S63TU engine seized - rebuid, replace, or relinquish?

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Ask them who they are. They know why you want to know and they should not have a problem with you querying them. I would expect they should be more than willing to have their customers vouch for them.

I know what you mean, but I guess from RK's perspective there may be an issue with releasing previous customers' info. If they willingly and easily provided this info then that may lead me to be concerned with their overall business practices/integrity.

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Its use is rare, I know of only of a handful of others that use it. Most oil additives are B.S. and the stigma that surrounds it muddies the waters when something that works is found. I only switched to 5-40 & Mos2 after reading about so many engine failures years ago and wanted to protect my engine as much as possible. Anecdotal yes but something must be said of engines that are now 11 years old, pushing 5400lbs, closing in on 200,000 miles, and still cranking out 600+ hp with sub 3.6 0-60 times and mid 11's in the 1/4.

I run Certec once every 30-40k miles and 2 cans of Mos2 with every 5000 mile oil change (do not run them both at the same time). I run LM 5-40 oil also but any quality 5-40 will do.

I can only give you information from my experience and the few others I know that run Mos2 on this platform. The N63/S63 & TU variant engines are identical when it comes to what we are discussing here - Oil pumps, bearings, rods. BMW does not recommend any additives however it is important to keep in mind BMW is not your friend when it comes to oil & its recommendations. All oil recommendations serve CARB regulations & profit first, reliability & drive train life is a distant second.

A quick call to your dealer to schedule a transmission oil change will confirm how much BMW has your interests in mind. You will be told it is "Lifetime" and never needs to be changed, directly going against what ZF, the maker of your transmission, recommends. I think of BMW as a company with brilliant engineers headed by a diabolical management/marketing team. (Monthly fees for heated seats anyone?)

What I recommend is to look at the data and read up on MoS2, there is some solid science behind it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide

I would also change to a 5-40 weight oil and look into getting higher octane, here is a link to a map of E85 in Oz: https://www.glpautogas.info/en/ethan...australia.html Mix in 4 gallons with each fill-up. If you monitor your air/fuel ratios, you can play around with finding the perfect mix for your tune but 4 gallons per tank is a great starting point . It boosts performance (you will notice a bump in HP due to the timing increase) while at the same time adding protection against pre-ignition. It is worth the hassle to mix in.

I have a RK Stock rebuild, run 0-50 Liqui Moly in the green jug and MoS2 and the engine has been solidly reliable. I havent chnaged driving habbits much if any and I have seen the fuel economy improve.

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

An RK stock rebuild (with only rod bearings upgraded) will cost slightly more than:
- The flooded junkyard engine with 60Kish KMs
- A wreck junkyard engine with 90K+ KMs with internal components upgraded.

Upgrading the rods on the RK engine will push the budget more than I am willing.

RK confirms the LB is direct drop in based on my VIN, but obviously I will need to use existing manifolds, turbos, etc. No LH or RH compatibility issues mentioned.

I figure that the RK build (even with mainly stock components) is likely to be of a superior quality than any "rebuild" I can get here, since this is RK's business.

I was just about sold on the RK option but the only thing which has me hesitant at the moment is that there is only ability to pay via wire transfer, no Paypal or credit card. I understand their concern (fraud, etc), and not trying to throw shade on anyone, but it has me spooked from my perspective, as practically I have very little recourse if for whatever reason the engine doesn't turn up (although the shipping will ensure it).

And reading some of the negative reviews on these boards (of which there aren't many) is not helping either. I may need to dwell on this one a bit more.

I get the hesitance to wire money in large sums especially for car parts, lol. I was in the early customer crowd and absolutely had those feelings of doubt. That said they took great care of me and my car and still own it to this day, 3 years later, and we have been on numerous road trips and recently took it to Bimmer Invasion in Orlando. The indy shop I go to, Midnite Tuning inc. out of Largo, Fl USA, does a lot of business with RK now.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

I get the hesitance to wire money in large sums especially for car parts, lol. I was in the early customer crowd and absolutely had those feelings of doubt. That said they took great care of me and my car and still own it to this day, 3 years later, and we have been on numerous road trips and recently took it to Bimmer Invasion in Orlando. The indy shop I go to, Midnite Tuning inc. out of Largo, Fl USA, does a lot of business with RK now.

Thank you, this is valuable insight.

Latest update is - spoke to my mechanic, they are still in the process of stripping down the engine and said to hold off on the RK motor for the moment. Given the engine needs to be stripped down to accommodate the engine replacement anyway, they will check to see whether the block is rebuildable, and run a cost/time/quality analysis of a rebuild vs buying an RK rebuilt long block.

