Pits200 - Get in here! E85 vs Meth thread

[FenixMike]

Since we both kinda went off on each other in an unrelated thread, I thought id make a good one for discussion between all parties. I have a similar thread on the F30 forum so I figure it wouldn't hurt to have one here. Lets keep it civil - no name calling, "youre wrong" or insults because you disagree please.

While I do agree with pits200 on some of his information, I believe the recommendations of it being simple for every day use are where we disagree. These are my thoughts on both methods of "better than 91 octane" fueling.

Meth
Im the first to say that using meth as a "poor mans fuel system" is a ticking time bomb. Some of the newer designs using manifolds and separate control devices has proven to work quite well, but the list is long for those who have lost engines to a methanol kit failure while under load. Will you have an issue? Its tough to say... lots of "failsafe" devices are available now, however I just don't trust anything installed aftermarket that is meant to work in conjunction with a factory computer, knowing that before I realize the device failed, the damage is already done.
With that in mind, I DO believe methanol used purely as a charge cooler/octane booster on a tune that otherwise works with 91 octane when methanol isn't in use if a fantastic idea. If the kit fails, worst case youre back to normal, but there wont be any harm done while under load other than a split second of minor knock while the engine adjusts for less octane and higher charge temps, which takes split seconds. Methanol has proven to be a wonderful additive for high compression and boosted engines with a ton of benefits, plus its cheap, easy to store, easy to obtain, and can be filled in your garage as needed. The kits are all self operated these days either by boost reference, MAF signal reference/load reference, or as designated by a controller such as a JB or other device. Having grown up with nitrous on all my cars, the switch to methanol was an easy transition as I already knew all the tricks and benefits. I have run methanol on quite a few vehicles, and installed kits on 60+ other domestic/imported vehicles, with so far not a single failure, and none ever need any sort of adjustment or maintenance once set up properly. Unfortunately many choose not to verify things such as air fuel ratio or tune their system on a dyno, use the incorrect jets, cheap substitutes for methanol such as windshield washer fluid that may contain detergents or other additives instead of only methanol and water, or run straight methanol and don't check components regularly for problems.

All in all, for the weekend warrior, inexperienced do it yourselfer, or other person who wants quick power, especially in warmer environments where you get substantial power loss in the summer, methanol is fantastic and well worth its costs.


now on to Ethanol!
First off, I am NOT Anti-E85, however in a non flex fuel vehicle, or vehicle which may be injector limited due to direct injection, I believe great care must be used if you don't have a shop/tuner/dyno to verify whats going on, or a scan tool to monitor PIDs. I have run 30ish% E55 on my BMWs that don't have methanol, and straight E85 on previous vehicles that made 1000+ hp and had the proper fuel systems and tune to run it.

The upsides to Ethanol are the cooling factor, being that it is alcohol basically and will cool the charge temps in the combustion chamber (versus meth in the charge pipes/manifold), the octane as E85 is about 109.5 Octane depending on mix (most is mixed with 87, some is cut with 89 or 91), and since it requires about 35% more E85 to achieve the same energy as gasoline, you have more exhaust gas flowing into the turbo for faster spool time. When I started tuning with E85 back in 2005, I found that you really have a difficult time making the vehicles knock at all, and power will actually fall off before you have any detonation. That means its incredibly safe and takes one more possibility of failure away, other than something internally failing due to power or other unrelated cause.
Basically Ethanol is a wonderful fuel if your vehicle can correctly handle it.

