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      04-13-2015, 05:27 PM   #23
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All these power comments, and I'm the troll that just wants to see all 3 IND ( m4, m5, x5m) blue cars together in a pic thread.
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      04-13-2015, 05:31 PM   #24
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Wish this motor was in the M4
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      04-13-2015, 05:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM6GC View Post
So I understand the engine in the x5m is an improved version of what we have in our m5/m6's? What's the main difference, anyone know?

Looks like those dyno numbers are much better than the stock m5/m6's?
Well not necessarily improvement but different.
S63TU (M5/M6) has a flat torque curve between 1500-5750 RPM generates 502 lb-ft (claimed by BMW but definitely underrated) and a power curve generates maximum power between 6000-7000 RPM.
The new version of S63 (2015 model X5M/X6M) has a flat curve rated at 553 lb-ft between 2200-5000 RPM and maximum power between 6000-6500 RPM.
It also has lower redline (7000 RPM) compare to S63tu (7200 RPM)
So basically the new engine is claimed to have overall more power and torque but in narrower torque/power band which is exactly what an AWD SUV and not a RWD sport car (M5/M6) needs.
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      04-13-2015, 05:54 PM   #26
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Awesome!
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      04-13-2015, 06:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Wasn't their an article/post around the F10 M5 release about bespoke M engines being pretty much done? I don't think anyone is doing this anymore. Audi Quattro used engines that were derived from Lambourghini. Mercedes AMG is basically using one engine and tweaking it across the range. Don't see how/why BMW, being the smallest of the three, would have the resources to make bespoke engines.
Audi developed the Lamborghini V10. Mercedes still has its V12, which arguably superior to the BMW V12. They have TT V6s, and apparently will be returning to I6s with a 2.9 liter TT I6.
The E63 has a 5.5 liter V8. Yes, the AMG GT and the C63 have the same 4.0 liter V8 (which sounds better than the S63tu, even though using the same "hot Vee" layout).
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      04-13-2015, 10:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Audi developed the Lamborghini V10. Mercedes still has its V12, which arguably superior to the BMW V12. They have TT V6s, and apparently will be returning to I6s with a 2.9 liter TT I6.
The E63 has a 5.5 liter V8. Yes, the AMG GT and the C63 have the same 4.0 liter V8 (which sounds better than the S63tu, even though using the same "hot Vee" layout).
Speak for yourself buddy. BMW made a V12 which hasn't been matched by Merc till date. Remember the McLaren P1. Also Let's not forget that the 760's V12 competes with the S600 V12 not the S65. I'd say the 760i has a better engine than an S600.

Someone in my college has a blue M5 with an M performance exhaust system and no AMG I heard comes close to sounding as good - perhaps except the SLS. I heard the AMG GT live in person and even in "S" guise with AMG sport exhaust it doesn't sound AS good as the M5 with M performance exhaust. So no the new Merc 4.0 does not sound "way" better. In fact it has more of that american muscle note that the dime a dozen Chargers and silverados have. The M5 sounds a lot more unique. RWD vs RWD the turbo V8 AMG's get eaten alive by their bmw turbo V8 counterparts. Only thing that sucks about the S63tu is active exhaust!

And FWIW I'm not a blind BMW fanboy. I think the SLS is the greatest german car ever after the Porsche 918. But apart from the SLS and G-wagon I think BMW's are just better suited to MY taste and needs than Mercs. Hoping to soon get my 3rd BMW when I trade in my 6er for an M5. E63 looks like it's for old people and I'm just 22.
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      04-14-2015, 01:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai 302 View Post
Speak for yourself buddy. BMW made a V12 which hasn't been matched by Merc till date. Remember the McLaren P1. Also Let's not forget that the 760's V12 competes with the S600 V12 not the S65. I'd say the 760i has a better engine than an S600.
You mean the McLaren F1?

These new X5M's are ridiculous. I'd like to hear one with an exhaust though -- stock doesn't quite sound V8-ish enough in my humble opinion.
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      04-14-2015, 01:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai 302 View Post
Speak for yourself buddy. BMW made a V12 which hasn't been matched by Merc till date. Remember the McLaren P1. Also Let's not forget that the 760's V12 competes with the S600 V12 not the S65. I'd say the 760i has a better engine than an S600.

Someone in my college has a blue M5 with an M performance exhaust system and no AMG I heard comes close to sounding as good - perhaps except the SLS. I heard the AMG GT live in person and even in "S" guise with AMG sport exhaust it doesn't sound AS good as the M5 with M performance exhaust. So no the new Merc 4.0 does not sound "way" better. In fact it has more of that american muscle note that the dime a dozen Chargers and silverados have. The M5 sounds a lot more unique. RWD vs RWD the turbo V8 AMG's get eaten alive by their bmw turbo V8 counterparts. Only thing that sucks about the S63tu is active exhaust!

