Cross Shopping X5?

[BMWBIASED]

Appreciate indulging me in my vetting of current SUVs that you may have considered in your search. Realizing my audience, I know there may be some bias but wanted to see if anything out there would give me reason to really investigate. My wife is coming off an X5 3.5i and we've had good luck with it. It's been a serviceable family hauler(1 toddler, trying for #2 soon) and because I'm in a wheelchair, low enough for me to lift myself in to the driver's seat.

The issue comes in that the in laws have switched to Audis (s3 & a8) and are constantly singing the praises of the brand.

After all that set up, here's what is currently on my radar:
Volvo XC90 - heard good things.
Audi Q7 - wife's front runner.
X5m - wife has driven it, liked it but "I don't need that much power babe"...I know, but I still love her.
Used Cayenne TT - drove it before my injury, blew my mind and has adjustable suspension.

If you're not sick of reading, I value informed opinions if anyone was/is in a similar situation(minus the chair I hope). Thanks all

[Rotzy]

Originally Posted by BMWBIASED

Appreciate indulging me in my vetting of current SUVs that you may have considered in your search. Realizing my audience, I know there may be some bias but wanted to see if anything out there would give me reason to really investigate. My wife is coming off an X5 3.5i and we've had good luck with it. It's been a serviceable family hauler(1 toddler, trying for #2 soon) and because I'm in a wheelchair, low enough for me to lift myself in to the driver's seat.

The issue comes in that the in laws have switched to Audis (s3 & a8) and are constantly singing the praises of the brand.

After all that set up, here's what is currently on my radar:
Volvo XC90 - heard good things.
Audi Q7 - wife's front runner.
X5m - wife has driven it, liked it but "I don't need that much power babe"...I know, but I still love her.
Used Cayenne TT - drove it before my injury, blew my mind and has adjustable suspension.

If you're not sick of reading, I value informed opinions if anyone was/is in a similar situation(minus the chair I hope). Thanks all

We cross shopped a Range Rover Sport, Mercedes ML (now a GLE), and a Porchse Cayenne. A sporty, entertaining drive was high on our must-have list.

We really liked the Range Rover. It's not nearly as sporty as the X5, but it does have a beautifully simply interior with some nice technological goodies and a beautiful body. In the end, we were worried about it's long term reliability as we tend to keep our SUVs a while.

The Mercedes was completely uninspiring. Body roll was excessive, it didn't like being pushed or driven hard and was generally boring. We didn't drive an ML 63, and I'm sure that's an entirely different animal.

It sounds like you've already driven a Cayenne Turbo, so do I really need to tell you how awesome it is?

In the end, we went with the F15 Msport. We are a BMW family and are really enjoying them all. My only regret was not waiting for a M Adaptive or DHP suspension.

[Flying Ace]

okay wheel chair and your ability to ingress and egress from the car aside, these cars you listed indeed are the competitors of the X5.


But I'm not sure what you're looking to debate on a BMW forum. Most people here have made up their mind the X5 is the better car for their purpose. So if you list your key criteria out maybe some people will help you compare and contrast your options. Here's an example of a specific thread, this poster needed a 7 seater, so he specifically only compared SUVs with 7 seats with the primary criteria of having usable room in the 3rd row:

http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1303940

Sounds like your primary criteria would be your ability to ingress and egress, so you should probably start with a trimmed down list of what actually works for you first.

Otherwise, you're just going to get a bunch of noise from people giving you random reasons why they bought X5, with poverty being a major factor why they didn't go P-car or Land Rover or Bentyaga.

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

We cross shopped a Range Rover Sport, Mercedes ML (now a GLE), and a Porchse Cayenne. A sporty, entertaining drive was high on our must-have list.

We really liked the Range Rover. It's not nearly as sporty as the X5, but it does have a beautifully simply interior with some nice technological goodies and a beautiful body. In the end, we were worried about it's long term reliability as we tend to keep our SUVs a while.

The Mercedes was completely uninspiring. Body roll was excessive, it didn't like being pushed or driven hard and was generally boring. We didn't drive an ML 63, and I'm sure that's an entirely different animal.

