BMW X5 and X6 Forum 2014-Current
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW X5 and X6 Forum (F15/F16) > BMW X5 (F15) and BMW X6 (F16) Forum > BMW X5 and X6 (F15/F16) Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-11-2015, 08:37 AM   #1
X5Jouster
Lieutenant
X5Jouster's Avatar
110
Rep
525
Posts

Drives: X5 xDrive50I Msport
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boca Raton FL

iTrader: (0)

my issue with Time For first sched service(and YOUR first oil change mileage)

Time for first scheduled service issue

my x5 50i msport is going in for its first service soon.

dealer is requiring the car actually be at the predetermined mileage shown in the vehicle info system to take the free first service.

im already at 5900 miles , and its still telling me 1000 miles out, 05/2015.

no way. i was going to go pay for an intermediate oil change , but rather, wanted to see how quickly the car would ask for the service. i never wait past 5,000 miles for first change, but its so close to 1st service now it doesn't make sense.

wish they would let me take the free inspection/oil change maintenance, early.
or at least offer to not do the oil change at first service.


now, who agrees with this? i was not thinking i would be passed 5000 miles before first change, because i have never done this.

who thinks i should just go for the self service then bring it in for service when it requires,

And what other mileages has everyone completed the first oil change service? lets see everyones response
__________________

Last edited by X5Jouster; 02-11-2015 at 08:39 AM.. Reason: expand on topic
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 09:13 AM   #2
wjbender
Captain
wjbender's Avatar
United_States
345
Rep
781
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 40i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NJ - Jersey Shore

iTrader: (0)

I plan to change the oil at 5000 in my X5 35d
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 09:23 AM   #3
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

This is a debate that has been going for years and likely will continue to do so for years to come….

I tend to listen to the people that manufacture the car, so I've never brought it in before the recommended service. I'm by no means no expert on automobile engines, nor engines of any kind, so I listen to the company that is

Full disclosure, I usually lease and even when I purchase, I tend to get a new car every 2 to 3 years. Have never, and probably will never, keep a car for 10 years. But that doesn't change the fact the the people making and warrantying these engines do not require nor recommend service at 5000 miles.

That aside, BMW is clear on what is included, all recommended service. If you choose to do it sooner, that's your choice, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses on both sides of the argument. But, you have no justification asking them to pay for it…. Doesn't sound like you are expecting that, so I guess my vote is if you really want it now, pay for it then get your free service when the car tells you it's ready.

But I always just wait until the car says it needs service, and have never had any issues. I think the first service on my 335 was around 18,000 miles. 90% of that was highway over a short period of time, less than a year. That was before they changed recommended service to 10,000. I'm now at only 22,000 after another year, so I'll take it in for a 12 month service instead of waiting what may be another year before I actually reach the mileage where the car will say it needs service. That, BMW does cover (service every 12 months even if not at mileage).. At least they used to, will find out next week if they still do..

Last edited by chrisny; 02-11-2015 at 12:00 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:06 PM   #4
NPickles
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
71
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: F15 40D SE Space Grey/Terra
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Nottingham UK

iTrader: (0)

My F15 40D is not due a service until 18k miles, already done nearly 12k in 6 months so not much longer.

I am kind of surprised that there is no initial 'check' after 1k or 2k miles, just to make sure everything is okay before too much damage is done were something to be wrong and to make sure no crap has been left anywhere from the manufacturing and assembly but that would cost money and I suppose we have to trust that the manufacturer, BMW, knows what they are doing.

At the end of the day why would they push the service interval at the expense of reliability, one sure way to get bad press and bad feedback.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:15 PM   #5
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPickles View Post
My F15 40D is not due a service until 18k miles, already done nearly 12k in 6 months so not much longer.

I am kind of surprised that there is no initial 'check' after 1k or 2k miles, just to make sure everything is okay before too much damage is done were something to be wrong and to make sure no crap has been left anywhere from the manufacturing and assembly but that would cost money and I suppose we have to trust the manufacturer, BMW, knows what they are doing.