And FWIW I'm not a blind BMW fanboy. I think the SLS is the greatest german car ever after the Porsche 918. But apart from the SLS and G-wagon I think BMW's are just better suited to MY taste and needs than Mercs. Hoping to soon get my 3rd BMW when I trade in my 6er for an M5. E63 looks like it's for old people and I'm just 22.
Uh, dude..you do know that Mclaren apporach Mercedes first for a V12. Hell, they even approach Isuzu!!! They asked Paul Rosche at BMW about a V12, told him that the S70 was too heavy and big, and so Paul was like "ok", and developed the S70/2 (read Driving Ambition, its about the Mclaren F1---because I am paraphrasing) And yes, the BMW V12 has been matched and beaten by Mercedes. What do you think powers the Pagani Zonda R and Huayra? Remember that the Zonda R's NA Mercedes V12 can push out 800 hp. Here some Zonda R Porn for you
http://www.pagani.com/zonda/zonda_R/default.aspx
The BMW V12s have been known for quite some time for being tad under-torqued compared to their Mercedes brethern. Put simply, use that college brain and look it up. Since you only mentioned the S600 and 760i, I looked it up for you- 2015 S600 523 hp, 612 pound feet of torque, 2015 BMW 760li 535 hp, 550 lb feet of torque. And remember, this is only the S600 and 760. Not the AMG S65 and Alpina B7. Look up BMWs V12s in the 7 series vs the V12s in the S class since the days of the e32 7 series and the W140 S Class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class

Come on, the current M5 doesn't sound that good, and remember you said it had an M performanceexhaust. Now, had you said it was the V10,, then I can agree. Of course sound is subjective...but the M5 has that distinctive fart sound. BMW hasn't been mass turbocharging their high performance cars as well as or as long as AMG (read that as mass production series vehicles, not something like the 2002 Turbo). Most turbo cars have terrible sound, as the turbo nullifies the sound. But, AMG's turbo engine cars sound like beasts...of course, your not a fanboy, but you put down the AMG V8's sound as "american muscle" sound.

By the way, if you have to tell someone that you are not a fanboy, it usually means that you are. It's like telling someone that you are not a liar...

it's all good though...greatest german car of all time is the M3, don't you know that?

Last edited by IS3andME; 04-14-2015 at 02:55 AM..
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      04-14-2015, 03:09 AM   #31
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      04-14-2015, 05:50 AM   #32
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IIRC AMS previously utilized a Mustang dyno.

Did they switch to a dynojet? Do they have both (not likely)? Different location?
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      04-14-2015, 07:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
IIRC AMS previously utilized a Mustang dyno.

Did they switch to a dynojet? Do they have both (not likely)? Different location?
They have both dyno's now
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      04-14-2015, 08:05 AM   #34
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Awesome pics and crazy power. This is one of the few cars that I'm tempted to buy in lieu of an F80, but I hope to wait a few years and replace the wife's car with this.
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      04-14-2015, 08:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Those are great numbers from the dyno. Especially for AWD. Now if ///M could have shaved more than 150lbs than they did...

Indeed it is the same engine but further improved by ///M. Making a little more horsepower and a lot more torque.

I will be highly disappointed if BMW ///M's long term strategy for ///M engines is to continue to use the same exact power plants but increasing power and torque by increasing boost. If the ///M Division decides to use the same Twin Turbo V8 setup or any kind of 6 cylinder engine in the next M5, I won't be buying it. Doesn't BMW sell enough 3 Series so that ///M Division can develop an all new 3.0L Twin Turbo V10 for the next generation of M5's and M6's??! Lol! But based on the fact that the 1st generation X5M used the S63 engine and now the next generation X5M uses an improved S63tu, I am afraid for the future bespokeness of M5's and M6's. At least they'll have OLED Tail Lights though. Lol!
Wasn't their an article/post around the F10 M5 release about bespoke M engines being pretty much done? I don't think anyone is doing this anymore. Audi Quattro used engines that were derived from Lambourghini. Mercedes AMG is basically using one engine and tweaking it across the range. Don't see how/why BMW, being the smallest of the three, would have the resources to make bespoke engines.
I actually was just reading this in the new Bimmer Mag, in the article comparing the M3 vs. i8.
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      04-14-2015, 11:54 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMT79 View Post
I actually was just reading this in the new Bimmer Mag, in the article comparing the M3 vs. i8.
clarkson did the same comp on top gear a month or so back

new m3 vs. i8

i8 won in his mind. sad.

