HELP! 17 X5M with 52k miles Complete Engine Failure

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Thank you so much for this information. I will pass this on to the mechanic tomorrow and keep you posted.
I appreciate you!

No problem. Engine failure like this is not common on this platform, there are many of us with the previous generation engine that still shares many of the same core components as your engine (oil pump, connecting rods, bearings, etc) well over 100k miles . I myself am at 175k miles and flog it daily. There must be a manufacturing defect as I mentioned before at the root cause of this. My bet would be since each engine is hand assembled, it most likely does come down to simple human error on the production line. Finding such evidence should make your case even stronger for BMW covering the complete replacement cost.

You may have to lawyer up before the end of this though. Might not be a bad idea to have your mechanic take pics/videos at every step of the post mortem.

[8202632]

Here is the post from the very helpful fellow bimmerposter:

https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1847303

[J0hnnyB0yx5m]

Dame this is scary as it gets.. at this point your at if I were u I'd bro g to trustworthy Bmw Indy specialist and let them tear motor down find out what actually happen.. if motor didn't actually blow up and didn't have huge pieces metal I'd be pretty sure it could be rebuilt for under 10k maybe less.. smh this makes me wanna sell mine before something like this happens.. best of luck and keep us posted..

https://www.rkautowerks.com/index.ph...stock-rebuild/

These are the guys I'd be talking to!

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by BMWNYC1

Yea most important is to make sure the oil is there lol. Most of these grenade engines spring a leak and are ran on little to no oil. I change my oil every other season.

Isn't the system supposed to monitor oil levels and warn you when you need to add a quart?

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by J0hnnyB0yx5m

Dame this is scary as it gets.. at this point your at if I were u I'd bro g to trustworthy Bmw Indy specialist and let them tear motor down find out what actually happen.. if motor didn't actually blow up and didn't have huge pieces metal I'd be pretty sure it could be rebuilt for under 10k maybe less.. smh this makes me wanna sell mine before something like this happens.. best of luck and keep us posted..

https://www.rkautowerks.com/index.ph...stock-rebuild/

These are the guys I'd be talking to!

So, not to get off topic too much but... If you were rebuilding an engine (which it seems like you already have to an extent?), how much more would it cost to add a setup like Weistec turbos and tuning, downpipes/exhaust, and beef up the transmission to handle it? Just curious because if I had to rebuild out of warranty (which I never want to experience), I would want an absolute monster for spending that much money...

[Bankerbry]

Hey guys.
I just wanted to give you an update. I just heard from the BMW dealership and engine does need to be replaced. Their initial determination is that is started on top and was the result of having an aftermarket oil filter. ? My wife and I just bought this vehicle 1500 miles ago from a large reputable dealer in Denver. Obviously we purchased the car as it is, and the oil filter was either installed by them or they did not do the pre sale inspection as they stated. I've reached out to the dealership for some form of goodwill, but it doesn't look good.
To add salt to the wound it sounds like BMW is going to use this fact to deny any assistance.
The scary part is that the dealer told me that they just had a 2020 X5M in with a blown engine due to the oil filter.
I'm not sure if this all makes sense to me, so please feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions.
To be very honest, I am absolutely sick about the whole thing. I don't think anyone would feel okay about having to put an additional $30k into their used vehicle!!
Thanks

[Bankerbry]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

Isn't the system supposed to monitor oil levels and warn you when you need to add a quart?

Yes, there was a little over 8 quarts of oil in the vehicle, and I believe it holds 10 quarts.

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Hey guys.
I just wanted to give you an update. I just heard from the BMW dealership and engine does need to be replaced. Their initial determination is that is started on top and was the result of having an aftermarket oil filter. ? My wife and I just bought this vehicle 1500 miles ago from a large reputable dealer in Denver. Obviously we purchased the car as it is, and the oil filter was either installed by them or they did not do the pre sale inspection as they stated. I've reached out to the dealership for some form of goodwill, but it doesn't look good.
To add salt to the wound it sounds like BMW is going to use this fact to deny any assistance.
The scary part is that the dealer told me that they just had a 2020 X5M in with a blown engine due to the oil filter.
I'm not sure if this all makes sense to me, so please feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions.
To be very honest, I am absolutely sick about the whole thing. I don't think anyone would feel okay about having to put an additional $30k into their used vehicle!!
Thanks

Their initial determination is that is started on top and was the result of having an aftermarket oil filter. ?