At the end of the day why would they push the service interval at the expense of reliability, one sure way to get bad press and bad feedback.
Exactly. And should any resulting issues arise under warranty, that's added cost to them as well. Whether they are just playing the odds, maybe their analysis showed it to be cheaper to cover service less often and pay for any resulting repairs, or they truly believe 10,000 is the earliest it needs to be done based on modern synthetic oils and engine parts. I tend to believe the latter. Devil's advocate may ask why they changed it to 10k after so many years of 15, but I still trust they know what they're doing with the cars they engineer and manufacture. They are a Motor company, after all. Further, even companies that don't include recommended maintenance anymore still use 10k or more intervals, rather than using smaller intervals and increasing service revenue.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:23 PM   #6
r33_RGSport
General
r33_RGSport's Avatar
United_States
12805
Rep
18,628
Posts

Drives: G09 XM, G05 X5 40, 991.2 T
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (6)

X5Jouster , just call and schedule for service. Usually the dealer will take it in within 1000 miles of next due service.
And keep in mind that that 1000 miles indicator is rounded up. From 1000 miles, I think it drop to 500 miles, then 100 miles increment (if I remember correctly).
My dealer usually call me even when I am about 1000+ miles out.
__________________
Email:sales@rgsport.com | IG:RGSport_USA | Web:RGSportShop.com
March SALES!! Evolution Racewerks - Until 04/01 | PM for DEALS
MSS • iSweep • RaceChip • Sterckenn • AutoTecknic • Akrapovic • Vossen Wheels • Eventuri
Active Autowerke • KW • H&R • Ohlins • Remus • and more...
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:25 PM   #7
aas5
Captain
171
Rep
901
Posts

Drives: 2022 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

It's 15K on my x6m until the first oil change. I am sticking with it. I would think the car company that is able to bring to market these wonderful cars knows what its' recommending.
__________________
Sold: 2020 X7 M50 White Mineral with Ivory & Blue, 2017 X6M Long Beach Blue with Mugello Red, 2014 X6M Monte Carlo Blue with Mugello Red, 2011 X6 5.0 Black on Black, 2008 E350 4Matic Silver, 2006 Infiniti M45 Diamond Graphite
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:55 PM   #8
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by r33 View Post
X5Jouster , just call and schedule for service. Usually the dealer will take it in within 1000 miles of next due service.
And keep in mind that that 1000 miles indicator is rounded up. From 1000 miles, I think it drop to 500 miles, then 100 miles increment (if I remember correctly).
My dealer usually call me even when I am about 1000+ miles out.
I actually agree. I was too focused on the 5000 vs 10000, forgot the OP said his car was telling him he'll be due in 1000 miles (i.e. 6900). So I agree with r33, once you're inside 1000, they usually take it in. OP, you must do a lot of local driving for it to be telling you you'll be due at 6900? I have also seen mine sit at the same mileage for long periods of time though, but that was when I was driving long distances on a daily basis.

You know what bugs me though, my dealer doesn't call me. My old dealer before I moved would call me in advance like r33 said, tell me I'm coming due and I would schedule it right then on the phone. I can also remember getting system generated emails and even paper mailings from my current dealer telling me service is needed soon. But now, I'll get in my car and realize I'm overdue with no word from them. By the time I get settled into the car, after getting the kids in, then I'm backing out of the garage, etc.. I often don't notice the service indicator, it goes off too quickly. Didn't that used to stay on when you were almost due or at least when you're overdue??? I keep meaning to ask them why they aren't proactive anymore. Why do I have this expensive, intelligent key in my pocket if I still have to tell them what my car needs

Last edited by chrisny; 02-11-2015 at 03:32 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 12:57 PM   #9
r33_RGSport
General
r33_RGSport's Avatar
United_States
12805
Rep
18,628
Posts