I was keen to make a definitive decision sooner rather than later (have been without the car for about 4 months now) but I guess I need to be more patient. Realistically, I am thinking one way or another I won't have the car back for at least another 2-3 months.

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Thank you, this is valuable insight.

Latest update is - spoke to my mechanic, they are still in the process of stripping down the engine and said to hold off on the RK motor for the moment. Given the engine needs to be stripped down to accommodate the engine replacement anyway, they will check to see whether the block is rebuildable, and run a cost/time/quality analysis of a rebuild vs buying an RK rebuilt long block.

I was keen to make a definitive decision sooner rather than later (have been without the car for about 4 months now) but I guess I need to be more patient. Realistically, I am thinking one way or another I won't have the car back for at least another 2-3 months.

I waited about 4 or 5 months before I pulled the trigger on sending my car to RK. I absolutely appreciate the slow and deliberate approach as getting sucker punched can really stir the flight or fight reactions in a wild way.

These engines make fantastic power plus BMW M curb appeal is nothing to sneeze at. Terribly sorry to hear that you have to go through this but your patience will benefit you greatly down the road.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

I waited about 4 or 5 months before I pulled the trigger on sending my car to RK. I absolutely appreciate the slow and deliberate approach as getting sucker punched can really stir the flight or fight reactions in a wild way.

These engines make fantastic power plus BMW M curb appeal is nothing to sneeze at. Terribly sorry to hear that you have to go through this but your patience will benefit you greatly down the road.

Appreciate the sympathy and kind words. But I am under no illusion as to being at least partly responsible for this situation. I originally got the car because I considered myself a "car enthusiast", but never bothered to learn about oil changes, observe proper warm-up, and when the warranty expired I thought if the car has made it this far - then it can handle a tune! Little did I know that would seal its fate.

Long and painful lesson learnt, and completely with you on the M appeal, I guess this is why we get these cars. Replacing this car with a non-M car is still a very real possibility, but I just know that every time I drive past a BMW M it will just leave me yearning. But here's to hoping for positive developments in the near future.

[mcanzio]

Sorry about your engine issues. I have the stage 2 bootmod tune on my F85 and you have to make sure you are using high quality oil (I use Motul Competition oil) every 5k. It's a bit pricey but worth it. You also need to change the spark plugs every 4-5k as well. I know it may seem like overkill, but when you are adding an additional 150hp+ it's more wear and tear on the engine. Another huge factor that has already been mentioned is letting your engine oil heat up before getting on it. I know it's a pain and takes at least 10+ minutes or more to heat up, it's part of keeping your engine healthy.

I would also check out Pure Performance in Texas. They do complete engine rebuilds and are a solid company.

Their site is kindy wonky and doesn't always work. But you can check out their instagram page @pure_performance_tx

It's another similar option to RK Autowerks. Cheers!

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Appreciate the sympathy and kind words. But I am under no illusion as to being at least partly responsible for this situation. I originally got the car because I considered myself a "car enthusiast", but never bothered to learn about oil changes, observe proper warm-up, and when the warranty expired I thought if the car has made it this far - then it can handle a tune! Little did I know that would seal its fate.

Knowing about maintenance is not a requirement about been a car enthusiast. I know car nuts that have nice collections and drive them but, cant change a fuse, even if their life depended on it.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Chilled

Knowing about maintenance is not a requirement about been a car enthusiast. I know car nuts that have nice collections and drive them but, cant change a fuse, even if their life depended on it.

Seems that BMW and other manufacturers are relying on non-mechanically minded enthusiasts to turn cars over every few years.

Watching this video made my head spin.

The only "work" I ever did to a car was changing the air intake on a Suzuki Swift Sport to a K&N CAI (this was back in the Fast & Furious days) and I was pretty impressed with myself.

Granted, this vid is a Stage 3 build but I would imagine the process is the same for a stock rebuild, so I can now understand why BMW and most indies just recommend engine replacement instead of rebuild.

[TinCanSailor]

A lot of work and specialty parts go into a Stage3 build. Seems there is no shortage of M owners looking to build the next 1000HP+ car these days. I am glad we have folks out there willing to endeavor into that territory as it does help raise the level of knowledge even amongst the daily driver enthusiasts. Those sorts of builds have helped me focus on maintenance and parts that will help the car live a longer and more reliable life. A person really should have to know how to work on their car in order to properly enjoy it but being involved can help identify things before they escalate or help prevent repair scams.

Everyone in my household takes part in general maintenance, it is not always easy but it has been fun sharing the experience with my wife, daughter and son.

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Seems that BMW and other manufacturers are relying on non-mechanically minded enthusiasts to turn cars over every few years.

