OEM 0W-30 ?? What are you using?

[ThatKasper]

Reviving an old thread but think it's warranted.

My 2016 X5M (F85) eats exactly 1 quart of oil on long continuous trips (~900mi) & I'm on one now. I always keep 2 quarts as spares in the boot & at my dealer/service dept. recommendation I use the BMW brand Twin Turbo 0w-30. I used my last spare this week & the local dealers where I am right now (Dallas, TX) say there is a serious shortage across the US & suggested I find Castrol in the meantime.

Long story short: as of Jan 2022 the recommendation is still 0w-30 which is also on my under-hood decal. I live in Denver, CO & the recommendation there is the same year round.

[Qsilver7]

From the BMW TIS in regards to LL-01 oils:

[Qsilver7]

From the BMW TIS in regards to LL-04 oils:

[Qsilver7]

From the BMW TIS in regards to FE (fuel efficient) LL-12/LL-14/LL-17 oils:

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by ThatKasper

Reviving an old thread but think it's warranted.

My 2016 X5M (F85) eats exactly 1 quart of oil on long continuous trips (~900mi) & I'm on one now. I always keep 2 quarts as spares in the boot & at my dealer/service dept. recommendation I use the BMW brand Twin Turbo 0w-30. I used my last spare this week & the local dealers where I am right now (Dallas, TX) say there is a serious shortage across the US & suggested I find Castrol in the meantime.

Long story short: as of Jan 2022 the recommendation is still 0w-30 which is also on my under-hood decal. I live in Denver, CO & the recommendation there is the same year round.

Look in your owners manual and on board computer to see if your vehicle calls for LL01 or LL01-FE. If it's LL01 you have a ton of choices as posted here and in other threads. I've done a lot of research on here, Bob The Oil Guy, and other places, and Motul Sport 5W40 is the best I've found thus far hands down because it has the highest flash point and lowest Noack value - https://smile.amazon.com/MOTUL-10570...ps%2C80&sr=8-1

If it's LL01-FE (or you want to stick with 0W30) you are narrowed down to a handful of oils. My vehicle specifies LL01-FE. I started out using the OEM oil while I figured this out, and I now use Red Line 0W30 after researching Motul, Liqui Moly, and others - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

Hope that helps.

[J0hnnyB0yx5m]

Guess I'm using the wrong stuff lol I've been using this since I got the truck and everything seems to be fine.. only thing can't fine is magnetic drain plug..

[ekological]

I would not recommend that oil. My F85 went into the last service under warranty on 5/29/2020 with 29550 miles, so it was filled with BMW oil. By July, 2020 I was at 36483 miles and decided to change oil and used the LiquiMoly 5W30 Special Tec LL Engine Oil from FCP along with a bottle of the Mos2 additive. Unfortunately, I didn't or don't recall going into the vehicle's computer to check the oil level prior to changing, but I don't think it used any oil at all. Not even 3000 miles later with the LiquiMoly and I get a low oil warning. I had to add a quart to get it to the max fill line. I was going to try Castrol Edge 0W40 euro oil, but the thread about engine failure has me gun shy. I ordered 9 bottles of BMW oil from FCP and might just continue to use that.

Originally Posted by SupersixM

Just changed brand completely. 0W-30 but Liqui Moly Special Tec instead. I know shops push brands but i hear nothing but good stuff on the brand. Recommended by and ordered from FCPEuro so ill see come this weekend.

[ThatKasper]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

Look in your owners manual and on board computer to see if your vehicle calls for LL01 or LL01-FE. If it's LL01 you have a ton of choices as posted here and in other threads. I've done a lot of research on here, Bob The Oil Guy, and other places, and Motul Sport 5W40 is the best I've found thus far hands down because it has the highest flash point and lowest Noack value - https://smile.amazon.com/MOTUL-10570...ps%2C80&sr=8-1

If it's LL01-FE (or you want to stick with 0W30) you are narrowed down to a handful of oils. My vehicle specifies LL01-FE. I started out using the OEM oil while I figured this out, and I now use Red Line 0W30 after researching Motul, Liqui Moly, and others - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

Hope that helps.