Drives: G09 XM, G05 X5 40, 991.2 T
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
You know what bugs me, my dealer doesn't call me. My old dealer before I moved would call me in advance like you said, tell me I'm coming due and I would schedule it right then on the phone. I can also remember getting system generated emails and even paper mailings from my current dealer telling me service is needed soon. But now, I'll get in my car and realize I'm overdue with no word from them. By the time I get settled into the car, after getting the kids in, then I'm backing out of the garage, etc.. I often don't notice the service indicator, it goes off too quickly. Didn't that used to stay on when you were almost due or at least when you're overdue??? I keep meaning to ask them why they aren't proactive anymore. Why do I have this expensive, intelligent key in my pocket if I still have to tell them what my car needs
You may want to start giving them something in the survey report. I've heard the BMWNA goes over that, not the dealership themselves.
__________________
Email:sales@rgsport.com | IG:RGSport_USA | Web:RGSportShop.com
March SALES!! Evolution Racewerks - Until 04/01 | PM for DEALS
MSS • iSweep • RaceChip • Sterckenn • AutoTecknic • Akrapovic • Vossen Wheels • Eventuri
Active Autowerke • KW • H&R • Ohlins • Remus • and more...
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 01:17 PM   #10
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by r33 View Post
You may want to start giving them something in the survey report. I've heard the BMWNA goes over that, not the dealership themselves.
I've never actually brought it up, so I'll ask about it when I take the 335 in next week and give them a chance to rectify it going forward first. Not a big deal, but it is one of those little things that's supposed to be part of " the experience…"

Last edited by chrisny; 02-11-2015 at 01:24 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 01:25 PM   #11
cenix
Captain
cenix's Avatar
United_States
379
Rep
875
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Let's be honest, if it's a lease I don't care as much and will follow the recommended schedules the car is telling me. If I own it (like I currently do), I'm going to change the oil at intervals I feel comfortable with. For me, it's always been around 5k miles or 6 months.

However, modern engines are generally seeing longer intervals like 7,500k-10k miles, which actually is fine as long as the oil has enough protective additives still active in the oil. The only way to be sure if you're anal and want empirical data is to send in samples to Blackstone and have them analyze it. That will tell you if you need to change more often or if you can run the oil for longer intervals.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 01:31 PM   #12
Baunton
Major
Baunton's Avatar
England
318
Rep
1,368
Posts

Drives: X5 45e 2021
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Hams

iTrader: (0)

Does it invalidate the warranty with the car in any way if you get oil change/service other than as specified by BMW?

I'm with NPickles & chrisny and go with what the manufactures specify for the car they design and build.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 01:37 PM   #13
cenix
Captain
cenix's Avatar
United_States
379
Rep
875
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baunton View Post
Does it invalidate the warranty with the car in any way if you get oil change/service other than as specified by BMW?

I'm with NPickles & chrisny and go with what the manufactures specify for the car they design and build.
From what I understand, as long as you are changing the oil with the appropriate recommended weight/spec of oil and with an appropriate oil filter, and you save your receipts, then the warranty should not be invalidated. Unless BMW can prove that the oil change was done improperly and with improper products not designed for the car.

Best bet is to get a BMW oil filter, use the proper spec/weight oil, change yourself, and save receipts and you're good.
Appreciate 1
      02-11-2015, 01:58 PM   #14
Armen383
First Lieutenant
Armen383's Avatar
Cyprus
82
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: Mercedes-Benz E63S
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Limassol

iTrader: (0)

If you ever looked inside the current engines taken apart, you'd notice that they are not made to last. Moreover, BMW recommended oils (Castrol before 2015 and Shell afterwards) are nowhere near close to what any car engineer/specialist would consider a good motor oil. Therefore, 10000 km is the max interval for an oil change - don't believe in those 20-30k marketing service intervals...
However, if you tend to keep your car up to 20-50 thousand km (i.e. 2 years) it really doesn't matter, you might as well piss inside the oil tank. But if you plan to do some serious mileage and run the engine hard, make a smart choice.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 02:05 PM   #15
cenix
Captain
cenix's Avatar
United_States
379
Rep
875
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

