W-40. This is also within the list of oils recommended in the BMW manual and seems appropriate for Aus (and I have previously used LM 5W-40). Any Australian members, maybe Chilled like to chime in? I know Melbourne obviously has harsher colder months than Brisbane, but interested in your thoughts?

Also, should this same oil be used from Day 1, i.e., when the engine is first installed and from the very first engine start? Or is there a different oil which BMW factory uses for the run-in period?

As far as brands and specific versions that in the air. For LM you can buy all their stuff online via their own .au site. Shipping was like $10-$20, so total was significantly cheaper than going via the 5L bottles. Seems like they stopped shipping the 20L, bu RUN Auto seems to have nice rates.

As far as Ceratec or MOS2. I personally don't use and I've heard builders say that the stuff can thicken and separate from oil. Why is that an issue for me? In the last 6mth(last oil change) I've only put on 300km. So the bottom of my pan or anywhere else it can rest, would just be a ceratec layer. Not sure if once the engine is running it will thin out again.

FIY, Molygen has Ceratec in it.

Atm, I'm still going through my 20L jug of Leichtlauf. Once this is up I was going to go Castrol either 0w40 or 5w40. If you look around most people agree that the 0w40 has the better specs vs LM. The one thing is looks like the current release of 0w40 has lost its Porsche A40 cert. In the previous years its always had the LL01,MB229.5 and A40. Now only the 5w40 has it.

Motul X-cess 5w40 Gen 2 does have the better specs, but its impossible to get here and the gen1 is a waist. I did talk to the Aus distro late last year and the had nfi if they would ever get the Gen2.
It looks like is these guys have it, not sure if its local stock or the import.
https://www.autosphere.com.au/produc...synthetic-oil/

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

New engine run-in/break-in
BMW user manual specifies

• Up to 2,000km: Drive with alternating revolutions and speeds, but do not exceed 5,500RPM and 170 km/h.

• At 2,000KM: Have maintenance conduct a drive-in service. I assume that this will include oil change and oil filter.

• From 2,000km to 5,000km: Revolutions and vehicle speed can gradually be increased.

This all makes sense. However, I have read in the M5 forums that during the break-in period the car should be driven in both comfort and sport modes, and there was even something about a series of full throttle and engine braking during the first 30km or so, to help the 'seating' of the piston rings to prevent blow by. Would anyone like to comment on the validity/benefit of this?

Get the break-in instruction from RK.
The recommendations i've heard and used for other engines were along the lines.
Use mineral(non synthetic oil) for the first start. idle for 10-15min and do a flush/replace oil filter.
Go for a light 15min drive, again replace/oil filter
Go for 100Km drive, replace oil/filter.
Go for 500km drive, replace oil/filter, and now put in full synthetic oil

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Warm-up procedure
After a cold start, should the engine sit idle for a few minutes before driving? Or is better practice for engine to sit idle for about 1 minute, then gentle driving until the oil is up to temp?

Cool-down procedure
After spirited driving, WOT etc., is there a recommended cool-down procedure? I.e., drive gently for about 10 minutes before switching off the engine? There was also a recommendation in this thread about opening the hood/bonnet, which I am prepared to do when parked at home in my garage - I guess at worst, it cannot hurt?

for cold start, let it do a kick down twice. When you first start it, it will be full open and after about 30s-1m it will kick down(drop rpm), and after about 5m, it will kick down a second time. This is usually when i put it in D and go.
This is also enough time for me to get the batter tender off it, eye ball anything/bags in, etc.

Oil changes i would say go down to 7000KM, or time based(6mth) if you don't drive if often/long enough periods. If like me, you drive it rarely and on short trips. The oil may not heat up enough to evaporate the fuel/condensation/vapors/etc and over time will be left in the oil.

[I Luv BMW]

Thanks for all this useful information. I have shared with mechanic. Also, RK recommends standard BMW replacement engine install/break-in procedure, and does not recommend a special break-in oil, just the normal oil that will be used. I suspect that this is because the engine is not exactly factory new, in the sense that it does not have all new internal components.

I have an unrelated (and dumb) question - the car at the moment has a BM3 stage 2 tune. What exactly does the BM3 tune do? Does it permanently change anything in the ECU? And if I reflash black to stock tune using BM3, is it truly factory stock? This is important as I don't want to take any risks, and also important from a warranty perspective. I wonder whether the BM3 suppressed critical CELs which may have prevented this entire fiasco.

Also BTW, the ACL bearings installed on my engine run on stock clearances.

[I Luv BMW]

Arrived securely packaged in a wooden crate.

[Chilled]

oooooo, shiny. By the graces of the boost Gods, may your engine forever be this clean and oil leak free.

NFI, on the BM3. prob a Sophisticated Redneck question.

BTW, don't forget new plugs.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Chilled

oooooo, shiny. By the graces of the boost Gods, may your engine forever be this clean and oil leak free.

NFI, on the BM3. prob a Sophisticated Redneck question.

BTW, don't forget new plugs.

Spoke to the guys that originally installed the BM3 tune. Apparently can reflash to it back to the tune prior to any tune being uploaded (i.e., revert to stock).

By "plugs" I assume you mean spark plugs? I have given the above list to my mechanic, which included the spark plugs/coils, and all the liquids.

[Chilled]

How's the install going?

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Chilled

How's the install going?

Install is going well! Don't have any picture updates, but mechanic is working to have it all ready to go hopefully by the end of this week.

One thing I am grappling with is whether to replace the injectors at this point. Is this is a known failure point? Is this an absolute necessity at this point or can it be done at the next service (assuming it is not an engine out job)?

Also, if my F86 is a 10/2017 build, how do I tell if I have the EU5 or EU6 injectors? Realoem seems to suggest I may either:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=13538627842

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=13647599876

EU5 apparently superseded by EU6 from 04/01/2014 but EU5 is apparently still found in F86 up to 2019?

[Chilled]

Your most likely on EU 6, how to identify.

The injectors don't seem to be a common failure/routine replacement point, more of as needed. The change can be done in the car.

The one thing to do some research/ask around is the OEM vs the Bosch. The price diff is stupid. Its probably a Sophisticated Redneck question on OEM vs Bosche. If there is actually any difference, no mater how minute or its just a branding thing.

Also for the OEM, get from FCP/anywhere but aus.

[I Luv BMW]

Minor update.

Engine install is about 80% of the way there. Waiting on one final part to come in - I think it is like a connector or seal type part for a coolant house. One that is done the engine and transmission will go up, and all transmission fluids etc. So it won’t be ready this week as I had hoped. But I guess it’s more important it’s done right the first time. I’ve waited 5 months so what’s another week, right?