Downsides, and this is a long list which is why I don't recommend it for those who don't constantly monitor their vehicles, have access to a dyno, etc. One of the big issues with the BMW is that our vehicles are not flex fuel, meaning they don't read the alcohol content of the fuel and adjust for the mix. Thankfully the BMW computers DO correct for air fuel ratio, and quite quickly, so they are able to adjust up to 30% for lean/rich, which covers the window of about 30% E85. The octane boost alone isn't substantial from this, however the addition of charge temp cooling with the octane makes a decent different.
Downside #2 - since the BMWs cant adjust for actual alcohol content and have limits before throwing a check engine light, you have to monitor how much fuel you are putting in to make sure it is properly mixed AND monitor the mixture of ethanol at your pump. There is NO government regulated requirements for ethanol mix, so some pumps may be 20% off or more from others. Here in Phoenix, the minimum state allowed alcohol content is 55%, so we have E55 at a minimum, however it could be E75, E85 etc and you wouldn't know unless you test alcohol content at the pump, or purchase a sensor and install it into your vehicle (which wont tell you until AFTER you put the fuel in). In Tucson just 90 min away, they have E70 minimum, so id have to adjust my mix any time I travel to Tucson and fill up... I don't personally know how many gallons are in my tank at any given time, so its a crap shoot based on how many gallons I can calculate off of miles remaining before empty and an educated guess of how many gallons of each fuel to use.
Downside # 3 - Like any alcohol, E85 is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water over time. Storing it in a tank for extended periods of time can cause water absorption and octane reduction. It is also corrosive, so while any newer vehicle should be able to handle it just fine, it isn't recommended to leave higher amounts in vehicles for extended periods of time if you store them or don't drive them often. This was a big issue with domestic vehicles as many still used plastic/rubber hoses, or fuel kits that weren't E85 compatible. Bare aluminum can also have issues, however with a small mix, it would be less of a problem.
Downside #4 - fuel system limitations / fuel mileage decrease etc - Since it requires 35% more E85 to achieve the same energy as gasoline, you get 35% less fuel economy. This isn't a huge issue running a 30% mix and may only lose 1 mpg, but it does reduce range if you don't have E85 stations all over the valley, and storing it in your garage isn't advised because it wont last, as stated in Downside #3. With fuel system limitations, each car is affected differently... Port fuel injected cars aren't an issue as injector size can be easily increased, fuel pumps boosted or replaced etc. On direct injection cars, once you hit the limits of your injector, you are out of fuel and the vehicle will start surging. Whatever limit the vehicle has on gasoline, you have to reduce by 40% for E85 (its 35% more fuel, but remember E85 is inconsistent at the pump so the general rule of thumb is an extra 5% minimum on fuel systems, where as I like to see 10 as electric pumps don't always run at 100% and other factors such as fuel temp/heat etc can decrease flow). While I don't know the exact limitations of the X5 vehicles injectors, I do know them on many others, including my N55 435i, which is why I switched to methanol and 91. Im sure someone can chime in with the injector flow limits, or I can call ESS and im sure hes found it before.
Downside #5 - cold starts/hot restarts. If you didn't know, alcohol cars are VERY difficult to start in cold weather, as well as when hot. This is why there is a minimum of 15% gasoline is to help. Think of it as putting a bottle of Vodka or other alcohol in the freezer. Alcohol has an extremely low freezing point, however it will gel up and cause problems. My Cobra ran on E85 and if I parked it outside at night (20 degrees in the winter at lowest, 30 average), it would be a REAL pain to start and drive for the first couple minutes until the engine/fuel rails warmed up. On the other side, when your engine is hot, the warm E85 in the rails easily turns to vapor and makes a warm restart difficult, often impossible for a short period of time (watching people stall their manual transmission vehicles and be stuck in an intersection can be funny!). With 30% or less mix, you wont see a lot of these issues as you are mostly running gasoline, but with the higher the alcohol content, the more issue you see on a vehicle not designed around alcohol, nor with a proper crank fuel adder for alcohol which helps the engine start by adding more fuel specifically for alcohol.

Anyway, these are my views. As you can see, I like both, however for those who aren't super automotive saavy or really monitor their vehicles, Methanol is the "install and forget" setup that only requires you add methanol, but wont have any issue if you don't.

[pits200]

Yikes, I want to respond but work is killing me now.

Noted. I will respond by tomorrow with my rebuttal and won't ignore your detailed post!

[DuSh]

I'm just here to learn from both of you guys. It looks like you both know a lot more than I ever will. (prepares pen and paper to take down some points and tips).

P.S. It finally looks like we have some knowledgeable people in N63TU game

[CT335xi]

I have a quick point to make as I run a alcohol system on my evo 8 , built engine and fbo , I run 100% denatured alcohol. The point I wanted to make is I run a Aquamist kit which are very well engineered and run a failsafe with a flow sensor, so in other words no flow and car has boost dropped considerably, but here is the issue when tuning with meth or alcohol it obviously will have a effect on your afr’s and make them richer, and more so depending on how much your spraying. In my case it’s up to a full point on my afr if I take the alcohol out of the equation, now obviously a evo isn’t a bmw but if I wanted I would have to have another map made to run just 93 as I try to keep my afr in the 11.2-11.7 range running alcohol to be safe but it will jump in to the 12’s with no alcohol which is a little lean for my liking. That is why I would prefer another map for 93 as all the fuel tables change to much for my tune , rather play it safe. I would like to run e85 but none in my area and would have to drive over 50 miles. Anyways FeinixMike nice write up and looking forward hearing from pits200 as he has very good info too !!

