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      12-30-2014, 01:46 PM   #1
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*****Dyno results on page 2*****

Hey everyone, I just ordered the Racechip ultimate for my 2014 X5 Diesel and it should arrive within the week. I have also scheduled an appointment to dyno the car on January 16th. I will be doing 6 runs; 2 base line, 2 at default setting and perhaps 2 at 2 clicks up from default. I'm the type that likes hard data and since I cannot find any independent hard data/testing on the Racechip, I decided to pursue it myself.

Please feel free to make suggestions on the tune settings for my 6 dyno runs. Also note, I plan to run the car with the Racechip two weeks prior to familiarize the DME with the new readings. I'll likely run the higher setting on the dyno first before running a base line, or would anyone suggest doing the opposite?

Will keep everyone updated.
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      12-30-2014, 03:09 PM   #2
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Awesome! Much appreciated. Look forward to results and feedback.
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      12-30-2014, 03:42 PM   #3
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EXCELLENT!!! I am eager to see the results as I am interested in adding this to my X5d
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      12-30-2014, 03:51 PM   #4
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Test it on stock settings first. I want to know if the advertised numbers they advertise on the website line up with either the stock settings or not. If not, I want to know how many ticks above we have to increase to get to that advertised number. Your chip should come stock as E/0. The number people change is 0 and go up to 2. I would just test these parameters if possible: E/0, E/1, and E/2 - in that order. Thanks again for doing this dyno, buddy .
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      12-30-2014, 04:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by opasha View Post
Test it on stock settings first. I want to know if the advertised numbers they advertise on the website line up with either the stock settings or not. If not, I want to know how many ticks above we have to increase to get to that advertised number. Your chip should come stock as E/0. The number people change is 0 and go up to 2. I would just test these parameters if possible: E/0, E/1, and E/2 - in that order. Thanks again for doing this dyno, buddy .
Like the man said E/0, E/1, and E/2 definitely

42pilot What setting are you driving whit now?

thanks Opplock1 you are doing the forum a big favor, can’t wait to see the results, hope I’m not disappointed....sometimes these tunes feels like the world when you drive them and then when you get them up on the dyno for straight facts, you wonder what happened to all the extra HK you felt when you were blazing down the highway whit your window down and sunshades on and felling like the king of the road.
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      12-30-2014, 04:20 PM   #6
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Also, for anyone wondering. The tick marks are 1.5% increase in hp. So doing the math for the diesel hp RaceChip Tuning Performance: 331 hp / 487 lb/ft tq:

331 x .015 = 4.965. So, if 0 is the stock setting at 331. The ticks up or down will be an increase or decrease of 4.965 hp. My buddy asked Paul about the math I did, and Paul confirmed it was correct. I want to know if we you get 331 at E/0 or not. If so, then E/2 will give you 340.93 hp. 42pilot , any thoughts, my friend? I found all this information out by browsing audiworld and singapore forums.

I really would love to do a dyno on mine. Right now being in the S1=1, S2= C setting (S1=1, S2=B is my stock setting for the chip for 507hp), my car should be putting out supposedly 514hp according to this math.
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      12-30-2014, 05:18 PM   #7
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First of all, what make and model is the dyno? Mustang? Dynojet (known to most tuners as dynojunk)? They are very different and most common. And I have to throw this in, make sure it is a 4WD dyno. Make sure you know the correction factor (and why) they will use. You can throw in any correction factor and come up with whatever number you expect. The correction number will take into consideration temperature, humidity, altitude, etc.

You must run a baseline to know stock versus the various chip settings.

Also, make sure they provide plenty of fans pointing at the front of your car for the intercooler and intake. The biggest improvement you can make to an engine's performance for $0 is cool air. If you let the car sit at an idle on the dyno too long (getting ready for the run and between runs), you will get heat-sink in the intercooler and intake which will further lower your numbers.

What gear are you going to use for the run? You need to find out the optimum gear for the F15 for a dyno - just flooring it in an automatic will not provide any useful data.

As for expectations, if you think your car will produce 255 hp on the dyno in the baseline run, you will be very disappointed. I would estimate 15% - 20% loss just in the drivetrain. I wouldn't be surprised if the HP peaks at 200 - 215. Make sure your air conditioner is off too.

I am more interested in torque. HP is simply work over time. Torque is what pushes you back in your seat. Make sure the print-out (graph) you get shows torque and horsepower (X axis) over RPM (Y axis). This way, you know where the power is being applied and how long it lasts. A setting that peaks at 1500 rpm, then drops off from there is not very useful for the street. For example, my 550i peaked at 1800 rpm for torque, then held the peak torque until nearly 5000 rpm. That was a freakin' impressive tune from Dinan. A print-out of your results every 100 or 50 rpm, in a spreadsheet form, is much more detailed and informative if you really like hard data. Check to see if they have the BMW PID's and can tie into the OBD port to check engine parameters during the run. Knowing EGT's, coolant temps, fuel flow, etc for each run would be outstanding data.

