Your Transmission Fluid is NOT "LIFETIME"

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Posting this to clear-up some confusion created by BMW marketing. As you know, All F15/F16's come with 8 Speed Automatic transmissions. These are not manufactured by BMW, But rather ZF Friedrichshafen AG.

It is important to understand that you need to change your transmission oil and filter every 50 to 75 thousand miles. BMW marketing is doing everyone a great disservice by claiming the fluid is "lifetime" which is nothing more then a marketing gimmick and goes directly against ZF required maintenance guidelines . Attached is the guidelines and procedures from ZF themselves on changing the fluid.

This honestly should be made a sticky.

[Mr.47]

Here’s an interesting video from ZF themself it’s in German but had translation.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Mr.47

Here’s an interesting video from ZF themself it’s in German but had translation.

Thank you for posting that!!! How can we get the moderators to make this as sticky? Honestly this should be made a sticky in every BMW forum since all new BMWs come with ZF8 transmissions. How many needless transmissions failures will occur because of BMW's deception if owners do not know the truth.

[BDO]

In BMW parlance, lifetime = lifetime of warranty

[ComasF15]

Got it, I need a two post lift!

[menelaos]

My SA told me that "Lifetime" for BMW does not extend beyond 100K miles.
Reason? They want you out of your 100K-mile to a brand new one.
Maintenance costs kinda "help" in that direction.
That's why you obviously see that freefall in pricing once they run out of warranty.

[Megatr0n]

Im glad I just read this post, I have 85k on my f15. Today I ordered the Kit online so I could get it changed ASAP. I hope I'm not too late with 85k!

[smyles]

Looks like the 'S65/85 rod bearings' cult got a new challenger in 'change tranny fluid every 50k miles' one.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by smyles

Looks like the 'S65/85 rod bearings' cult got a new challenger in 'change tranny fluid every 50k miles' one.

Lol, I give up on you my friend, there is literally written documentation posted here direct from ZF to change your fluid and now a video where ZF specifically calls out BMW and their lifetime fluid bullshit lies, but you still want to stick your head in the sand and believe BMW, your choice I guess and good luck with that.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by menelaos

My SA told me that "Lifetime" for BMW does not extend beyond 100K miles.
Reason? They want you out of your 100K-mile to a brand new one.
Maintenance costs kinda "help" in that direction.
That's why you obviously see that freefall in pricing once they run out of warranty.

Ya your probably right, same reason as having so many plastic bits under the hood fail shortly after warranty is up. They are no fools, get us hooked on amazing driving vehicles but like any drug dealer, they need you to come back for more. However they are crossing the line with the stunt they are pulling on the transmissions.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by gerson

Im glad I just read this post, I have 85k on my f15. Today I ordered the Kit online so I could get it changed ASAP. I hope I'm not too late with 85k!

Happy it helped ya! I wish I had known when I bought mine, I proceeded to put 115K on it, believing BMW bullshit and it cost me. Deep down new it was crap but I chose to believe it anyway as a lazy excuse not to have to deal with it.

I think you will be fine but you may want to follow it up with another change in another 15k miles so you get more fresh fluid in there (just the fluid, you won't need to change the filter/pan again that quickly).

The ZF holds close to 9 liters if memory serves and you only get about 4.5 out during a change. 6.5 liters will come out if you loosen the valve body but that is more involved. I will do a video on it one day as anyone that can change their oil can do it, you just have to be very careful with torqing everything back to spec. ATSF makes an excellent service manual with all of this information for those so inclined to learn more.

[r33_RGSport]

I guess it is supposed to mean, the transmission's lifetime, not our lifetime,

[djrabbi]

Would this be covered under CPO? Lol

[Megatr0n]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Happy it helped ya! I wish I had known when I bought mine, I proceeded to put 115K on it, believing BMW bullshit and it cost me. Deep down new it was crap but I chose to believe it anyway as a lazy excuse not to have to deal with it.

I think you will be fine but you may want to follow it up with another change in another 15k miles so you get more fresh fluid in there (just the fluid, you won't need to change the filter/pan again that quickly).

The ZF holds close to 9 liters if memory serves and you only get about 4.5 out during a change. 6.5 liters will come out if you loosen the valve body but that is more involved. I will do a video on it one day as anyone that can change their oil can do it, you just have to be very careful with torqing everything back to spec. ATSF makes an excellent service manual with all of this information for those so inclined to learn more.

I'm planning to take the f15 to an Indy shop that specializes in BMW's here in NYC. I would love to do it myself but I don't have a garage to do the work.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by menelaos

My SA told me that "Lifetime" for BMW does not extend beyond 100K miles.
Reason? They want you out of your 100K-mile to a brand new one.
Maintenance costs kinda "help" in that direction.
That's why you obviously see that freefall in pricing once they run out of warranty.

And abandon all hope ye who buys after the warranty expires!

In all seriousness, this is as serious as it is troubling. I mean, definitely questioned the interpretation of “lifetime”, but clearly it is not as BMW would like the buying public to believe.

[Clifton]

MODs, sticky PlEaSE!!!