^ out of curiosity, can you explain what shows within the engine taken apart that they are not meant to last?
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 02:09 PM   #16
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armen383 View Post
If you ever looked inside the current engines taken apart, you'd notice that they are not made to last. Moreover, BMW recommended oils (Castrol before 2015 and Shell afterwards) are nowhere near close to what any car engineer/specialist would consider a good motor oil. Therefore, 10000 km is the max interval for an oil change - don't believe in those 20-30k marketing service intervals...
However, if you tend to keep your car up to 20-50 thousand km (i.e. 2 years) it really doesn't matter, you might as well piss inside the oil tank. But if you plan to do some serious mileage and run the engine hard, make a smart choice.
Ok, I'll be sure to remember that next time I need to go…. "Marketing service intervals," seriously? BMW didn't just start operating this way, they're not the only ones that do, and I'm pretty sure lots of people still buy cars and drive them for many years and miles/km. In fact, I see tons of very old BMW's still running around and I highly doubt every single one of them disregards BMW's recommendations from day 1 of ownership. And like I said, Audi, MB, etc.. what's their reasoning for the same intervals, since they're no longer marketing any included maintenance?

Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert. I simply trust that BMW knows what they're doing and hasn't been recklessly making these recommendations for decades. I have no issue with people doing it in half the time, maybe it's a waste of money, but that's only if you don't put value on the piece of mind their buying themselves. I don't think it's necessary and wouldn't feel any different if I were keeping the car for 10 years instead of 2 or 3. Just because I don't intend to keep it until it dies, doesn't mean I don't take good care of it. Further, the 10,000 BMW recommends isn't even hard and fast, as evidenced by some people's cars registering a need at 5900 and some at well over 10,000. What then, of the software developed in the car to analyze the use of the car and determine maintenance requirements? What's the marketing angle there?

Last edited by chrisny; 02-11-2015 at 02:36 PM..
Appreciate 1
      02-11-2015, 04:06 PM   #17
r33_RGSport
General
r33_RGSport's Avatar
United_States
12805
Rep
18,628
Posts

Drives: G09 XM, G05 X5 40, 991.2 T
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (6)

chrisny , just don't be like this guy the next time you visit the dealership and not getting what you wanted.
__________________
Email:sales@rgsport.com | IG:RGSport_USA | Web:RGSportShop.com
March SALES!! Evolution Racewerks - Until 04/01 | PM for DEALS
MSS • iSweep • RaceChip • Sterckenn • AutoTecknic • Akrapovic • Vossen Wheels • Eventuri
Active Autowerke • KW • H&R • Ohlins • Remus • and more...
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 04:58 PM   #18
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by r33
chrisny , just don't be like this guy the next time you visit the dealership and not getting what you wanted.
http://<div class="youtube-playerCon.../iframe></div>
Gotta love the persistence lol. And the employee knocking on the window around 1:57. "Excuse me, do you know you're inside the showroom with your car? You can't be in here sir."
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 07:38 PM   #19
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
1272
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Anyone considering changing oil ahead of schedule, should read this thread, starting with post #67, (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=822954&page=3) and specifically comments by carythelableguy, who claims to be a dyno tuner and has worked for a renowned tuning company. Despite being insulted, he rebuttals with poised and well toned comments. The jest of the message is how to break-in, seating the piston rings, and first oil change. And, he states don't change the oil, follow the break-in procedure of the manufacturer, or seat the piston rings.
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK
Appreciate 1
      02-11-2015, 08:46 PM   #20
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
547
Rep
3,307
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
Anyone considering changing oil ahead of schedule, should read this thread, starting with post #67, (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=822954&page=3) and specifically comments by carythelableguy, who claims to be a dyno tuner and has worked for a renowned tuning company. Despite being insulted, he rebuttals with poised and well toned comments. The jest of the message is how to break-in, seating the piston rings, and first oil change. And, he states don't change the oil, follow the break-in procedure of the manufacturer, or seat the piston rings.
Good find. The additives he's talking about from factory fill certainly sheds some light on this conversation. I'm assuming those who want to change every 5000 after the first one at 10,000 can do so without harm (other than possibly wasting a small amount of money), but doing at the first 5000 sounds like could actually be harmful, not just mildly wasteful…..
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2015, 09:36 PM   #21
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
589
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
Anyone considering changing oil ahead of schedule, should read this thread, starting with post #67, (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=822954&page=3) and specifically comments by carythelableguy, who claims to be a dyno tuner and has worked for a renowned tuning company. Despite being insulted, he rebuttals with poised and well toned comments. The jest of the message is how to break-in, seating the piston rings, and first oil change. And, he states don't change the oil, follow the break-in procedure of the manufacturer, or seat the piston rings.
I hate this...

