Gasoline: Brand Name vs No Name

[puckybadger]

What's the consensus regarding gasoline brands. I've been a loyal Shell V-Power 93 octane user but every time I drive by the Sam's Club and see premium for 40 cents less per gallon I'm thinking I'm pretty foolish for passing it up. At 18 gallons a week that's a nice savings, I think.

[deutsch100]

I have debated this since the early 90's, when I got my first new "nice" car....it was a SAAB, lol.

I have been a dedicated Chevron Supreme user (we only have 91 in CA and have used Chevron in all our high end cars. I noticed that BMW now recommends Shell, so this is what I have been using the last year.

BUT....when I notice how much cheaper Costco Diesel and Supreme fuel is, I too wonder! A good friend has used Costco diesel for almost 3 years in his 535d, and his car has been flawless. I know this is only one person, but he is a car fanatic!

[redline9001]

Costco is top tier gas in Canada, not sure in the US. Our 35i gets Costco gas all the time... for the must part I go where it’s cheaper or that picky on brand

But my My M3 only gets shell gas.

[wearenh]

PRO (Branded)

Top Tier Gas

AAA

Consumer Reports



CON

ABC News

Business Insider

Edmunds

NPR

[iconoclast]

Shell93 V-Power in every vehicle every time except when traveling in an area where shell93 is not available. Then Sunoco93 or BP93.

[perry8912]

I use Shell 91 gas only. Cause there is no ethanol in it. I know Ethanol is a cleaner fuel than gasoline, but the gas mileage is so bad...

[P1]

When I had my Cummins Dodge, it was 90% of the time Shell diesel. Now, I just go to the nearest Chevron purely because of convenience.

[Mr.47]

Top Tier Gas only: Shell, Phillips 66, Conoco, that's about the only gas station that I visit in my state, for both Gas and Diesel

[DuSh]

Does anyone know real situation in terms of production: I mean there has to be limited number of refineries where gas is produced in USA. So probably a handful of them and all gas comes from those places. Shouldn't it be made using same ISO (or whatever certifications are in place in USA) specs and basically be almost identical, no matter who produced it? The only difference should be in additives and further differences in storage, transportation etc. It's not like we use fuel produced in different countries made from completely different oil using different technique etc. - in that case it would be different. I'm just thinking loudly, I'm not an expert.

[Dilmorecg]

I suggest only using Top Tier gas. Doesn't look like Sams Club is on that list.

I exclusively use Costco gas...only because there is one a few miles from my house. I used to only run Shell before we moved.

[xweb10]

Originally Posted by deutsch100

...Costco diesel...

This is all I used for the past 3 years, too. No problems.

[turboawd]

Most gas comes from the same pipeline to the regional distribution.

[CeeTeeX5]

Been filling with costco gas for as long as I can remember. It’s Top Tier and far cheaper than any other gas station around. Haven’t had any fuel related issues that I’ve ever noticed.

[Bt12]

Heard great things about cosco. But we only get the Sunoco or Exxon that’s local... because the wife perceives it to be cleaner...lol.


That said. I assume most gas in us is pretty similar as fuel is regulated in parts per million. Yes there are some co’s That have additional additives. But octane and detergent and such are in everything.

[redline9001]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Does anyone know real situation in terms of production: I mean there has to be limited number of refineries where gas is produced in USA. So probably a handful of them and all gas comes from those places. Shouldn't it be made using same ISO (or whatever certifications are in place in USA) specs and basically be almost identical, no matter who produced it? The only difference should be in additives and further differences in storage, transportation etc. It's not like we use fuel produced in different countries made from completely different oil using different technique etc. - in that case it would be different. I'm just thinking loudly, I'm not an expert.

I sure it depands on your area but in western Canada there is only three refineries and the only difference is the detergents put in for various retailers

[fosterelli]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Does anyone know real situation in terms of production: I mean there has to be limited number of refineries where gas is produced in USA. So probably a handful of them and all gas comes from those places. Shouldn't it be made using same ISO (or whatever certifications are in place in USA) specs and basically be almost identical, no matter who produced it? The only difference should be in additives and further differences in storage, transportation etc. It's not like we use fuel produced in different countries made from completely different oil using different technique etc. - in that case it would be different. I'm just thinking loudly, I'm not an expert.

Gasoline is refined at major refineries (strategically located around the country where they have access to crude oil pipelines).

Once refined into gasoline, it travels in pipelines to regional terminals for storage, trucks then take to smaller terminals for final finish into motor vehicle gasoline - then it's off to the retailers.

It is at these smaller terminals that the individual brands (Chevron, Shell, BP, so on) can add their detergents, additives, etc.

One should always look for Top Tier (someone else posted the link above).

Top Tier is designed and supported by BMW, GM, MB, Ford, Honda, VW/Audi, Toyota, etc.

There are over 78 brands of Top Tier - so it should be easy to find in most places.

Top Tier was created because EPA standards were not sufficient to prevent carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, clogged injection systems, and other problems.

So yes, there are only so many refineries. However, where the magic happens is locally/regionally, and not all fuel is created equal. There are minimum standards, certainly. But the minimums are not good enough.

Remember, additives are expensive. Imagine the savings a low-tier fuel company can achieve by pinching some costs here and there (like going with minimum standards), across millions of gallons annually, and you'll see why paying more is better. I'd rather pay a few bucks more per tank and save my vehicle (and achieve maximum engine performance).