It sounds like you've already driven a Cayenne Turbo, so do I really need to tell you how awesome it is?

In the end, we went with the F15 Msport. We are a BMW family and are really enjoying them all. My only regret was not waiting for a M Adaptive or DHP suspension.

Appreciate your response.

We tried a Range Rover Sport prior to our current X5 but like you, reliability concerns were at the forefront of our thoughts. As much as I'd like to give one a shot, I will never live it down if something inevitably happens.

A buddy of mine who has a GLE told me to steer clear for essentially the exact reason you noted.

Deep down I think it'll come down to the x5m and the Q7 but like you said...that Cayenne TT

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

okay wheel chair and your ability to ingress and egress from the car aside, these cars you listed indeed are the competitors of the X5.


But I'm not sure what you're looking to debate on a BMW forum. Most people here have made up their mind the X5 is the better car for their purpose. So if you list your key criteria out maybe some people will help you compare and contrast your options. Here's an example of a specific thread, this poster needed a 7 seater, so he specifically only compared SUVs with 7 seats with the primary criteria of having usable room in the 3rd row:

http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1303940

Sounds like your primary criteria would be your ability to ingress and egress, so you should probably start with a trimmed down list of what actually works for you first.

Otherwise, you're just going to get a bunch of noise from people giving you random reasons why they bought X5, with poverty being a major factor why they didn't go P-car or Land Rover or Bentyaga.

Thanks for the thoughtfulness to your response and the link to that thread .

I had a good look at it prior to posting as I didn't want "noise" for its own sake. My ability to get in and out of the cars listed is luckily independent and it will not be a dd for me.

My reason for posting was simply to illicit others' experiences and to gauge my own implicit bias. Bentayga aside, Cayenne and Range were on our short list last go around and the Cayenne certainly is this time. Your point is well taken.

[eggyacid]

Girlfriend has new XC90, looks really nice and everything is awesome except for noise. There are squeaks and wind noises everywhere. The seats already showed tons of wear on it after only 6 months. My CPO 2014 X5 seats are in better condition than hers.

Had an Audi Q7 before, would definitely buy another especially the new design.

ML350 or GLE drives like a mini van, too floaty and not much excitement.

I would suggest RangeRover Sports or the Q7 in my opinion

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by eggyacid

Girlfriend has new XC90, looks really nice and everything is awesome except for noise. There are squeaks and wind noises everywhere. The seats already showed tons of wear on it after only 6 months. My CPO 2014 X5 seats are in better condition than hers.

Had an Audi Q7 before, would definitely buy another especially the new design.

ML350 or GLE drives like a mini van, too floaty and not much excitement.

I would suggest RangeRover Sports or the Q7 in my opinion

Thanks for the insight.

[Flying Ace]

IMO, if it's overall driving experience, the Cayenne S or above beats everyone hands down. The X5 is a distant 2nd. All others can't be separated from one another in my book.

[Kzang]

Almost every car owner is going to praise their expensive purchase. It would make them look like an idiot if they didn't. With that said, all the choices above you've listed are good SUV's. Choose any of them and enjoy it for the next 3 years if leasing or not and get something else on the list next time.

[MN2///M]

You mentioned a possible second child in the future, not sure how long you plan on keeping this next SUV, but as one with two grown children, I can tell you that you will want 7 seats most likely in the future, so keep this in mind.

Our last two SUV's were both the GMC Acadia which were really nice, but not a $70k European SUV. Although the X5 is available in a 7 seat configuration, as are many others, the Acadia does this better in my opinion than nearly any other SUV out there. It does not meet the other criteria you are specifying.

We drove everything but the Porsche on your list and more just before we bought the current X5 we have. The Q7 is slightly larger than the X5, but we felt the mechanics and interior were superior in the X5. The Audi just felt like a dressed up VW to us.

I learned to drive in a Volvo 240, owned a 740 and two 850s and really wanted to buy the XC back in 2008 when we bought our first Acadia, but Volvos just are not the vehicles they once were. Although less expensive than the X5, we felt ultimately that the Volvo was just not as capable as the X5. For us, the Volvo XC90 ended up at the bottom of the list.