[fosterelli]

I cook meth in my RV out in the desert if anyone wants to connect. Screw ethanol and the corn subsidies. If I mess up a batch of Blue the only person I hurt is Jesse...and he's a halfwit.

[pits200]

I'm going to handle this in portions or else I will never get this answered. To preface, my argument here is an e25 to e50 mix as a comparison to meth.

Meth

Agree with the upsides, easy to store, easy to refill, and helps IATs, those are all givens. Too many people use meth to push boost and IA limits then as you stated, if there is an event where flows stops, they get detonation, glow codes, etc, I just don't feel it's worth the risk.

Downside 1: Now as for even flow, that is a tough problem, you move it he nozzles too close to the cylinders, atomization is a problem, you move it too far to the chargepipethen you have the uneven flow problem.


Downside 2: installation- you need to tap multiple areas inside the engine bay to install the nozzles, mount a pump that should be below the tank, install of the tank, integration to controller, failsafe components, etc. For the average enthusiast, this would be a nightmare along with ensuring no future leaks at any of the flow components. Considering the flammability of meth and the level of heat the the n63 produces with top mounted turbos, this would probably be the number one downside.

Ethanol

Im doing this on my phone so the downside numbers won't match yours and I'll give my rebuttals.

Downside 1: I agree, availability is definitely a factor but hey, life isn't fair for those unlucky non ethanol individuals. But this really isn't a downside ot the product. Also, only way I would ever recommend using e85 is if you had a handheld flasher. You need 2 maps. Your 91/93 map and you e30 to e50 map. This way you can go back and forth and have the best of both worlds. With a bench tune, you're right, I have no idea how this would work.

Downside 2: Variability of e content at stations, this is
true but you can integrate a flex fuel sensor pretty easily, maybe not on this platform but that can be resolved. Also, with your tune, it doesn't need to be exact. The fuel scalars have a range, if you have boost and IAs set for an e40 tune and you accidentally get e25, the car won't blow up. As we all know, most gas is already e10 but some stations still tout no ethanol, do the tables not compensate and with the very intelligent wideband o2 sensor we have a ton of leeway with not needing exact ethanol content.

Downside 3: hydroscopic- true but I don't know if I've ever seen that case unless the car was left for months at a time. This won't happen from leaving your car for a week while on vacation. Once again, how do true flex fuel cars deal with this and it not a huge provlem?

Downside 4- fuel mileage, come on lol. If you're tuning, who cars if your range decrease 2 mpg on an e40 tune. Also, this cost is offset by the much cheaper price for e85 so in essence it's a wash.

Downside 5 - fuel system limitations, you stated it before, cylinder pressure required for a direct inject Injector requires thousands of Psi vs double digits for port. This leads to the injectors needing to have a wide range of flow and very precise windows. I can only speak for the n54 which I think shares the same injectors but they were flow tested to not need to be supplementes until ridiculous hp numbers. I had port injection along on my n54 not due to the injectors maxing out but due to the high pressure fuel pump not having an upgrade market and maxing out around 600whp. For the people with the n63, they would not need to upgrade 1 fueling component to run an e40 mix besides a tune, I can almost guarantee that.

Downside 6-cold starts, this is true, when I use to run straight e85 which was about e70 in my area, when the Temps dipped below 30 degrees it would take 2 or 3 starts. But being the n54 platform was more robust, the cold start tables were found and you could adjust fuel demand in particular conditions, problem solved. But when I was running anything under e50, maybe e40, I never had any cold start problems.

OK, as for the pros of ethanol, it's just awesome! I will respond soon with the ethanol pros but I hope I've addressed most of the topics and these are obviously only based on my research and opinions. My expertise is much more limited in scope as my 335 was my first car that I truly dabbled in to this extent. Your breadth of experience in the domestic market is an area I wouldn't be able to hold a candle as I haven't had a domestic since my 1987 dodge shadow.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 1: Now as for even flow, that is a tough problem, you move it he nozzles too close to the cylinders, atomization is a problem, you move it too far to the chargepipethen you have the uneven flow problem.