Yup, that helps a lot, thanks! Off to do some research now.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by ThatKasper

Yup, that helps a lot, thanks! Off to do some research now.

No idea how this happened, but the Motul Sport I recommended is not LL01 compatible. (I know I saw it a while ago, but apparently I'm going crazy or something...)

Apparently the Red Line I recommended is not BMW approved despite being "FE" rated.

After going back and forth in another thread here, I came to the conclusion that I'll probably move to the Motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 5W-40. Upgraded oil, seems to be very safe since it's LL01 and has a ton of OEM approvals/certifications.

https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...ess-gen2-5w-40

[YvesD]

I'm using Shell Helix Ultra 5 - 40 LL01 the moment which is an approved grade in the manual.

Engine runs slightly quieter and smoother than the 0 - 30 grade, starts perfectly, no discernable increase in fuel consumption.

Will get the oil tested as always when I do my next change.
👍

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by YvesD

I'm using Shell Helix Ultra 5 - 40 LL01 the moment which is an approved grade in the manual.

Engine runs slightly quieter and smoother than the 0 - 30 grade, starts perfectly, no discernable increase in fuel consumption.

Will get the oil tested as always when I do my next change.
👍

I have no opinion about the oil. Just an FYI, I randomly found a group of Ferrari guys talking about how that oil is known to foam for some reason.

Just wanted you to have the heads up.

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

I have no opinion about the oil. Just an FYI, I randomly found a group of Ferrari guys talking about how that oil is known to foam for some reason.

Just wanted you to have the heads up.

Would be useful to know how they came to observe that, strange as its Ferraris reccomend oil.

I'm going to use Liqui Molly next time in the same grade.

👍

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by YvesD

Would be useful to know how they came to observe that, strange as its Ferraris reccomend oil.

I'm going to use Liqui Molly next time in the same grade.

��

I know, weird...

Up to you. But I've done some research before and over the past few days. There are a couple of Motul and Red Line oils that have better specs than the Liqui Moly 0W30 as far as I could tell. (I looked it up because I'm in the middle of an oil switch myself...)

FWIW if you're inclined, check out:

- Red Line 0W30 (Not BMW approved, but performance designed to replace LL01-FE oil with an extremely low pour point and other numbers are good)

- Motul 8100 X-Max 0W40 (Not BMW approved but on par with LL01 and seems like an excellent oil with a great HTHS)

- Motul 8100 X-Cess gen2 5W40 (BMW LL01 approved, same flash point and pour point as the 0W40 - pour point is one reason why we buy the 0 weight? - with a higher HTHS, this seems like the silver bullet go-to from now on especially in summer and/or if tuned)

Oil can be debated for weeks, so not trying to impose my views on your oil choice. Just wanted to share what I've learned over the past few days.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

I know, weird...

Up to you. But I've done some research before and over the past few days. There are a couple of Motul and Red Line oils that have better specs than the Liqui Moly 0W30 as far as I could tell. (I looked it up because I'm in the middle of an oil switch myself...)

FWIW if you're inclined, check out:

- Red Line 0W30 (Not BMW approved, but performance designed to replace LL01-FE oil with an extremely low pour point and other numbers are good)

- Motul 8100 X-Max 0W40 (Not BMW approved but on par with LL01 and seems like an excellent oil with a great HTHS)

- Motul 8100 X-Cess gen2 5W40 (BMW LL01 approved, same flash point and pour point as the 0W40 - pour point is one reason why we buy the 0 weight? - with a higher HTHS, this seems like the silver bullet go-to from now on especially in summer and/or if tuned)

Oil can be debated for weeks, so not trying to impose my views on your oil choice. Just wanted to share what I've learned over the past few days.

No, pour point is not related to 0W or 5W.
Pour point is measurement that uses gravity to determine flow. Irrelevant from engine start point as your oil pump is pulling oil. Pour point is good indicator of base stocks used. Generally oils with pour point -35 to -45 have a lot of Group III oils or are 100% Group III (hydrocracked mineral oil base). I say generally as some Ester based or PAO based oils also have that pour point but that is bcs. they use very heavy base stock to bump HTHS (for example Motul 300V).
What determines 0W or 15W etc. ratings are Cold Cranking Pumpability values. They are measured at different temperatures. Basically 0W has to have same CCP value at -35 as 5W at -30. Pour point is not indicative of good CCP.
But, you still can get good idea about winter performance.
Castrol 0W40 has Pour point of -57, and Redline 5W40 of -60 (I think). But, Castrol has better pumpability. Reason why Redline has such low pour point are ester base stocks (Castrol is PAO).