Absolute Bull***t

Just trying to swerve a claim

[YvesD]

What next? You weren't using the BMW recommended fuel, oil, washer fluid etc🤔

[slow_roll]

Or the "blinker" fluid was low resulting in a blow motor
Unless they can prove that a non BMW oil filter is the direct cause of engine failure, it's total BS.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Hey guys.
I just wanted to give you an update. I just heard from the BMW dealership and engine does need to be replaced. Their initial determination is that is started on top and was the result of having an aftermarket oil filter. ? My wife and I just bought this vehicle 1500 miles ago from a large reputable dealer in Denver. Obviously we purchased the car as it is, and the oil filter was either installed by them or they did not do the pre sale inspection as they stated. I've reached out to the dealership for some form of goodwill, but it doesn't look good.
To add salt to the wound it sounds like BMW is going to use this fact to deny any assistance.
The scary part is that the dealer told me that they just had a 2020 X5M in with a blown engine due to the oil filter.
I'm not sure if this all makes sense to me, so please feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions.
To be very honest, I am absolutely sick about the whole thing. I don't think anyone would feel okay about having to put an additional $30k into their used vehicle!!
Thanks

Not surprised they are trying to wiggle their way out of this, 35K isn't pocket change. Find out what brand of filter was in it. Not that many manufactures make this filter so chances are it is a MANN, WIX (WIX is a division of MANN and the filters are identical), or MAHLE. All are OEM suppliers for BMW.

Now it is possible they did something stupid like install the filter upside down, it is not hard to do with the design of the oil filter used in the S63TU.

I would still demand they check out the oil pump sprocket and chain and show you pics or let you inspect yourself. They will most likely be dicks and charge you the labor if they don't find anything but it shouldn't cost more then a few hundred and worth the gamble IMHO.

At the end of the day, if they end up screwing you and refuse to do anything and you don't feel like going into litigation, the best bet would to have your engine rebuilt by one of the popular BMW tuners and have it built with aftermarket rods and pistons. Even if you are not into tuning, you can easily get back most of your investment when it comes time to sell your X5 as most would pay extra for a freshly built bullet-proof S63TU. Expect to pay around 10K for a stock rebuild from a tuner like RK Autowerks, 15-20K for a aftermarket rod/piston rebuild depending on all you do to it. Plus around 3K for removal and install of the engines from a Indie shop. Basically if BMW screws you, you can replace the engine yourself for less then half of what BMW will charge you.

[ajob]

It's hard to offer sensible advice, but, if still in time to do do, I suggest you try getting a "forensic" (i.e., valid in court) download of the various error codes etc. of your car.

Reason is the following: you describe a special case shutdown, after a hard acceleration without significant engine damage noise - but the car's software identified some special engine state requiring an immediate shutdown AND a forced shifting in neutral, further announcing a "no restart" condition. This looks to me like a rare, predetermined engine software decision and you should find out what combination of engine conditions may cause such a software output.

You may be lucky and identify the combination of sensor values that caused such an unusual shutdown configuration - the forced shifting in neutral may also indicate a sudden damage condition requiring to istantaneously decouple the engine from the transmission to avoid locking the wheels at speed - for instance, a broken crankshaft may be such a case and would be sensed and diagnosticated in milliseconds by the engine computer.

Maybe you can locate a legal office with experience in such cases and they will tell you how to proceed to collect the evidence. What you don't want is people erasing engine sensor values before you can validly collect them.

If the emergency shutdown was caused by a vital component failure AND if the manufacturer knows that you know, you may find yourself in a good position to negotiate an engine replacement at a much lower cost.

[slow_roll]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Now it is possible they did something stupid like install the filter upside down, it is not hard to do with the design of the oil filter used in the S63TU.

Asking for a friend. Assuming if oil filter was installed upside down, what damage can it truly cause?

[Bankerbry]

I appreciate all of the responses. I'm going to have an extremely strong worded conversation with the service manager tomorrow about their BS theory and after market oil filter. I'm also waiting to hear back from BMW of NA.
I will request pictures of everything and also a forensics of the error codes.
I will keep you posted. Thank you all again.
I think everyone of us as BMW owners should be concerned about their BS if the try to weasel their way out of this.
IMO this can go two ways:
Solidify a BMW customer for life, or create a very loud enemy. As a business owner, the return on a goodwill gesture by fixing an obvious flawed engine will pay back in spades.

[musa]

Originally Posted by slow_roll

Asking for a friend. Assuming if oil filter was installed upside down, what damage can it truly cause?