Range Rover I think has the best interior, very capable off road, but as others have mentioned, not the best reputation for reliability.

We also were underwhelmed with the Mercedes SUV's and reality is they were much more expensive by the time we optioned them out.

Dollar for dollar, the BMW is difficult to beat.

[double_j]

Seconding the Cayenne S as being worth a drive if you can find a decent used model. If you loved the Turbo, the S engine may be enough to sell you on it provided that the space works for you.

I went with the X5 because there were plenty lightly used 50i's available when I was shopping and it was easily the best value proposition in terms of warranty/features/price (but mainly because the V8 is addictive).

Volvo and Audi's are actually probably the better SUVs from a technical/practical standpoint but they're both pretty boring.

Range Rovers aren't bad in the V8 configuration but are pricey and I still can't get over their quality reputation (or lack thereof).

Cayenne Turbo is awesome but not as good of a value as the 50i. Cayenne S likely would have been a strong contender for me but there were no lightly used S models available when i was shopping.

[Flying Ace]

I particularly like the 2015+ facelifted Cayenne models for its styling. I'm just a sucker for the 4 point LED DRLs. IIRC, S models should come with those standard. Pre-facelifted GTS and Turbo also got those lights.

Overall the Cayenne drives like a small car.

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by MN2///M

You mentioned a possible second child in the future, not sure how long you plan on keeping this next SUV, but as one with two grown children, I can tell you that you will want 7 seats most likely in the future, so keep this in mind.

Our last two SUV's were both the GMC Acadia which were really nice, but not a $70k European SUV. Although the X5 is available in a 7 seat configuration, as are many others, the Acadia does this better in my opinion than nearly any other SUV out there. It does not meet the other criteria you are specifying.

We drove everything but the Porsche on your list and more just before we bought the current X5 we have. The Q7 is slightly larger than the X5, but we felt the mechanics and interior were superior in the X5. The Audi just felt like a dressed up VW to us.

I learned to drive in a Volvo 240, owned a 740 and two 850s and really wanted to buy the XC back in 2008 when we bought our first Acadia, but Volvos just are not the vehicles they once were. Although less expensive than the X5, we felt ultimately that the Volvo was just not as capable as the X5. For us, the Volvo XC90 ended up at the bottom of the list.

Range Rover I think has the best interior, very capable off road, but as others have mentioned, not the best reputation for reliability.

We also were underwhelmed with the Mercedes SUV's and reality is they were much more expensive by the time we optioned them out.

Dollar for dollar, the BMW is difficult to beat.

Appreciate the breakdown and especially your comments regarding the XC. Having never owned one I can only base my opinion from others' experience for good or bad.

Funny enough the Arcadia was on my initial list for the seven usable seats and we had one up in Banff a couple years ago which seemed capable. Like you said...not exactly a European Suv but I was pleasantly surprised with our bare bones model.

Certainly will keep your thoughts on a seven seater in mind given the potential of two little ones in the household.

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by double_j

Seconding the Cayenne S as being worth a drive if you can find a decent used model. If you loved the Turbo, the S engine may be enough to sell you on it provided that the space works for you.

I went with the X5 because there were plenty lightly used 50i's available when I was shopping and it was easily the best value proposition in terms of warranty/features/price (but mainly because the V8 is addictive).

Volvo and Audi's are actually probably the better SUVs from a technical/practical standpoint but they're both pretty boring.

Range Rovers aren't bad in the V8 configuration but are pricey and I still can't get over their quality reputation (or lack thereof).

Cayenne Turbo is awesome but not as good of a value as the 50i. Cayenne S likely would have been a strong contender for me but there were no lightly used S models available when i was shopping.

Buddy of mine has a new Cayenne S and swears by it. Certainly going to visit the Porsche dealership sometime this month and your advice on searching for a lightly used version is well taken.

Even though my wife likes to get on it(the gas pedal...not me unfortunately ha) it may take some convincing to get her into the TT given the practicality. Then again practical goes out the door when discussing some of these SUVs.