With using meth only as a charge cooler, and not as a fuel replacement, placing the nozzle in the charge pipe is more than sufficient... most going the methanol route will already have purchased charge pipes, all of which to my knowledge are pre-tapped with a bung for methanol. The only purpose for a manifold setup (which there are some fantastic intake spacer kits) would be as a fuel system replacement, which I agree isn't ideal. Atomization and distribution isn't an issue when cooling the air charge only as the vehicle works fine with or without it, and minimal differences between cylinder combustion will not cause an issue.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 2: installation- you need to tap multiple areas inside the engine bay to install the nozzles, mount a pump that should be below the tank, install of the tank, integration to controller, failsafe components, etc. For the average enthusiast, this would be a nightmare along with ensuring no future leaks at any of the flow components. Considering the flammability of meth and the level of heat the the n63 produces with top mounted turbos, this would probably be the number one downside.

mostly answered with my above points, but you are comparing using meth as a fuel system, where I am stating NOT to do so, and saying its for charge cooling only. Burger makes meth tanks for most BMW models which have the pump mounted to the bottom of the tank (they work BEAUTIFULLY, Thanks Burger!), making the kit a true bolt on since the charge pipes are already tapped for the nozzle. As far as the meth system catching on fire, youre at more of a risk from the N63s leaking oil and catching on fire, where as an issue with the meth will be directly related to installation issue unless you have a defective part. Any time you modify a factory vehicle you run this risk... that's part of the game.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 1: I agree, availability is definitely a factor but hey, life isn't fair for those unlucky non ethanol individuals. But this really isn't a downside ot the product. Also, only way I would ever recommend using e85 is if you had a handheld flasher. You need 2 maps. Your 91/93 map and you e30 to e50 map. This way you can go back and forth and have the best of both worlds. With a bench tune, you're right, I have no idea how this would work.

you get 30% +/- before the ECU throws a code because it is no longer in range of compensation. You tune for your local highest octane and the O2 sensors will compensate the AFR to the programmed PE ratio requested. Timing is covered by knock sensors, but tuning for a fuel you cant always get, or using tunes with an unknown amount of fuel in the tank is playing with fire. I run a 20-30% E mix in my tank, but ive accepted it wont ever be exact and just try to fill up around the same time based on either miles remaining or the needle placement on the fuel gauge. It works for me because im experienced, I know what to listen to as far as knock, and I can read the codes to see if I get a lean out of range code and go top off with 91 to increase the gasoline ratio.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 2: Variability of e content at stations, this is
true but you can integrate a flex fuel sensor pretty easily, maybe not on this platform but that can be resolved. Also, with your tune, it doesn't need to be exact. The fuel scalars have a range, if you have boost and IAs set for an e40 tune and you accidentally get e25, the car won't blow up. As we all know, most gas is already e10 but some stations still tout no ethanol, do the tables not compensate and with the very intelligent wideband o2 sensor we have a ton of leeway with not needing exact ethanol content.

This is the issue, you have to buy one of the kits with an alcohol sensor, BUT that only reads what you already have in the tank. To be exact, you need to also measure ethanol content at the pump prior to putting it in your tank to calculate mixtures. As stated previously, Ethanol isn't government regulated on the max content, only the minimum content. If it states E55 minimum at the pump, it could be E55 or E90. If it states E70 at the pump, it could be similar. On the other side, if you have multiple stations in town which go through ethanol quicker or slower than the other, you have it sitting in a tank with alcohol separating. There are a lot of factors and im sure some engineers on here would love to hop in and better explain it. Will the car blow up? not likely unless your tune is on the ragged edge for E40 and you get a bad tank. The knock sensors have limits as does the ability to adjust AFR. Thankfully having direct injection helps a ton with cooling factor, however you are dealing with a LOT of variables, and I can guarantee less than 1% using mixtures are measuring E content at the pump, in the tank, and adjusting tunes accordingly. Not everyone has that ability, carries a laptop around with them, or can access ethanol stations within a reasonable difference. Do I think it works? Yes I do, however my point is it is NOT for EVERYONE, specifically those who don't want to go through the above listed chores every time.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 3: hydroscopic- true but I don't know if I've ever seen that case unless the car was left for months at a time. This won't happen from leaving your car for a week while on vacation. Once again, how do true flex fuel cars deal with this and it not a huge provlem?