BMW does not add additives to their break-in oil. As many engines as I have built, including my own, the break-in oil I used was always Rotella - it has high levels of zinc and moly. These are lubricants to help with rotating parts and aids in the break-in for most type engines (especially older flat-tappet, flat 6 Porsche motors for example). So what would the additives do? If they have friction modifiers, then your engine will never break in. We use mineral oil for the aviation engines after a rebuild, but this is really to SEAT the rings since you do not constantly accel and decel your engines - at least you shouldn't . Also, some aviation and older road engines use cast steel rings which require mineral oil since they are not as hard as moly rings and wear quickly. Additives are no longer needed with modern engines.

As for the break-in process he uses, ok. It works for him somehow. He is right about: don't idle your motor needlessly within the first couple hundred miles, never jump in your car and put 500 road miles on it immediately, try to drive in the city going through the gears (similar to his statements) to SEAT the rings - this is under power and deceleration, and heat cycling. The cylinders of an engine are finely cross-hatched (almost etched if you will) to gently wear the rings within the first 500 - 1000 miles and create a tight fit between the piston and cylinder walls. I always tell my engine people to drive normally. If it's turbo charged, you work your way up to full boost in the first 500 - 800 miles. The 300 miles delta depends on how you drive it - lots of throttle changes.

Each engine is broke-in from the factory. This is a fact and this is when they use specific lubricants for the rotating parts. This is not the same as seating your rings. Each engine must run for a certain amount of time at the factory to heat cycle the cam(s) and crank. For a Porsche, it's 20 minutes at 2,000 rpm. It is the very first thing I do before doing anything else to a motor - even if it is running pig rich or lean. Then, I drain the oil, inspect the oil for metal, cut the oil filter open to inspect for foreign material, then fill with normal oil. If you want proof, google cam break-in paying attention to cam manufacturers (like Crane), not magazine articles or forums. The remaining 500+ miles or so, you are seating rings.

This is hotly debated and lots of strong opinions. I've been building, rebuilding and modifying engines since 1978, and the above are my opinions based on all those years - and lots of reliable, powerful motors. Let me know if you want to see pics.

update
-------
I found some old pics of cylinders I used. The cylinders with the black coating are aluminum Nikasil coated cylinders that show the cross hatching very well. These cylinders require cast rings - soft material but very brittle. The other picture shows custom CNC steel sleeved cylinder with cross hatching. These require steel moly rings. Both cylinders require a specific seating process and after heat cycling the cams, is the most important part of breaking in your engine. Follow the manufacturers instructions to be sure.

And yes, I change my oil every 5000 miles regardless. Diesels produce a lot of soot and the oil get acidic over time. I change it myself, so I get to inspect the oil as well as save money. I use the brand that BMW recommends - Castrol.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport

Last edited by 42pilot; 02-11-2015 at 09:55 PM..
Appreciate 4
      02-11-2015, 09:50 PM   #22
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
1272
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I hate this...

...... If you want proof, google cam break-in paying attention to cam manufacturers (like Crane), not magazine articles or forums. The remaining 500+ miles or so, you are seating rings.

This is hotly debated and lots of strong opinions. I've been building, rebuilding and modifying engines since 1978, and the above are my opinions based on all those years - and lots of reliable, powerful motors. Let me know if you want to see pics.
I don't need proof, I have you guys. This is very educational. At the end, it seems, in most cases, just follow the manufacturer's instructions for break in and oil change. The only thing that comes to my mind to improve on the process is to change the filter, even if the oil is unchanged in between the recommended cycles.

Thank you.
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST