To Tune Or Not To Tune

[BobBeau]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

So if we take warranty off the table, b/c it seems like the answer for any type of tune is "buyer beware", what tune is less likely to cause issues? For example, is the primary factor how far the engine is pushed, so a tune like BPC that squeezes out a ton of horsepower will put more strain on an engine vs. a "safer" tune like Racechip?

I guess the point of my question is that it's always an unknown of what a repair shop will do if they find out the engine is tuned (regardless of removing the piggyback or re-flashing the ECU to stock), but what tune, or configurations of that tune, are most likely to *avoid* the repair shop all together? And let's assume I'm driving quick 10% of the time & not WOT at every stop :-)

If you go with a tune like BPC or BM3 then you'll probably end up replacing your coils to new ones and swapping the stock plugs for something else. A few of us went with the X5M plugs. When I first installed the tune, it was a few days before I actually hammered down on the gas pedal. The tune makes so much power down low that you really don't need to floor it (especially in sport mode). When I did get it on the interstate and made a WOT run, it immediately went into limp mode. I pulled over, turned the ignition off, restarted and everything was fine. BM3 has excellent customer service, although, there is no phone support. Everything is done through their website and 'TeamViewer' which is an app that allows them to take control of your computer while plugged into the OBDII port of your car. They are, however, very helpful and pointed me in the right direction. After changing the plugs to X5M plugs I was still having the same issue and getting the same misfire codes. Note: returning the tune back to stock and performing WOT runs would not duplicate the issue. All was fine with the stock tune. I brought it to the dealer and they confirmed it was the #8 coil. They swapped the coil for a new one and I went on my way. Instead of immediately reinstalling the tune, I went ahead and ordered 7 more coils and replaced the remaining original ones (at this time my x5 had 45k on it). I think I got them on sale for about $20 each. Yes they are genuine BMW, bosch coils with matching part #'s. I pulled all the plugs that I had just installed to check them and installed the new coils. I know this sounds like a pain but this only took about 2 hours and that's including beer breaks. The hardest part for me was getting the rear most coils out. There's a DIY on this forum that Maverick?? did that was incredibly helpful. It provides step by step instructions with pictures as well. I haven't had a hiccup since replacing the coils. You may not encounter the issue at all, this was just my experience. The vehicle runs like a bat out of hell and I couldn't be happier. I find it's a bit lazy in comfort mode until you really put your foot into it but sport mode is beast. WARNING: You WILL HURT FEELINGS WITH THIS TUNE so be careful racing snowflakes and those seeking safe spaces, therapy dogs or coloring books when offended. No one anticipates a BMW SUV being this fast. A piggyback tune won't give you the power an ECU tune will give you, however, many have installed the piggyback tunes and really like them. I'm not knocking the piggyback tune at all, that being said, if you can, drive one with a piggyback then drive one with an ECU tune. Both will make you smile... One of those smiles will be more memorable than the other . I hope this helps

[hufington]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

So if we take warranty off the table, b/c it seems like the answer for any type of tune is "buyer beware", what tune is less likely to cause issues? For example, is the primary factor how far the engine is pushed, so a tune like BPC that squeezes out a ton of horsepower will put more strain on an engine vs. a "safer" tune like Racechip?

I guess the point of my question is that it's always an unknown of what a repair shop will do if they find out the engine is tuned (regardless of removing the piggyback or re-flashing the ECU to stock), but what tune, or configurations of that tune, are most likely to *avoid* the repair shop all together? And let's assume I'm driving quick 10% of the time & not WOT at every stop :-)

I have been running RC in my last 3 BMW cars and 2 MB cars without any issues. Cumulative mileage is a hard driven 150K.

As to 0-60 times, on my 550, I acchieved 3.9sec according to the PerformanceBox. I have not tried with the X5 yet as it has less than 900 miles on it.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

So if we take warranty off the table, b/c it seems like the answer for any type of tune is "buyer beware", what tune is less likely to cause issues? For example, is the primary factor how far the engine is pushed, so a tune like BPC that squeezes out a ton of horsepower will put more strain on an engine vs. a "safer" tune like Racechip?

I guess the point of my question is that it's always an unknown of what a repair shop will do if they find out the engine is tuned (regardless of removing the piggyback or re-flashing the ECU to stock), but what tune, or configurations of that tune, are most likely to *avoid* the repair shop all together? And let's assume I'm driving quick 10% of the time & not WOT at every stop :-)

My unprofessional opinion is that a true flash is safer than a piggy back as long as you're going with a tuner that has done a ton of them like BM3. If you use their OTS tune, you're fine. If you mess with a custom tuner, you're probably more at risk.