i guess i am only one i8 does nothing for. looks like tron mobile. not muscular/mean looking. those wheels are terrible - skinny and like all the other ugly hybrid wheels they always design.
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      04-14-2015, 12:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Uh, dude..you do know that Mclaren apporach Mercedes first for a V12. Hell, they even approach Isuzu!!! They asked Paul Rosche at BMW about a V12, told him that the S70 was too heavy and big, and so Paul was like "ok", and developed the S70/2 (read Driving Ambition, its about the Mclaren F1---because I am paraphrasing) And yes, the BMW V12 has been matched and beaten by Mercedes. What do you think powers the Pagani Zonda R and Huayra? Remember that the Zonda R's NA Mercedes V12 can push out 800 hp. Here some Zonda R Porn for you
http://www.pagani.com/zonda/zonda_R/default.aspx
The BMW V12s have been known for quite some time for being tad under-torqued compared to their Mercedes brethern. Put simply, use that college brain and look it up. Since you only mentioned the S600 and 760i, I looked it up for you- 2015 S600 523 hp, 612 pound feet of torque, 2015 BMW 760li 535 hp, 550 lb feet of torque. And remember, this is only the S600 and 760. Not the AMG S65 and Alpina B7. Look up BMWs V12s in the 7 series vs the V12s in the S class since the days of the e32 7 series and the W140 S Class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class

Come on, the current M5 doesn't sound that good, and remember you said it had an M performanceexhaust. Now, had you said it was the V10,, then I can agree. Of course sound is subjective...but the M5 has that distinctive fart sound. BMW hasn't been mass turbocharging their high performance cars as well as or as long as AMG (read that as mass production series vehicles, not something like the 2002 Turbo). Most turbo cars have terrible sound, as the turbo nullifies the sound. But, AMG's turbo engine cars sound like beasts...of course, your not a fanboy, but you put down the AMG V8's sound as "american muscle" sound.

By the way, if you have to tell someone that you are not a fanboy, it usually means that you are. It's like telling someone that you are not a liar...

it's all good though...greatest german car of all time is the M3, don't you know that?

Lol. You guys are arguing over V12s. BMW hasn't put any effort into a V12 in years and is likely not to do so for many more years. So yeah, maybe the MBZ V12s are better, but so are their cassette players. Yeah, it doesn't matter cause V12 went the way of the dodo long ago.
Now compare an engine that BMW developed for performance more recently. Perhaps their V10 engine or perhaps any of their turbo engines in recent times. V12s that go into the 760s are not performance engines. They are smooth and refined and exclusive. Not an M engine by any means.
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      04-14-2015, 11:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapcat View Post
Lol. You guys are arguing over V12s. BMW hasn't put any effort into a V12 in years and is likely not to do so for many more years. So yeah, maybe the MBZ V12s are better, but so are their cassette players. Yeah, it doesn't matter cause V12 went the way of the dodo long ago.
Now compare an engine that BMW developed for performance more recently. Perhaps their V10 engine or perhaps any of their turbo engines in recent times. V12s that go into the 760s are not performance engines. They are smooth and refined and exclusive. Not an M engine by any means.
I know right....
I think V12s are going to be here for a while...As long as Ferrari and Lamborghini, Mercedes and BMW are making them.
I wasn't really talking about M engines. But, it would be nice if BMW did have a M engine V12, biturbo of course.
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      04-15-2015, 12:48 PM   #39
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Really good numbers.
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      04-16-2015, 04:26 AM   #40
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Dynojets read very high in general. Get the car on a Mustang or MaHa dyno and you will see considerably lower numbers.

That being said, some of these engines have been known to produce far more hp than indicated by BMW. Strangely, it were in particular the press cars that produced up to almost 650hp at the crank. Honi soit qui mal y pense...

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      04-18-2015, 11:26 PM   #41
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Ok so w the tune how much is new HP
I have the 2011 x5m w Velos Tune
So I'm at 640 hp / 620 tq ( not at wheels apparently)
So non comets gear head talk my stock x5m goes from 555hp to 640 ish
500 tq - to 620tq

What does this new one get w tune

When it says 600 "at the wheels" isn't that like 700+hp ? Just curious

Thanks guys!!
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      04-28-2015, 02:26 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM6GC View Post
So I understand the engine in the x5m is an improved version of what we have in our m5/m6's? What's the main difference, anyone know?

Looks like those dyno numbers are much better than the stock m5/m6's?
It must have been tuned to have a lot higher power, due to having no limit in traction because of the AWD. But frankly, a friend of mine drives the same car as my m6 and he sent it to the dyno, and said that the engine cranks at 615 or so.
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      04-29-2015, 11:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Powerbeast View Post
Really good numbers.
Hard to say with little to compare to.

I asked what the E70 X5M put down on the same dyno and they chose to ignore.

Isolated dyno number is of limited utility.
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