I think unfiltered oil would escape and flow back into the system since there would not be a complete seal to allow all oil to flow into the filter. I think the circumstances would have to be perfect to cause damage - spirited driving accompanied by frequent control launches, lack of oil change with poor oil filtration, etc. The OP had posted a while back complaining about very stiff suspension. It appears the vehicle was probably heavily moded and abused before the OP acquired the vehicle (with most modes removed prior to the sale). It could also be just a case of bad luck (in which case implies BMW engineering assembly issues), but this seems rare, and this particular case could fall under that umbrella.

[JMAN1111]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

I appreciate all of the responses. I'm going to have an extremely strong worded conversation with the service manager tomorrow about their BS theory and after market oil filter. I'm also waiting to hear back from BMW of NA.
I will request pictures of everything and also a forensics of the error codes.
I will keep you posted. Thank you all again.
I think everyone of us as BMW owners should be concerned about their BS if the try to weasel their way out of this.
IMO this can go two ways:
Solidify a BMW customer for life, or create a very loud enemy. As a business owner, the return on a goodwill gesture by fixing an obvious flawed engine will pay back in spades.

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

I appreciate all of the responses. I'm going to have an extremely strong worded conversation with the service manager tomorrow about their BS theory and after market oil filter. I'm also waiting to hear back from BMW of NA.
I will request pictures of everything and also a forensics of the error codes.
I will keep you posted. Thank you all again.
I think everyone of us as BMW owners should be concerned about their BS if the try to weasel their way out of this.
IMO this can go two ways:
Solidify a BMW customer for life, or create a very loud enemy. As a business owner, the return on a goodwill gesture by fixing an obvious flawed engine will pay back in spades.

I would hire a private automotive expert that is known in your area to head on down to this stealership and investigate everything!

Sounds like bs About the filter. Ask what brand this "defective" filter was?! The Mahle filter for our cars is the same exact as the genuine Bmw part*… without the price tag.

[Bankerbry]

Originally Posted by JMAN1111

I would hire a private automotive expert that is known in your area to head on down to this stealership and investigate everything!

Sounds like bs About the filter. Ask what brand this "defective" filter was?! The Mahle filter for our cars is the same exact as the genuine Bmw part*… without the price tag.

I couldn't agree more!

[blown99]

What dealership in Denver?? I bought mine from Schomp and not overly impressed with them. BMW Loveland has been great. Just curious. I think I saw yours down there when I was in for service a month or two ago

[Bankerbry]

It was purchased from Sill-Terhar Motors in Broomfield, CO

[Yuille36]

It absolutely pains me to hear about this, I truly wish you the best in getting this rectified.

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Hey guys.
I just wanted to give you an update. I just heard from the BMW dealership and engine does need to be replaced. Their initial determination is that is started on top and was the result of having an aftermarket oil filter. ? My wife and I just bought this vehicle 1500 miles ago from a large reputable dealer in Denver. Obviously we purchased the car as it is, and the oil filter was either installed by them or they did not do the pre sale inspection as they stated. I've reached out to the dealership for some form of goodwill, but it doesn't look good.
To add salt to the wound it sounds like BMW is going to use this fact to deny any assistance.
The scary part is that the dealer told me that they just had a 2020 X5M in with a blown engine due to the oil filter.
I'm not sure if this all makes sense to me, so please feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions.
To be very honest, I am absolutely sick about the whole thing. I don't think anyone would feel okay about having to put an additional $30k into their used vehicle!!
Thanks

Per Magnusson-Moss, they can't condition warranty on use of OEM parts. Some good material here: https://www.autocare.org/government-...s-Warranty-Act

Unfortunately, you're out of the warranty coverage, so they can spin it however they want to avoid having to goodwill it (not sure why - the dealer will get to bill BMWNA several hours for engine replacement). Do you have any recourse with the selling dealer? If they refuse to accept responsibility, you might have a good claim against the selling dealer for negligence if you can have BMW document the reason as an aftermarket filter for engine failure, putting you and your family at risk.

[Bankerbry]

Hi guys. Just a brief update, and I will be posting photos soon from the servicing dealer. I did receive full documentation of the findings including any error codes. The oil filter is Mahle which from my understanding is an oem supplier to BMW. When I questioned the dealer about this he started asking questions if the vehicle has had an aftermarket tune. It has not.
He stated that the service history looked good, but the previous owner missed the 1200 mile service and the 40,000 mile service. Really feels to me that they are grasping at straws!!
I definitely think I got their attention by asking for full documentation and indicated to them that I won't roll over and have lawyered up just in case.
Happy New Year!! I appreciate the help from this community