[Flying Ace]

Problem with the Porsche Cayenne (but with any of these SUVs) is depreciation. I highly recommend buying a used one that's still within warranty. And even if you buy a 2015 facelifted one, it's still at least in the high $50s....whereas the used 2015 F15 X5 are in the $40s. The Cayenne S and X5 50i all have the same pricing (I know no two Porsches are built exactly alike, and options can put ANY Porsche over $100k, but for the Cayenne, they're all reasonably under $90k builds, with most of them slotting in at the mid-$80s)

now you're looking at ownership time horizon and what part of the depreciation curve you're eating. B/c both the X5 and Cayenne will reach the same value at year 13 or so.

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Problem with the Porsche Cayenne (but with any of these SUVs) is depreciation. I highly recommend buying a used one that's still within warranty. And even if you buy a 2015 facelifted one, it's still at least in the high $50s....whereas the used 2015 F15 X5 are in the $40s. The Cayenne S and X5 50i all have the same pricing (I know no two Porsches are built exactly alike, and options can put ANY Porsche over $100k, but for the Cayenne, they're all reasonably under $90k builds, with most of them slotting in at the mid-$80s)

now you're looking at ownership time horizon and what part of the depreciation curve you're eating. B/c both the X5 and Cayenne will reach the same value at year 13 or so.

Totally agree...spec-ing out a new P car is daunting the first time around with the amount of options and how easily the price can get away from you. And like you said, a used one will take a bit of the bite out of the depreciation.

Just my personal opinion but I've always gone CPO just because unfortunately sh*t happens to me more than most ha. I'm curious to see my wife's reaction after driving them both in the same day. Hoping she narrows it down to the two on my mind.

[Flying Ace]

remember CPO ain't free. It's baked into the cost of the car. Depending on the state of the car, you can ask a dealer to remove CPO and sell at a cheaper price if they haven't put the work into it to make it a CPO. Then, you can shop extended warranty separately.

It never hurts to ask...this applies to all car brands.

[hyde]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=978408
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=980129

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

okay wheel chair and your ability to ingress and egress from the car aside, these cars you listed indeed are the competitors of the X5.


But I'm not sure what you're looking to debate on a BMW forum. Most people here have made up their mind the X5 is the better car for their purpose. So if you list your key criteria out maybe some people will help you compare and contrast your options. Here's an example of a specific thread, this poster needed a 7 seater, so he specifically only compared SUVs with 7 seats with the primary criteria of having usable room in the 3rd row:

http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1303940

Sounds like your primary criteria would be your ability to ingress and egress, so you should probably start with a trimmed down list of what actually works for you first.

Otherwise, you're just going to get a bunch of noise from people giving you random reasons why they bought X5, with poverty being a major factor why they didn't go P-car or Land Rover or Bentyaga.

Thanks, that's my thread which still hasn't done enough convincing that I should go with something other than X5. The way things are looking, I might just stay with X5 for 3 more years, unless something changes by end of my lease term.

[IndyJer]

In the unlikely chance you can find one, an X5 with dynamic handling package would be worth a look. Definitely a different experience than one without DHP, handles like a sports car...

Our other contender was the Range Rover, but we opted for a second X5 since there is a BMW dealer 5 miles from our house and the Range Rover dealer is in BFE on the other side of the city. 3rd world problems, right?

[BMWBIASED]

Originally Posted by IndyJer

In the unlikely chance you can find one, an X5 with dynamic handling package would be worth a look. Definitely a different experience than one without DHP, handles like a sports car...

Our other contender was the Range Rover, but we opted for a second X5 since there is a BMW dealer 5 miles from our house and the Range Rover dealer is in BFE on the other side of the city. 3rd world problems, right?

Haha...your last comment.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of dynamic handling. Will definitely look into it.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by IndyJer

In the unlikely chance you can find one, an X5 with dynamic handling package would be worth a look. Definitely a different experience than one without DHP, handles like a sports car...

Our other contender was the Range Rover, but we opted for a second X5 since there is a BMW dealer 5 miles from our house and the Range Rover dealer is in BFE on the other side of the city. 3rd world problems, right?