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

No, pour point is not related to 0W or 5W.
Pour point is measurement that uses gravity to determine flow. Irrelevant from engine start point as your oil pump is pulling oil. Pour point is good indicator of base stocks used. Generally oils with pour point -35 to -45 have a lot of Group III oils or are 100% Group III (hydrocracked mineral oil base). I say generally as some Ester based or PAO based oils also have that pour point but that is bcs. they use very heavy base stock to bump HTHS (for example Motul 300V).
What determines 0W or 15W etc. ratings are Cold Cranking Pumpability values. They are measured at different temperatures. Basically 0W has to have same CCP value at -35 as 5W at -30. Pour point is not indicative of good CCP.
But, you still can get good idea about winter performance.
Castrol 0W40 has Pour point of -57, and Redline 5W40 of -60 (I think). But, Castrol has better pumpability. Reason why Redline has such low pour point are ester base stocks (Castrol is PAO).

And I continue to learn!

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

No, pour point is not related to 0W or 5W.
Pour point is measurement that uses gravity to determine flow. Irrelevant from engine start point as your oil pump is pulling oil. Pour point is good indicator of base stocks used. Generally oils with pour point -35 to -45 have a lot of Group III oils or are 100% Group III (hydrocracked mineral oil base). I say generally as some Ester based or PAO based oils also have that pour point but that is bcs. they use very heavy base stock to bump HTHS (for example Motul 300V).
What determines 0W or 15W etc. ratings are Cold Cranking Pumpability values. They are measured at different temperatures. Basically 0W has to have same CCP value at -35 as 5W at -30. Pour point is not indicative of good CCP.
But, you still can get good idea about winter performance.
Castrol 0W40 has Pour point of -57, and Redline 5W40 of -60 (I think). But, Castrol has better pumpability. Reason why Redline has such low pour point are ester base stocks (Castrol is PAO).

So let me over analyze this a bit more...

How does the CCP for the X-Max compare to the CCP for the Excess gen 2?

Was thinking about using the X-Max during the colder months. (Great stats and an HTHS of 3.6) and the Excess gen2 during warmer months (Great stats and an HTHS of 3.8)

Factor in a Carbahn Stage I flash tune on both, with some spring/summer/fall track days, and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

So let me over analyze this a bit more...

How does the CCP for the X-Max compare to the CCP for the Excess gen 2?

Was thinking about using the X-Max during the colder months. (Great stats and an HTHS of 3.6) and the Excess gen2 during warmer months (Great stats and an HTHS of 3.8)

Factor in a Carbahn Stage I flash tune on both, with some spring/summer/fall track days, and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

In any lower 48 5W is ok.
I started my 35d with 5W40 oil at -40 here in CO.
X-Cesss GEN2 is more than sufficient.
X-Max is nothing special. Boths Castrol 0W40 and Mobil1 0W40 are better.
Reason is correlation of KV100 and HTHS.
X-Max is 13.5cst and HTHS 3.64cp.
Castrol is 13.1 but HTHS is 3.7.
Mobil1 is 12.9 and 3.6.
Lower KV100 and higher HTHS indicate better base stocks.
X-Max is mostly Group III oil. Both Castrol and Mobil1 are step up from X-Max.
Now, take this into consideration. Lower KV100 will perform better during warm up phase of an engine. That is why BMW uses FE oils as many owners never warm up oil to operating temperature. So 5W30 LL01 oil is actually better choice for winter than 0W40 unless you are starting vehicle below-30 degrees. Than 0WXX has clear advantages.
IMO, best oil for European vehicles in summer and winter unless tracking vehicle is this Castrol. It is just too expensive to justify advantages over 0W40 which is basically thicker brother.