Remember, if you trip a check engine light, you will need to clear it manually (scanner) or drive it for 15 minutes. Without clearing the CEL, the ECU will default to OEM settings and you'll waste time/money.

Here is the most important part - call RaceChip US and ask them for settings guidance, and let them know what you are doing and you are going to post the results on this forum. You will find they will be very accommodating and give you great guidance as well as what to expect. They might even tell you which gear to use for the most accurate result. This is a good forum but I can only tell you the setting I like for my style of driving - it might not be the peak setting for hp/torque, and I would hate to see you waste your money chasing peak numbers based on a bunch F15 junkies recommendations. You might want to do the run during working hours in case you need to speak to them during the dyno.

Good luck.
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      12-30-2014, 06:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
First of all, what make and model is the dyno? Mustang? Dynojet (known to most tuners as dynojunk)? They are very different and most common. And I have to throw this in, make sure it is a 4WD dyno. Make sure you know the correction factor (and why) they will use. You can throw in any correction factor and come up with whatever number you expect. The correction number will take into consideration temperature, humidity, altitude, etc.

You must run a baseline to know stock versus the various chip settings.

Also, make sure they provide plenty of fans pointing at the front of your car for the intercooler and intake. The biggest improvement you can make to an engine's performance for $0 is cool air. If you let the car sit at an idle on the dyno too long (getting ready for the run and between runs), you will get heat-sink in the intercooler and intake which will further lower your numbers.

What gear are you going to use for the run? You need to find out the optimum gear for the F15 for a dyno - just flooring it in an automatic will not provide any useful data.

As for expectations, if you think your car will produce 255 hp on the dyno in the baseline run, you will be very disappointed. I would estimate 15% - 20% loss just in the drivetrain. I wouldn't be surprised if the HP peaks at 200 - 215. Make sure your air conditioner is off too.

I am more interested in torque. HP is simply work over time. Torque is what pushes you back in your seat. Make sure the print-out (graph) you get shows torque and horsepower (X axis) over RPM (Y axis). This way, you know where the power is being applied and how long it lasts. A setting that peaks at 1500 rpm, then drops off from there is not very useful for the street. For example, my 550i peaked at 1800 rpm for torque, then held the peak torque until nearly 5000 rpm. That was a freakin' impressive tune from Dinan. A print-out of your results every 100 or 50 rpm, in a spreadsheet form, is much more detailed and informative if you really like hard data. Check to see if they have the BMW PID's and can tie into the OBD port to check engine parameters during the run. Knowing EGT's, coolant temps, fuel flow, etc for each run would be outstanding data.

Remember, if you trip a check engine light, you will need to clear it manually (scanner) or drive it for 15 minutes. Without clearing the CEL, the ECU will default to OEM settings and you'll waste time/money.

Here is the most important part - call RaceChip US and ask them for settings guidance, and let them know what you are doing and you are going to post the results on this forum. You will find they will be very accommodating and give you great guidance as well as what to expect. They might even tell you which gear to use for the most accurate result. This is a good forum but I can only tell you the setting I like for my style of driving - it might not be the peak setting for hp/torque, and I would hate to see you waste your money chasing peak numbers based on a bunch F15 junkies recommendations. You might want to do the run during working hours in case you need to speak to them during the dyno.

Good luck.
This will be dynoed on all 4 wheels with a dynapack at my local tuner, Church Automotive Testing. You are correct I need to find the right gear that is closest to a 1:1 ratio(6th gear)

As to what I am expecting from the results, I'm fully aware and not expecting the base line to be anywhere near the stated paper values( I'm guessing after the tune I will end up meeting the values stated lol).

Good point as to calling Racechip and getting them involved in my dyno session. I will definitely do so.

I'm also very curious about the stock A/F ratio and how each step of the tune will effect it. With that data I can hopefully fine tune the fuel pressure and timing better.

Any idea what is the "ideal" A/F ratio for Diesel engines?

Last edited by emdeuce; 12-30-2014 at 08:08 PM..
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      12-30-2014, 07:28 PM   #9
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Gear ratios are different in a 2014 than 2015. What year is your X5? The ratios are on the BMW web site..
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      12-30-2014, 08:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opplock1 View Post
This will be dynoed on all 4 wheels with a dynapack at my local tuner, Church Automotive Testing. You are correct I need to find the right gear that is closest to a 1:1 ratio(6th gear)

As to what I am expecting from the results, I'm fully aware and not expecting the base line to be anywhere near the stated paper values( I'm guessing after the tune I will end up meeting the values stated lol).