Full disclosure - I have JB4 piggyback on my F30 because that's all that was available 5 years ago. Now that true flashes are available, I went that route with the F15.

[trlengle]

What type of gains are made with the BM3 versus Dinan? Dumb question, it's either one or the other right? If I wanted to go with BM3 I would need to remove Dinan tune. I already feel like the Dinan gives me tons of power so curious what BM3 could deliver.

[on3eighteen]

Originally Posted by trlengle

What type of gains are made with the BM3 versus Dinan? Dumb question, it's either one or the other right? If I wanted to go with BM3 I would need to remove Dinan tune. I already feel like the Dinan gives me tons of power so curious what BM3 could deliver.

Quick question re: your Dinan tune...I know the tune only works w/ mechanical wastegates, not electric. I've been asking dealers which of the 2 the cars have & so far all 2016's have electric. Did you have to go through this process?

[trlengle]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

Quick question re: your Dinan tune...I know the tune only works w/ mechanical wastegates, not electric. I've been asking dealers which of the 2 the cars have & so far all 2016's have electric. Did you have to go through this process?

I do have a 2016 X5 50i and I have the Dinan tune...not sure about the mechanical versus electric as I bought from a private party. I did talk to the shop that installed the Dinan tune, no mention of any issues, etc. I did notice the warning on the Dinan site on the wastegate but assuming 2016 had both options as the part comes up as an option on the Dinan site.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by trlengle

What type of gains are made with the BM3 versus Dinan? Dumb question, it's either one or the other right? If I wanted to go with BM3 I would need to remove Dinan tune. I already feel like the Dinan gives me tons of power so curious what BM3 could deliver.

Stage 1 Dinan approximately 500HP crank
Stage 1 (93oct) BM3 approximately 575HP crank

I'm pretty sure this is accurate but not 100%. Others feel free to correct me as I'm going off of memory.

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by Road Carnage

Ben, do you know the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for the Racechip tune?

I believe there was a guy Droptop that took his 50i to the strip and said it was running I think like 12.3 in the 1/4 with the RC ultimate , that’s like a .3-.4 sec which is pretty good and said it trimmed like almost 1 sec 0-100 mph.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

Quick question re: your Dinan tune...I know the tune only works w/ mechanical wastegates, not electric. I've been asking dealers which of the 2 the cars have & so far all 2016's have electric. Did you have to go through this process?

Yeah, dealers won't even be able to tell you your engine displacement or at best they'll tell you it's 5.0l Don't trust them without double checking (don't trust me either).
AFAIK all 50i f15 (3rd generation) have mechanical wastegate. You can see the vacuum pot visually if you pop-up the engine cover. Same for s63tu x5m engines.
That been said electronic wastegate is just a small electric motor that opens/closes wastegate (instead of vacuum pot that does same thing). So for a flash tune - it doesn't matter as it's all controlled by DME, but for piggybacks it matters as you need additional socket plug for electronic wastegate motor - which is why Dinan asks what kind of wastegate you have. Which leads me to a realization that Dinan might have a piggyback lol instead of a flash tune.
do you know if Dinan tune that you are looking to buy has a box and lots of wires and plugs hanging on it? If yes - then it's a piggyback dude (whispers: and I don't see how it can be any better than same RC piggyback?). Just saying

[Road Carnage]

Originally Posted by CT335xi

I believe there was a guy Droptop that took his 50i to the strip and said it was running I think like 12.3 in the 1/4 with the RC ultimate , that’s like a .3-.4 sec which is pretty good and said it trimmed like almost 1 sec 0-100 mph.

Good info. Another member here, RonJon, is running an Active Autowerke 93 octane tune. Hopefully he will chime in with exact numbers, but he’s running mid 3 second 0-60 times and high 11’s in the 1/4 mile.

[r33_RGSport]

@DuSh , you do put out a lot of info throughout this forum.
All good info.

But let me correct you on one thing.
I am not trying to bash Dinan.
But, IMHO, this what I can say.
Dinan Himself is the best thing that ever happened to BMW Community. While Dinan itself, is less than before when Dinan himself was in the company.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@DuSh , you do put out a lot of info throughout this forum.
All good info.

But let me correct you on one thing.
I am not trying to bash Dinan.
But, IMHO, this what I can say.
Dinan Himself is the best thing that ever happened to BMW Community. While Dinan itself, is less than before when Dinan himself was in the company.