Hygroscopic (id imagine your phone may have changed it, but this is the correct term), and two weeks is the point at which this issue will start setting in. That also depends on how long the fuel was at the pump station before putting it in your tank. Flex fuel cars are not exempt, and many will require a more rigorous maintenance schedule when running Ethanol. If you read the owners manual for maintenance, the recommend oil changes almost twice as often (sometimes more) for factory flex fuel vehicles due to the issues caused to your engine from running ethanol. Oil is easily contaminated from ethanol, and components not protected from alcohol can also be at risk. Running a mix you are less likely to see long term effects, however you can send out your oil and have samples taken to see if you are getting higher levels of contamination. Just recently on my previous vehicle which was a supercharged Flex Fuel 2017 Toyota Tundra, maintenance is included with the vehicle, and the owners manual recommends oil changes at 2500 miles, where as non flex fuel can go 10,000 miles between oil changes.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 4- fuel mileage, come on lol. If you're tuning, who cars if your range decrease 2 mpg on an e40 tune. Also, this cost is offset by the much cheaper price for e85 so in essence it's a wash.

Cost is one thing, youre correct that it is offset at the pump, however mileage is something to think about from a convenience point of view. There are two E85 stations within 20 min of me, both are completely out of the way no matter where I am, so I have to plan when I get fuel to make sure I have time to go there. Id imagine in some states or cities, there may be even less... that extra 30-40 miles per tank is a big difference since that's a few extra days of commuting to work for me, as opposed to planning an hour round trip to one of the stations.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 5 - fuel system limitations, you stated it before, cylinder pressure required for a direct inject Injector requires thousands of Psi vs double digits for port. This leads to the injectors needing to have a wide range of flow and very precise windows. I can only speak for the n54 which I think shares the same injectors but they were flow tested to not need to be supplementes until ridiculous hp numbers. I had port injection along on my n54 not due to the injectors maxing out but due to the high pressure fuel pump not having an upgrade market and maxing out around 600whp. For the people with the n63, they would not need to upgrade 1 fueling component to run an e40 mix besides a tune, I can almost guarantee that.

I will get the exact specs this week or next and see what the limitations are on the N63. I know my N55 435i is at its limits already, and anyone running a stage 2 turbo has to see aftermarket fuel such as methanol, or upgrade to a $6,000+ fuel system.

Originally Posted by pits200

Downside 6-cold starts, this is true, when I use to run straight e85 which was about e70 in my area, when the Temps dipped below 30 degrees it would take 2 or 3 starts. But being the n54 platform was more robust, the cold start tables were found and you could adjust fuel demand in particular conditions, problem solved. But when I was running anything under e50, maybe e40, I never had any cold start problems.

since you are specifically stating E mix and not straight E85, I will stay off this topic as we both seem to agree. The issue with cold start tables on a non flex car is they will also apply to the gasoline starts. Not really a huge issue for minimal adjustment, or if youre running dual tunes, however not fantastic for going back and forth between the two on a single tune.

Originally Posted by pits200

OK, as for the pros of ethanol, it's just awesome! I will respond soon with the ethanol pros but I hope I've addressed most of the topics and these are obviously only based on my research and opinions. My expertise is much more limited in scope as my 335 was my first car that I truly dabbled in to this extent. Your breadth of experience in the domestic market is an area I wouldn't be able to hold a candle as I haven't had a domestic since my 1987 dodge shadow.

I appreciate that... I ran E mix on my 550i, X5 and 435i, and when possible, I dialed any boosted domestic vehicle for straight E. Ive also been tuning domestic vehicles for E85 since it became popular out here in 2006.

I think we tend to agree on most points with the main difference in opinion being the convenience factor and "everyone should do XXX". As a prior performance shop owner of 7 years, the largest factor in a sale for me is liability. Giving someone who has never had a fast car before something that requires maintenance, adjustments, or anything more than filling it up and turning the key can often be a recipe for disaster. The forums are filled with regurgitated material, much of it false or hypothetical... the blind leading the blind if you will. While you and I may have significant experience with our own vehicles running specific combos, many others will read what they see as factual "one size fits all" information and try it themselves without doing any sort of scanning, tuning, or verification. On a daily basis I hear "well Johnny Race Car did it on the forums and said it works, so im going to do it too", and it sometimes ends in disaster when the planets don't align or one variable is off, etc. In my personal opinion (opinion only), I feel methanol is more of a forgive and forget as you dial the boost settings in you want and see the significant gains only from the octane and charge cooling increase, while not having to tune, mix fuels, or make any other adjustments. I don't recommend it as a replacement fuel system, but there are plenty out there who do run it that way with great results, but they are also well aware of the issues, and tend to stay on top of the system, maintenance, etc.

