Latest news on manual transmission & RWD for future M cars

[.BMW.]

Great news!

[DrtyJrze]

I have trouble understanding the infatuation with a manual. It has zero advantages over a modern Auto.

Even the "driver engagement bro" argument makes little sense. If you're such a purists why not buy a car without power steering, ABS, DSC, etc.? There are big power classic cars out there, buy one of those. :

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I have trouble understanding the infatuation with a manual. It has zero advantages over a modern Auto.

Even the "driver engagement bro" argument makes little sense. If you're such a purists why not buy a car without power steering, ABS, DSC, etc.? There are big power classic cars out there, buy one of those. :

Would it be too much to ask to keep the MT/AT debate out of this thread?

Your argument isn't even very strong. The total cost of owning and maintaining a classic car is significantly different from a new car with a warranty. Instead of trying to find ways of reasoning that the MT should not exist anymore, just accept that it does (for now) because some people still prefer it.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I have trouble understanding the infatuation with a manual. It has zero advantages over a modern Auto.

Even the "driver engagement bro" argument makes little sense. If you're such a purists why not buy a car without power steering, ABS, DSC, etc.? There are big power classic cars out there, buy one of those. :

Involvement. A Segway will get you places, but walking is still preferable.

As for classics, they're great and all, and I have been shopping late 60's and early 70's Alfa GTVs, but it comes down to safety. I'll likely rarely take my 2 year old out in something like that. But he's in my manual GTI daily.

I've had a number of cars without power steering, ABS or any form of stability control and wouldn't hesitate to buy something new without them if it were an option.

[justinco]

Am I out of the loop? Are M cars to be AWD at some point in the future, and not RWD? To me this would be a more detrimental change than getting away from 3 pedals...

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by justinco

Am I out of the loop? Are M cars to be AWD at some point in the future, and not RWD? To me this would be a more detrimental change than getting away from 3 pedals...

The new M5 is already both.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The electric motor .... ? Won't kill MT.
Self driving cars won't kill the MT.

Well, given that the transmission itself (of any type) is unlikely to survive the switch to electric drivetrains, the chances don't look good for the manual.

I think that classic car enthusiasts will always exist, and the MT will live on among them. You still see completely customized classic cars, some over 100 years old, that could just as easily use a modern turbocharged engine and automatic transmission, but instead use a naturally aspirated pushrod, or even flathead, engine connected to a four or five speed manual transmission. That nostalgia is unlikely to wane any time soon. But for new, modern day vehicles, transmissions will, in the not-so-distant future, no longer be necessary nor practical.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Would it be too much to ask to keep the MT/AT debate out of this thread?

Your argument isn't even very strong. The total cost of owning and maintaining a classic car is significantly different from a new car with a warranty. Instead of trying to find ways of reasoning that the MT should not exist anymore, just accept that it does (for now) because some people still prefer it.

[georgere]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Electric drive will mark the demise of manual transmissions. Not sure how adding electric drive to every BMW in the future syncs up with retaining manual trannys.

I think they might be boosting power delivery with electric motors.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I have trouble understanding the infatuation with a manual. It has zero advantages over a modern Auto.

Even the "driver engagement bro" argument makes little sense. If you're such a purists why not buy a car without power steering, ABS, DSC, etc.? There are big power classic cars out there, buy one of those. :

If you were jumping out of a plane and had only your mind.. you would be plummeting to your death.

OPEN YOUR MIND.
Attempt to conceive of something different than your own goals.


Has automation stopped the following from
existing in our society ?

Skateboards
Bicycles
Kayaks
Canoes
Horses for horseback riding

MANY people want to get around faster and certainly their are automated options or versions of each of those above with which to do so .. yet these archaic items above still live on?

Could it be " driver engagement " , bro ?

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I get all that. All I'm saying is I that I would prefer BMW use resources for development of other advances in automotive technology vs using resources to incorporate manual drivetrains into new models.

IMO MT vs Auto isn't the big debate. RWD vs AWD is.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I get all that. All I'm saying is I that I would prefer BMW use resources for development of other advances in automotive technology vs using resources to incorporate manual drivetrains into new models.

IMO MT vs Auto isn't the big debate. RWD vs AWD is.

See my comment above.

[DrtyJrze]

Wait...is the Manual vs Auto a sensitive subject?

I'm sorry y'all! It's not that serious to me. I can drive stick and think they're cool.

I guess my stance is "let's move forward". I prefer to cut the cord with old technology and move forward into the unknown, particularly electric/hybrid.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I get all that. All I'm saying is I that I would prefer BMW use resources for development of other advances in automotive technology vs using resources to incorporate manual drivetrains into new models.

Actually, for the record, that wasn't at all what you were saying. In fact, you didn't express that sentiment at all in your first post. But, we'll just let the past lie for now. Of course, if it turns out that the thread is hopelessly derailed by your comment, corrective measures will be taken.

IMO MT vs Auto isn't the big debate. RWD vs AWD is.

Both feature passionate arguments on opposing sides.

As with the transmission, electric motors may eventually eliminate non-AWD drivetrains as well. This is because once the technology is ready, in-hub motors may dominate some day, and typically those would be used in all four wheels. Although it would be possible to use them in just two wheels, it seems unlikely this type of setup would be favorable.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The electric motor .... ? Won't kill MT.

As long as there are PEOPLE driving cars, the MT will survive.

Electric cars don't need a transmission at all?!?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Electric cars don't need a transmission at all?!?

They don't clutches at all. Like the best bicycles, they're single speeds.

[E9TOU]

I can't tell if this is already being done, but I have a feeling that once manuals become too expensive to develop on their own, a supplier is going to develop a standard MT that can be adapted to a wide range of cars sort of how some AT's are today. The idea of autonomous/electric cars don't interest me as much, but if there were some manual shifting component to these cars that could be turned on then I would probably be more receptive. I know this is a long-shot and probably very expensive to develop, but if BMW can turn a car into RWD from AWD from the push of a button, then I can dream haha.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I have trouble understanding the infatuation with a manual. It has zero advantages over a modern Auto.

Even the "driver engagement bro" argument makes little sense. If you're such a purists why not buy a car without power steering, ABS, DSC, etc.? There are big power classic cars out there, buy one of those. :

Nostalgia

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nostalgia

I agree!

I still have my 240sx. When I drive it I'm instantly transported back to when I was 20 something, and I can hear Vin Diesel in my ear telling me that I'm "Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should."

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nostalgia

You're right, I remember all the fun I had when I drove my car into work this morning. I'm nostalgic for this morning's commute.

...how hard is it to understand that the act of shifting a manual transmission is itself a fun activity for some of us and some of us buy our cars to have fun with.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Remonster

You're right, I remember all the fun I had when I drove my car into work this morning. I'm nostalgic for this morning's commute.

...how hard is it to understand that the act of shifting a manual transmission is itself a fun activity for some of us and some of us buy our cars to have fun with.

I wasn't being derogatory. I enjoy driving a manual transmission also. If I had room for a third car in the garage it would most definitely be a manual. Probably an 80's 911 (nostalgia at work again). Unfortunately I live in traffic world and driving a manual daily can/does get tiresome.

Obviously situations differ. Enjoy

[Slow30R]

the better keep a manual or im going back to old school Japanese