Agree!

[trlengle]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

Quick question re: your Dinan tune...I know the tune only works w/ mechanical wastegates, not electric. I've been asking dealers which of the 2 the cars have & so far all 2016's have electric. Did you have to go through this process?

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@DuSh , you do put out a lot of info throughout this forum.
All good info.

But let me correct you on one thing.
I am not trying to bash Dinan.
But, IMHO, this what I can say.
Dinan Himself is the best thing that ever happened to BMW Community. While Dinan itself, is less than before when Dinan himself was in the company.

How does the RaceChip piggyback compare to Dinan, which I also believe is a piggyback as I have a physical box located in the engine bay. RC give a lot more power over Dinan?

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by trlengle

How does the RaceChip piggyback compare to Dinan, which I also believe is a piggyback as I have a physical box located in the engine bay. RC give a lot more power over Dinan?

Yes, but still in safe range.
It is TUV certified product.
TUV is much stricter organization than DOT or CARB.
So, in order for them to be able to get that certification is unlike US made brand that uses simple resistor and 8-bit chipset.
Quality and performance is proven.
Also, they don't use you as the end user as their Beta tester.

[trlengle]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Yes, but still in safe range.
It is TUV certified product.
TUV is much stricter organization than DOT or CARB.
So, in order for them to be able to get that certification is unlike US made brand that uses simple resistor and 8-bit chipset.
Quality and performance is proven.
Also, they don't use you as the end user as their Beta tester.

So it looks like the GTS Black is the best option to get the most power and all they have to offer for the 50i. I know you are bias but does it even make since to consider pulling out Dinan for the GTS Black for the ~5% gains? I get that maybe if I did not have either I might land on RC (especially since it's more than half the cost) but since I have the Dinan it seems like I might not get a lot more for the RC investment.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by trlengle

So it looks like the GTS Black is the best option to get the most power and all they have to offer for the 50i. I know you are bias but does it even make since to consider pulling out Dinan for the GTS Black for the ~5% gains? I get that maybe if I did not have either I might land on RC (especially since it's more than half the cost) but since I have the Dinan it seems like I might not get a lot more for the RC investment.

Keep in mind that I sell both RaceChip and Dinan.
So it is for you to decide if I am biased or not.

Dinan is a good product, don't get me wrong.
Just IMHO, it is overpriced.
Some of my customers like it and prefer Dinan over anything else.
Some are willing to explore the new options.

Also, I never say bad things about flash tune.
I was just stating the facts and possible situations that may occurs.

Most of car owners now worry so much about warranty.

I personally only do piggies for my daily and for quick enjoyment.
For something serious, I would do ECU tune or even stand alone ECU with dyno tune, not just a simple off the shelves tune.

Back to your concern, if you already have Dinan and happy, then you are good.
Just make sure that your Dinan warranty is carry over. AFAIK, it doesn't.
But, if you are not happy, that's where you asked yourself. How serious are you going to drive the car.

I hope that help.

[on3eighteen]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Yeah, dealers won't even be able to tell you your engine displacement or at best they'll tell you it's 5.0l Don't trust them without double checking (don't trust me either).
AFAIK all 50i f15 (3rd generation) have mechanical wastegate. You can see the vacuum pot visually if you pop-up the engine cover. Same for s63tu x5m engines.
That been said electronic wastegate is just a small electric motor that opens/closes wastegate (instead of vacuum pot that does same thing). So for a flash tune - it doesn't matter as it's all controlled by DME, but for piggybacks it matters as you need additional socket plug for electronic wastegate motor - which is why Dinan asks what kind of wastegate you have. Which leads me to a realization that Dinan might have a piggyback lol instead of a flash tune.
do you know if Dinan tune that you are looking to buy has a box and lots of wires and plugs hanging on it? If yes - then it's a piggyback dude (whispers: and I don't see how it can be any better than same RC piggyback?). Just saying

Yes, the Dinan tune for the 50i is a piggyback. Steve Dinan has this YouTube video where he explains that they couldn't afford taking the time to crack the encryption (or something like that) of the software so they went the piggyback route. He sort of bashes other piggyback tunes that don't do enough things & only increase the boost.

[Koer]

Originally Posted by on3eighteen

Looks like MHD & Bootmod3 only does the v6, not 50i but thanks for helping me find other vendors than Dinan.

I started with the jb4 stage 1 for the x5 50i n63tu, easy to install. that tune basically intercepts the signal from both MAF sensors. Really simple stuff. Gains were noticeable but not enough to bother with imho.