Good point as to calling Racechip and getting them involved in my dyno session. I will definitely do so.

I'm also very curious about the stock A/F ratio and how each step of the tune will effect it. With that data I can hopefully fine tune the fuel pressure and timing better.

Any idea what is the "ideal" A/F ratio for Diesel engines?
Ideal for power is 18:1. Any richer and you'll increase EGT's and probably trip the CEL quickly. On the other hand, at cruise, it is possible to see 40:1 because of diesel's energy properties.

You probably already know that BMW has sensors in the engine compartment that can sense air flow (bow-pressure). I read an article by Steve Dinan who proved to a Car and Driver author by blowing air with a Home Depot fan at the front of his M5 and it produced +300-ish horsepower. He then started up his new $250,000 focused fan, and pointed it at the front of the car. The dyno then showed +400-ish horsepower. The AF ratio went from 9.5:1 up to something like 12:1. Nothing else was changed except air speed at the front of the car. In addition, to be the most fuel efficient, BMW also senses the speed of the vehicle to contrast it against the fueling table. If the speed sensor says 100 mph (on the rollers) but only senses 25 mph air through the front of the car, it will increase AF to keep the engine cool (gas motor) and reduce horsepower. When I tune rear-engine Porsche's on dyno's, I use a shop that has a Mustang dyno (that can load the engine) and 5 fans (I forget the cu ft/min rate) - three for the engine compartment and two upfront to feed the radiators (oil or water).

Anyway, that's how complex these cars are and why sticking a chip that simply increases fuel pressure and timing could be risky.
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      12-31-2014, 01:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
Ideal for power is 18:1. Any richer and you'll increase EGT's and probably trip the CEL quickly. On the other hand, at cruise, it is possible to see 40:1 because of diesel's energy properties.

You probably already know that BMW has sensors in the engine compartment that can sense air flow (bow-pressure). I read an article by Steve Dinan who proved to a Car and Driver author by blowing air with a Home Depot fan at the front of his M5 and it produced +300-ish horsepower. He then started up his new $250,000 focused fan, and pointed it at the front of the car. The dyno then showed +400-ish horsepower. The AF ratio went from 9.5:1 up to something like 12:1. Nothing else was changed except air speed at the front of the car. In addition, to be the most fuel efficient, BMW also senses the speed of the vehicle to contrast it against the fueling table. If the speed sensor says 100 mph (on the rollers) but only senses 25 mph air through the front of the car, it will increase AF to keep the engine cool (gas motor) and reduce horsepower. When I tune rear-engine Porsche's on dyno's, I use a shop that has a Mustang dyno (that can load the engine) and 5 fans (I forget the cu ft/min rate) - three for the engine compartment and two upfront to feed the radiators (oil or water).

Anyway, that's how complex these cars are and why sticking a chip that simply increases fuel pressure and timing could be risky.
Thanks for the FYI, you can ask me a lot about suspension dynamics and brakes, but I'm not too familiar with engine tuning. (Probably because there wasn't much to tune on my s52 e36 and sohc civic)

Keep it coming, I may contact you before my dyno day to be go over last minute details and suggestions.

I also contacted the tuner who I will be dynoing my car and he stated he has a OBDII parameter reader and can probably get some basic info such as engine temp, coolant temp and maybe fuel readings, but he is unsure about EGT.

EDIT: found the article you are referring to: http://m.caranddriver.com/features/i...nt-fans-page-2

Also, my RC has shipped and should arrive over the weekend.

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      12-31-2014, 10:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post

Anyway, that's how complex these cars are and why sticking a chip that simply increases fuel pressure and timing could be risky.
OK 42pilot - when you say things like that you scare the carp out of me, and I was planning to do the race chip install on my 35d too!!!
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      12-31-2014, 10:12 AM   #13
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most people, including myself, are running E/2, which doesn't trip the CEL and according to the dash commander the car produced 350hp. Here is the link to the older post:
http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=81
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      12-31-2014, 10:31 AM   #14
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OK 42pilot - when you say things like that you scare the carp out of me, and I was planning to do the race chip install on my 35d too!!!
Hahaha ditto, not very encouraging thing to say, but I'm sure it's clear that any engine mods come with risks.

Update, RC will be in this Friday, I might move my dyno appointment to January 9th!
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      12-31-2014, 11:13 AM   #15
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OK 42pilot - when you say things like that you scare the carp out of me, and I was planning to do the race chip install on my 35d too!!!
Do your homework and speak to the mfg. find out how much research they have done and how many units are in service. I also talk to the tuners (I called RC in Germany) to find out the logic behind their tune. I happen to build and tune a very specific model engine, so I know what to look for. But these new engines and the unbelievable number of possible permutations have me not wanting to go too deep. I will gladly pay Dinan their high price because they do the work and know the cars. I get real nervous with a $500 plug and play chip.
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      12-31-2014, 11:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opplock1 View Post
Thanks for the FYI, you can ask me a lot about suspension dynamics and brakes, but I'm not too familiar with engine tuning. (Probably because there wasn't much to tune on my s52 e36 and sohc civic)

Keep it coming, I may contact you before my dyno day to be go over last minute details and suggestions.