[smyles]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Lol, I give up on you my friend, there is literally written documentation posted here direct from ZF to change your fluid and now a video where ZF specifically calls out BMW and their lifetime fluid bullshit lies, but you still want to stick your head in the sand and believe BMW, your choice I guess and good luck with that.

First, chill. You don't know me nor my qualifications. Just because you found some youtube video and got all excited, doesn't make you an ultimate expert or anything.

Second, I'll repeat: show me an example where BMW/ZF 8HP transmission failure was a direct result of fluid aging, and nothing else.

[CanadianLurker]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Posting this to clear-up some confusion created by BMW marketing. As you know, All F15/F16's comes with 8 Speed Automatic transmissions. These are not manufactured by BMW, But rather ZF Friedrichshafen AG.

It is important to understand that you need to change your Transmission oil and filter every 50 to 70 thousand miles. BMW marketing is doing everyone a great disservice by claiming the fluid is "lifetime" which is nothing more then a marketing gimmick. Attached is the guidelines and Procedures from ZF themselves on changing the fluid.

This honestly should be made a sticky.

I'm not seeing a link to the ZF documentation?!?

[aataulla]

Originally Posted by smyles

First, chill. You don't know me nor my qualifications. Just because you found some youtube video and got all excited, doesn't make you an ultimate expert or anything.

Second, I'll repeat: show me an example where BMW/ZF 8HP transmission failure was a direct result of fluid aging, and nothing else.

That's the thing. Forum junkies don't understand that these cars become money pits well before the transmission fails.

Even if the fluid lasts 100k and then the transmission slowly begins to die till 175k, the journey to 175k miles and the overall condition of the car at that point will be terrible. The turbos, numerous seals, cooling/ignition system, hoses, alternator, starter/alternator, suspension components, electronics will all be ready to die one after the other at 175k miles. So what if the transmission is about to fail when everything else will also be falling apart.

There is a reason why 10 year old x5s sell between 5k and 7k that's because they are at the end of their life. Million mile Lexus is these are not.

[menelaos]

Originally Posted by aataulla

That's the thing. Forum junkies don't understand that these cars become money pits well before the transmission fails.

Even if the fluid lasts 100k and then the transmission slowly begins to die till 175k, the journey to 175k miles and the overall condition of the car at that point will be terrible. The turbos, numerous seals, cooling/ignition system, hoses, alternator, starter/alternator, suspension components, electronics will all be ready to die one after the other at 175k miles. So what if the transmission is about to fail when everything else will also be falling apart.

There is a reason why 10 year old x5s sell between 5k and 7k that's because they are at the end of their life. Million mile Lexus is these are not.

Do you have data to support this?
Not incredulous to what you're saying, but am a data guy and will need concrete evidence that this is true.

[aataulla]

Originally Posted by menelaos

Do you have data to support this?
Not incredulous to what you're saying, but am a data guy and will need concrete evidence that this is true.

Best way is to look at used car pricing relative to new cars.

https://usedfirst.com/cars/bmw/x5/

In Canada and certain us states cars have to be inspected on sale or periodically. Car prices in these areas is good indicator of a half decent vehiclen for a given age and mileage combination. Used car sales for most models will taper off after certain years.

My research shows 10 years is normal for BMW and 15 or so for Lexus/Toyota. Beyond this you're not going to be able to find "usable" cars for these manufacturers. Again this number goes back to the "lifetime" definition/expectation people have from BMWs vs Toyotas

That data on lifetime can be gathered from here

http://www.dashboard-light.com/

Sure any car can last forever if you continue to repair it endlessly but these sites and used car prices will give you insights on when do most people give up on them and thus establish timeframe or lifetime expectations.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by smyles

First, chill. You don't know me nor my qualifications. Just because you found some youtube video and got all excited, doesn't make you an ultimate expert or anything.

Second, I'll repeat: show me an example where BMW/ZF 8HP transmission failure was a direct result of fluid aging, and nothing else.

Take your own advice buddy, you know nothing of me and you are the one that started the fight with your asinine comment. Dont start crap if you dont want it back in your face. I am still trying to decide if you are an idiot or just a troll. I mean who would dismiss direct instructions from the manufacture and side with BMW marketing? Idiot or Troll? which is it? Or do you work for BMW marketing....hmmmmm

The video you try to dismiss is direct from ZF, above is attached documentation.

Sure, Mine is a perfect example and it almost killed me and my family. 80Mph downhill on the I-17 from Prescott in AZ. Drivetrain malfunction, goes into neutral. Wont go back in gear. Thick traffic, 5300lbs coming down a steep grade with nothing but brakes was a good time trying to get off the road in one piece. Waited, reset car, got back on road, did it again on next decline, would only occur during downshifts. Nearly caused an accident twice. Wife and friends didn't think much of BMW that day. Good job BMW Marketing.

Cause was worn solenoids caused by excess wear due to lack of maintenance according to ZF, Transmission had over 115,000 miles on it. This BULLSHIT of lifetime fluid is going to get someone killed, if it has not already.

And don't you worry your pretty little head, I will build the links to failure threads on my own time. While I am doing that, How about you show me the links that show oil life past the manufactures recommendation have absolutely no affect on transmission failures? I might be waiting a bit on that one.