If any dealer had one in the tri-state area, I was willing to drive up/down to test drive one, I've never gotten a call back from any dealers about getting an X5 with DHP.. Sad but it's a $4000 gamble most people are not willing to play.

[kry226]

First post over in this section, but I'm in a similar boat and currently looking at the X5/Q7 type SUVs. Wife really wants a 3rd row, so models without that, aren't really in contention.

I currently own an X1 35i and live 300 yards from the nearest BMW dealer, and 400 yards from Audi... point being that I have the opportunity to check these two cars out extensively. In fact, over the Memorial Day weekend, we rented a nicely equipped, European version of the 2017 Q7 S-Line. It did have the 3.0 TDI which isn't available in the States.

I'm not trying to sway you either way, but as a BMW owner and fan, I was very impressed with the Q7. I tried my best to put it through it's paces...hauling cargo, hauling a full load of kids (all 7 seats full), and even trying to rip up the autobahn a little.

I had little trouble getting up to and maintaining 225 kph, traffic depending, and the Dynamic driving mode held the road firmly. In all modes, the car handled wonderfully and felt much smaller than it actually is.

What I liked:
- The leather. Despite being black (I hate black interiors), the leather didn't get as hot as you would expect and last weekend was quite warm by German standards (85+ degrees). Our version didn't have the ventilated seats. Wish it did.
- Seats were very comfortable and I particularly liked the ability to customize the heated seats. I have a bad back and I could essentially turn off the seat bottom heat but leave the heat on in the seat back. AWESOME.
- Room. There was plenty of room for everyone, and the third row is the best I've seen, room-wise. By contrast, I sat in an X5 third row yesterday in fact and was extremely disappointed. It seemed like an afterthought. May not be an issue in your world, but it's one of my wife's non-negotiables. Which has hurt because she's wanted an X5 for years. To be fair, the X5 is a good bit shorter than the Q7, IIRC.
- Tech. The virtual cockpit was awesome. It's obviously a gadget at Biblical proportions, but what it offered worked well. We really liked the ability to turn off the 8" screen in the middle of the dash (it drops away INTO the dash).
- Fit and finish was perfect.
- Again, I know it's not available in the U.S., but 3.0L diesel was virtually silent and mileage was awesome. We left Stuttgart and drove to Ulm, then Munich, did all our driving in Munich for the holiday weekend, and drove back to Stuttgart all on about 3/4 of a tank, at autobahn speeds I might add.
- Brakes were awesome and held their own for such a big car

What I didn't like:
- the HVAC seemed to work well, but it took a long time to cool the car down.
- the "screen" for the panoramic sunroof. Most cars have a solid sunroof screen, but the Q7's is translucent and thin and does little to keep the heat out. You can actually see the sunlight through the pores in the screen.
- Some of the tech "options". Some of the menus in the virtual cockpit didn't seem very well thought out. I asked myself a couple of times, "That's it?" I could say the same for the entertainment/Nav screen in the center dash. Navigating through the music folders on my USB flash drive wasn't easy with the virtual cockpit either. I had to transition back to the main center screen and navigate the folders from there.
- I liked the MMI, but the navigation searches and menus were not as intuitive as my X1's iDrive.
- In dynamic mode, the ZF transmission seemed a little clunky, particularly when needing to slow momentarily for traffic and then quickly speed back up (typical autobahn). It seems confused a little about which gear to pick.
- While I love heated seats, they didn't seem to get as warm as I would have liked, or what I'm used to. Same for the heated steering wheel.
- No DEF gauge. I checked the owner's manual, and the best I could find was a statement that said to add DEF when you get the message on the dash. I'm used to diesel pick-ups in the States, which always have gauges.
- the windshield. There must be something different with the new Q7's windshield. My windshield mounted Garmin (tells me where the speed cameras are ) could never get a strong signal through the windshield. This was pretty disappointing and unexpected. Installed back into my X1 and the signal has full bars, so not a malfunction of the Garmin.

I guess that's about it. We really liked the Q7 and it's definitely on our short list. Sorry this is so wordy, but I hope this helps you out with your decision, and feel free to ask any questions. Good luck.