I also contacted the tuner who I will be dynoing my car and he stated he has a OBDII parameter reader and can probably get some basic info such as engine temp, coolant temp and maybe fuel readings, but he is unsure about EGT.

EDIT: found the article you are referring to: http://m.caranddriver.com/features/i...nt-fans-page-2

Also, my RC has shipped and should arrive over the weekend.
Thanks for the link. I knew it was from a long time ago. Just think how far the technology has come since then. Yikes....
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      12-31-2014, 12:16 PM   #17
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OK 42pilot - when you say things like that you scare the carp out of me, and I was planning to do the race chip install on my 35d too!!!
I have been driving about EU 1000 miles whit no problem, been to BMW for repair a couple of times also, just unplug and restore takes about 30 sec, here’s a video by the way of my X5 30d 0-100/0-60 etc. whit racechip in E/2 setting and some exes weight in the car


http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...light=racechip
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      12-31-2014, 01:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
Here is the most important part - call RaceChip US and ask them for settings guidance, and let them know what you are doing and you are going to post the results on this forum. You will find they will be very accommodating and give you great guidance as well as what to expect. They might even tell you which gear to use for the most accurate result.
Per your suggestion, I contacted Racechip USA and spoke with Paul and informed him that I will be dynoing my car with the RC ultimate. He didn't seem to be technically knowledgeable of what the chip does. He simply stated that the S1 changes the torque and that S2 changes the hp(or the other way around, I forgot). I even asked if one changes the pressure and the other changes timing, but he stated he would have to refer to their engineers. He basically cited the user manual on how I should use the default setting the turn it up until it throws a CEL, which I don't buy. Also I asked if they would be interested in my results and he stated they didn't really care. Maybe I spoke with the wrong representative...

Also, he stated they have a dyno chart of the f15 30d/35d and will email a copy shortly. I'll post what he sends.
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      12-31-2014, 01:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opplock1 View Post
Per your suggestion, I contacted Racechip USA and spoke with Paul and informed him that I will be dynoing my car with the RC ultimate. He didn't seem to be technically knowledgeable of what the chip does. He simply stated that the S1 changes the torque and that S2 changes the hp(or the other way around, I forgot). I even asked if one changes the pressure and the other changes timing, but he stated he would have to refer to their engineers. He basically cited the user manual on how I should use the default setting the turn it up until it throws a CEL, which I don't buy. Also I asked if they would be interested in my results and he stated they didn't really care. Maybe I spoke with the wrong representative...

Also, he stated they have a dyno chart of the f15 30d/35d and will email a copy shortly. I'll post what he sends.
The dyno chart is probably at E/0, which is what they typically use.
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      12-31-2014, 02:51 PM   #20
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And it's their dyno probably under ideal conditions with who knows what correction factors. You are doing the right thing looking for hard data on your own. I also agree with RC - too many variables to consider your results. As I said earlier, dyno runs are crap by themselves. For tuning against a baseline, they work well but random runs really mean very little. Actually, there is another recent post showing 0-100kph runs which better shows performance than a chassis dyno.

S1 is fuel timing which produces the torque you feel. S2 is the amount of fuel dumped. Both have diminishing returns and are inter-related.

Now we've learned that RC does not have tuners in the US that can help very much, only customer service people. This is why I called Germany for the technical stuff.

PM me and we can talk about what I have learned from RC and my tests, and give you more info so you can understand your results.
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      12-31-2014, 10:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbender View Post
OK 42pilot - when you say things like that you scare the carp out of me, and I was planning to do the race chip install on my 35d too!!!
Do your homework and speak to the mfg. find out how much research they have done and how many units are in service. I also talk to the tuners (I called RC in Germany) to find out the logic behind their tune. I happen to build and tune a very specific model engine, so I know what to look for. But these new engines and the unbelievable number of possible permutations have me not wanting to go too deep. I will gladly pay Dinan their high price because they do the work and know the cars. I get real nervous with a $500 plug and play chip.
Did you take your chip off? Running the Dinan now?
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      12-31-2014, 10:24 PM   #22
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Btw: i've got 3900 miles running the RC on E/2 setting and not even a hiccup. Runs smooth as silk and great torque. I took it off to see how much it really makes a difference and it felt incredibly slow without it! Also i noticed after about 1000 miles driving with the chip installed it feels significantly stronger than when it was first installed.
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