[Treeboy]

Originally Posted by redline9001

Costco is top tier gas in Canada, not sure in the US. Our 35i gets Costco gas all the time... for the must part I go where it’s cheaper or that picky on brand

But my My M3 only gets shell gas.

I confirm this. Costco Canada gas (91 Premium - no ethanol) has been good for my 335i Dinan II and current M3. No issue whatsoever.
Since there is no diesel available from Costco in BC, X5 gets fueled by Shell V-Power Diesel.

[lilthrift]

fostrelli is correct......

I am a petroleum company owner and hauler. We sell Exxon, Marathon and unbranded fuel at our 50 stations in NC. I can tell you that the majors do add additives to their premium fuel brands to distinguish themselves from the Sheetz and Wawa stores. These additives do increase the fuel cost to me as the retailer which we pass on to the consumer. I can buy a cheaper non additive premium fuel for our unbranded locations for considerable less.

Believe me...stick to a Top Tier or Major brand for your high end vehicles.

Peace

[turboawd]

Originally Posted by lilthrift

fostrelli is correct......

I am a petroleum company owner and hauler. We sell Exxon, Marathon and unbranded fuel at our 50 stations in NC. I can tell you that the majors do add additives to their premium fuel brands to distinguish themselves from the Sheetz and Wawa stores. These additives do increase the fuel cost to me as the retailer which we pass on to the consumer. I can buy a cheaper non additive premium fuel for our unbranded locations for considerable less.

Believe me...stick to a Top Tier or Major brand for your high end vehicles.

Peace

what additives are actually added?

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by lilthrift

fostrelli is correct......

I am a petroleum company owner and hauler. We sell Exxon, Marathon and unbranded fuel at our 50 stations in NC. I can tell you that the majors do add additives to their premium fuel brands to distinguish themselves from the Sheetz and Wawa stores. These additives do increase the fuel cost to me as the retailer which we pass on to the consumer. I can buy a cheaper non additive premium fuel for our unbranded locations for considerable less.

Believe me...stick to a Top Tier or Major brand for your high end vehicles.

Peace

Thank you i will stick with a top tier. I wish we had 93 octane here in Arizona Do you know why no one brings 93 to us plebs dying in dry heat?

[fosterelli]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Thank you i will stick with a top tier. I wish we had 93 octane here in Arizona Do you know why no one brings 93 to us plebs dying in dry heat?

You probably won't like this answer.

ASTM and API historically provided octane guidelines per region/state.

Altitude used to have a lot to do with the guidelines. Because in higher elevations engines draw in less air, due to reduced density. This equates to less fuel and reduced cylinder compression, which deters knocking.

However, this is old crappy information. The real deal is all states should have 93 octane now, even 94. With all of the turbos we have these days, full power can only be achieved with higher octane fuels.

Also some states have maximum octanes, like California's CaRFG3 has max 91...which is hilarious considering California is the strictest with emissions and this also goes against the EPA's CAFE standards...because the whole reason we have small displacements, more turbos, and high pressures is due to OEMs trying to reach CAFE goals. So we should have higher octanes for sure, and states are slowly changing their standpoints.

Also, CAFE is why we have small displacement, direct injection turbocharged engines...which often have low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) - causing knocking, carbon buildups, and engine damage. This is leading to ILSAC GF-5 Plus, before GF-6 gets developed. OEMs pressured this GF-5 Plus release for oil additive package/standards because they cannot afford the warranty claims of these small displacement DI turbo engines...too many failures due to the LSPI...so the lubricants must adjust accordingly.

[wearenh]

Originally Posted by DuSh

...limited number of refineries where gas is produced...basically be almost identical...only difference should be in additives ...

you are correct sir!

All gasoline that comes out of refineries that has met governmental standards is then shipped
via a pipeline where it is then put into a wholesale terminal of about 3 million gallons...From there
the gasoline gets mixed with product from other refiners and then shipped through another
pipeline to a storage facility.

There are certain detergent packages, added at the end, that make it brand specific. What partially
sets apart branded versus unbranded gasoline is the detergent or additive package that is injected
into the gasoline before it heads to the branded station, claiming to aid in automobile performance.

For example, Chevron boasts its Techron patented additive that the company says reduces the
accumulation of deposits in fuel injectors and on intake valves, and minimizes build-up of deposits
in the combustion chamber. In short, it will help your vehicle perform better.

Unbranded gasoline that heads to stations like US Gas also receives a detergent or additive
package, albeit a generic one that is regulated by the government.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) introduced the minimum gasoline detergent
standard in 1995....By 2002, the automakers said their repair records suggested that the
EPA standard for detergents wasn't high enough, but the EPA was not responsive when
they asked them to increase the standards.

In 2004 representatives of BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota got together to specify
what makes a good fuel. Using recommendations from the Worldwide Fuel Charter, a global
committee of automakers and engine manufacturers, they established a proprietary standard
for a class of gasoline called "TOP TIER" Detergent Gasoline The new standard required increased
levels of detergents, and restricted metallic content. Volkswagen/Audi joined the group of automakers
in 2007. Gas brands can participate and get a TOP TIER license if they meet certain standards, which
includes performance tests for intake valve and combustion chamber deposits, fuel injector fouling,
and intake valve sticking. Additive manufacturers pay for the testing, the cost of which varies from year
to year, while gasoline companies pay an annual fee based on the number of stations it operates
to participate in the program.

In addition to higher detergent levels, Top Tier standards also require that gasolines be free of
metallic additives, which can be harmful to the emissions control systems in cars.




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