[DuSh]

Wow, you guys gave so much information, I still have to read it and digest. At this point I'm just looking at all options to consider which one will give best balanced maximum power on stock turbos.

Option 1. JB4_Beta (for n63tu) + BCM + 3.5bar TMAP + meth kit (from Burger). This should work on Map 8 (progressive meth map with up to 30psi - but realistically stock turbos max at 25psi). What I don't know in this setup is what fuel I will need (besides meth used mainly for cooling purpose)? Will it be 91 or 93 or maybe E30 mix? This option is tempting, but I'm a bit afraid of various glitches and errors (a lot of threads about it unfortunately)

Option 2. BootMod3 Stage 2 custom flash with 3.5bar TMAP and ask tuner to allow max boost up to 25psi. Tune for E30 mix (not exactly sure yet what mix is available near me and how to change a tune if I'll need to use different mix? Or will it adjust itself? I have no idea yet lol.

Another unknown for me is the fact that I'm already flashed with Stage 1 tune, so if I go with JB4 - isn't it kinda stacked? If so - I have no idea how it will work to be honest. AFAIK JB4 can increase or add to flash, but can't go below DME parameters. So in theory it should increase my current max 17-18psi to whatever map I will have it on.

P.S. I asked Burger Tuning and they do make chargepipes with tapped nozzles for S63TU, but not for N63TU. So I guess, if I go with meth kit I'll need to tap myself somehow to n63tu chargepipes.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Wow, you guys gave so much information, I still have to read it and digest. At this point I'm just looking at all options to consider which one will give best balanced maximum power on stock turbos.

Option 1. JB4_Beta (for n63tu) + BCM + 3.5bar TMAP + meth kit (from Burger). This should work on Map 8 (progressive meth map with up to 30psi - but realistically stock turbos max at 25psi). What I don't know in this setup is what fuel I will need (besides meth used mainly for cooling purpose)? Will it be 91 or 93 or maybe E30 mix? This option is tempting, but I'm a bit afraid of various glitches and errors (a lot of threads about it unfortunately)

Option 2. BootMod3 Stage 2 custom flash with 3.5bar TMAP and ask tuner to allow max boost up to 25psi. Tune for E30 mix (not exactly sure yet what mix is available near me and how to change a tune if I'll need to use different mix? Or will it adjust itself? I have no idea yet lol.

Another unknown for me is the fact that I'm already flashed with Stage 1 tune, so if I go with JB4 - isn't it kinda stacked? If so - I have no idea how it will work to be honest. AFAIK JB4 can increase or add to flash, but can't go below DME parameters. So in theory it should increase my current max 17-18psi to whatever map I will have it on.

P.S. I asked Burger Tuning and they do make chargepipes with tapped nozzles for S63TU, but not for N63TU. So I guess, if I go with meth kit I'll need to tap myself somehow to n63tu chargepipes.

A ton of suppliers make plastic and metal bungs that you just drill a hole in the tube, stick the bung through, seal it, then install the lock nut on top. I believe some companies also have throttle body spacers with the bung for a meth nozzle, or at least they do for the N55 engines. It also wouldn't be tough to just order a 6 inch section of steel/aluminum tube and have a bung welded, then cut the hose and clamp it in the middle. Tons of options, all which work well as long as its sealed and will withstand boost. Being a fabricator, id just build a hard pipe, but lots of online options that can be installed in 10 minutes available online.

[Timberwolf]

I ran an Aquamist/Burger motorsports kit on my N54 powered 135i for over 3 years! I loved it, but it was a pain to refill!

Don't forget that inhaling methanol is not healthy. So if you have a minor leak which these systems can develop over time, you may not want your family in the car, if that applies. I always ran a 70/30 distilled water meth mix which I tested for flammability as pure meth is highly flammable, with no issues.

It really made a difference with killing heat soak, allowing for more boost and potentially keeping internals cleaner from carbon deposits... Not sure on the last piece.

I will say that when I pulled the system out, the float sensor wire was nearly corroded off completely, even at the ratios I was mixing. That would have been an annoying spill in my trunk. So these systems need to be checked.


I also ran some E85 mix which is easy to get near me but tricky to mix. The other downside was a few long cold starts and it too has corrosive properties. The upside was race gas at cheap rates!

I'll probably go and mix some E85 to a rate of 30% with my ESS Stage 1 tune. I really need to run the vbox to see what she does. With the tune, it can compensate and feed more boost in based on octane. So if I switch back to 93 it just goes back to a lower boost map. No brainer to me!