Then sold that tune and got in touch with ESS and got their stage 1 e flash mod (https://esstuning.com/n63tu-stage-1-...-ecu-software/) after payment you get sent an OBD port connection and a usb drive, in it their obd flashing program. Runs in any pc.

Hands down the best after sales service i have gotten from anyone, first they ask you to extract a file from your ecu's so they can read your specs, and they send you a full new map to flash into both your ecus (the process actually runs 2x times because of how this engine is built) and ask you to test it, turns out my truck has a different set of maps than the regular x5 50i, so a couple of hours after testing i read my codes and sent them over, they do adjustments over those codes and send you the new map. Long story short a day and a half later they had every kink worked out and my car running like a dream.

Gave it a few days to adjust and holy s**t this thing pulls!!! removed my limiter aswell.

Just as a note i'm quite sure with a regular x5 they would have it run at the first try, not a doubt about that. Thing is they had never worked on a security version of the car before as they are a bit rare.

No regrets on going to a full Flash tune, save some money because you're eventually gonna end up here from a piggy back tune.

[FenixMike]

Go with ESS Tuning on the flash... Wonderful power, easy to put back to stock in seconds, also includes software to check codes and what not. Ive had them tune every one of my BMWs and each time im more impressed! They also have a piggy back system I ran on my 550i which could store multiple tunes and was easily adjusted for more or less boost.
https://esstuning.com/bmw/f15-x5-series/

This was my 2014 X5 50i bone stock other than the tune, my 2015 X5 flash is in the mail since im not in AZ anymore.

[trlengle]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Go with ESS Tuning on the flash... Wonderful power, easy to put back to stock in seconds, also includes software to check codes and what not. Ive had them tune every one of my BMWs and each time im more impressed! They also have a piggy back system I ran on my 550i which could store multiple tunes and was easily adjusted for more or less boost.
https://esstuning.com/bmw/f15-x5-series/

This was my 2014 X5 50i bone stock other than the tune, my 2015 X5 flash is in the mail since im not in AZ anymore.

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Go with ESS Tuning on the flash... Wonderful power, easy to put back to stock in seconds, also includes software to check codes and what not. Ive had them tune every one of my BMWs and each time im more impressed! They also have a piggy back system I ran on my 550i which could store multiple tunes and was easily adjusted for more or less boost.
https://esstuning.com/bmw/f15-x5-series/

This was my 2014 X5 50i bone stock other than the tune, my 2015 X5 flash is in the mail since im not in AZ anymore.

What's the longer term concern using a flash tune versus piggyback like Dinan? It seems as though the flash gets more out of the engine, does that mean potentially more issues down the line?

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by trlengle

What's the longer term concern using a flash tune versus piggyback like Dinan? It seems as though the flash gets more out of the engine, does that mean potentially more issues down the line?

There is really no long term concern unless your beating on the car continuously, it will drive like a normal car but you know you have a extra 100 hp/ 100 trq when you want it. Most people only shy away cause of warranty concerns, but it should have to no I’ll effect on your engine. Get one and enjoy it!!

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by trlengle

What's the longer term concern using a flash tune versus piggyback like Dinan? It seems as though the flash gets more out of the engine, does that mean potentially more issues down the line?

There are some big differences, and the flash will ALWAYS be the "safer" choice.

Piggy backs intercept signals to/from the sensors and the computer, and "fudge" the readings to increase boost and fuel, while some like the ESS also control timing (making the ESS unit significantly safer than others that dont control timing). Piggy backs are a cheap and easy way of making power, generally also easily removable without a trace since the only differences you would find in the computer would be fault codes for any readings that exceeded manufacturers spec, such as boost spiking to levels that otherwise wouldnt be possible without the piggy back.

Flash tunes are inherently "safer" because they not only adjust fuel, spark and boost, but also all the small supporting changes such as torque management, engine control temps, codes and faults that are apparent when running more power on a piggy back etc. The flash tunes tend to make more power safely, and drive closer to factory because the entire tune is programmed to work together, instead of just increasing a couple components for power, and making the computer adjust the rest. With the ESS flash, you wouldnt know the vehicle was even tuned other than the tremendous horsepower increase, and much better launches with the way they map the torque, giving very smooth power delivery.

If you do a flash, I Promise you, you won't ever look back, and much like me, every future BMW will have one. The X5 50i in specific picks up a stupid amount of power with the flash... more so than any other BMW.