Castrol - 152B99-6PK 06244 Edge A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 1 Quart, 6 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007G7PUMS...UTF8&psc=1

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

In any lower 48 5W is ok.
I started my 35d with 5W40 oil at -40 here in CO.
X-Cesss GEN2 is more than sufficient.
X-Max is nothing special. Boths Castrol 0W40 and Mobil1 0W40 are better.
Reason is correlation of KV100 and HTHS.
X-Max is 13.5cst and HTHS 3.64cp.
Castrol is 13.1 but HTHS is 3.7.
Mobil1 is 12.9 and 3.6.
Lower KV100 and higher HTHS indicate better base stocks.
X-Max is mostly Group III oil. Both Castrol and Mobil1 are step up from X-Max.
Now, take this into consideration. Lower KV100 will perform better during warm up phase of an engine. That is why BMW uses FE oils as many owners never warm up oil to operating temperature. So 5W30 LL01 oil is actually better choice for winter than 0W40 unless you are starting vehicle below-30 degrees. Than 0WXX has clear advantages.
IMO, best oil for European vehicles in summer and winter unless tracking vehicle is this Castrol. It is just too expensive to justify advantages over 0W40 which is basically thicker brother.

Castrol - 152B99-6PK 06244 Edge A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 1 Quart, 6 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007G7PUMS...ing=UTF8&psc=1

Now you through THIS into the mix! You recommend this Castrol over the Xcess gen2 in both winter and summer? Even tuned?

I'm not concerned about the price of any oil, figure it's the least I can do for my rig. I just want the best.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

Now you through THIS into the mix! You recommend this Castrol over the Xcess gen2 in both winter and summer? Even tuned?

I'm not concerned about the price of any oil, figure it's the least I can do for my rig. I just want the best.

If you are not tracking your car, Castrol 0W30 is all you need.
Remember: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary!
0W30 will create bit less heat than 0W40 (two comparable Castrol's). This 0W30 (in Europe originally called SLX) was initial fill on Audi S4 and RS4. HTHS of 3.58 but KV100 11.6. You can't get better than that.
What matters in your tuned engine is oil temperature! That is it. What temperature you are running?

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

If you are not tracking your car, Castrol 0W30 is all you need.
Remember: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary!
0W30 will create bit less heat than 0W40 (two comparable Castrol's). This 0W30 (in Europe originally called SLX) was initial fill on Audi S4 and RS4. HTHS of 3.58 but KV100 11.6. You can't get better than that.
What matters in your tuned engine is oil temperature! That is it. What temperature you are running?

Right now stock and running right around 200-206F. Have not tuned yet so no idea of if/how that might change the temp. But it would only be a Stage I tune if I did it.

I really like that Xcess gen2 you turned me on to. the 40V and 100V are both high (you want it high right? with 3.8 HTHS.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

Right now stock and running right around 200-206F. Have not tuned yet so no idea of if/how that might change the temp. But it would only be a Stage I tune if I did it.

I really like that Xcess gen2 you turned me on to. the 40V and 100V are both high (you want it high right? with 3.8 HTHS.

200-206f? That is really low! I think BMW does that to cool off engine as much as possible. It is really not good as oil temperature should always be above 212f. But, I think BMW does it to prevent failures known on N/S63.
It this case you really want XW30 oil when not on track. I personally would go this Castrol 0W30.
You want HTHS in 3.5-4cp range (on track possibly minimum 3.6). With that HTHS you want as low as possible KV100. Hypothetically, KV100 14.2 and HTHS 3.7 are average values. KV100 13.1 and HTHS 3.7 are really good values. You see where I am getting to?

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

200-206f? That is really low! I think BMW does that to cool off engine as much as possible. It is really not good as oil temperature should always be above 212f. But, I think BMW does it to prevent failures known on N/S63.
It this case you really want XW30 oil when not on track. I personally would go this Castrol 0W30.
You want HTHS in 3.5-4cp range (on track possibly minimum 3.6). With that HTHS you want as low as possible KV100. Hypothetically, KV100 14.2 and HTHS 3.7 are average values. KV100 13.1 and HTHS 3.7 are really good values. You see where I am getting to?

Okay so lower KV100 is better?

What do you think about HTHS 3.4 and KV100 11.7 lower temps/non track and 3.8/13.5 higher temps/some track?