Watching this video made my head spin.

The only "work" I ever did to a car was changing the air intake on a Suzuki Swift Sport to a K&N CAI (this was back in the Fast & Furious days) and I was pretty impressed with myself.

Granted, this vid is a Stage 3 build but I would imagine the process is the same for a stock rebuild, so I can now understand why BMW and most indies just recommend engine replacement instead of rebuild.

Ahh yes, those dark "6" fart cannon on ek's" days or the getting raped by neon's post 2 fast, 2 furious.


Here the slower version, Raza goes abit into what they are actually putting in.

[I Luv BMW]

I actually watched that one as well. Hearing Raza talk gave me confidence in his product. When the time comes, and I can get over the wire money transfer hurdle, I will be ready to pull the trigger.

[I Luv BMW]

Latest update: Engine has been totally stripped down and all parts will be sent off to a machinist to see what might be possible. Initial thinking is that the block can be rebored and fitted with oversized rods and pistons, but will need to wait to hear back.

The photos show:
- Damage to main bearings
- Scoring of cylinder walls
- Crankshaft scuffing
- Rods and bearing mostly destroyed

At this stage, mechanic is recommending a rebuild if possible, on a cost vs benefit analysis against a junkyard replacement.

The mechanic is now inspecting all other components which may be replaced while the engine is out.

Will hopefully have an update this week.

[Chilled]

Ouch, thoughts and prayers go out to your machinist and your wallet. Based on the #4 main, start exploring plan B options for block and crank.

If he manages to recover that, please me know he is.

[I Luv BMW]

All over, red over you think? If they can be recovered, how much would you expect ballpark?

Seems this might all become a fruitless exercise so maybe junkyard engine is the only option now.

[Chilled]

Lets hope the photos are making things look worse than they are. If you mechanic thinks is salvageable and your machinist agrees. Without measuring things out, vs BMW spec and main bearing options. It hard to say.

I don't want to set you on the wrong expensive path here.

[I Luv BMW]

No worries, and appreciate your input nonetheless. The mechanic seems to think that a rebuild, assuming it is possible, will work out a similar cost of a junkyard engine ($20K+). This doesn't seem completely unreasonable given PPM racing is was selling that stroker kit for about $15K (they never replied). So mechanic is suggesting the rebuilt would be worthwhile, and this will give me the option of driving the car longer term or selling it. Using the junkyard engine will mean selling it immediately.

They are working up a full parts list so will hopefully hear something soon. Real sick and tired of this now.

[Chilled]

Honestly, not to cry wolf. I would start thinking of plan B.

That #4 main bearing(the one without an actual bearing, white shim looking things), looks like it went into full free spin mode. You can see how it gouged into the block and out the other side. Top left of the bearing there is a very square(factory machined) bearing holder groove, look at the bottom right. The main cap's bearing dug into the saddle, gouged out it's own track, free spun and came out top right.

[I Luv BMW]

Yep, I can see that now. Geez. Mechanic says this was likely caused by prolonged low/bad oil conditions.

So long, F86 X6M!

[I Luv BMW]

Looking into Plan C options. Used block from seller in Germany. Approx $6.5K delivered. Block itself is from a car with 70K KM. The seller sent me 2 videos of the block, which I have uploaded to Youtube.

How does it look? I would obviously need to supply the crankshaft, cams, rods, pistons e.g., everything else.

https://youtube.com/shorts/_LhxhLb2rVg

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by I Luv BMW

Looking into Plan C options. Used block from seller in Germany. Approx $6.5K delivered. Block itself is from a car with 70K KM. The seller sent me 2 videos of the block, which I have uploaded to Youtube.

How does it look? I would obviously need to supply the crankshaft, cams, rods, pistons e.g., everything else.

https://youtube.com/shorts/_LhxhLb2rVg

Kinda hard to tell with the potato-ness, and the lighting. The bores look good, nice and even. Some rifling marks, but that just looks like oxidisation /dried up oil/dirt.

The slight concerning for me, would be the main caps 2 and 4. Near the oil line(the hole), there seems to be either some dirt/oxidisation or actual wear on the block. If it is wear, then depending on how bad it is, could need fixing.

Show these to your mechanic/machinist, see what they say. If they can/its possible to hone these mains.


Also, if you going with a just a diff block, double check your head situation. You mechanic took some good photos. On the cams, you can see some wear lines, they look ok-ish, just could use a slight polish. The question I would have is, how are camshaft journals/caps? These don't have the sacrificial bearings like the rods/crank. Would want to double check their state, as you cant machine cams/caps.


From an T&M POV, a full LB seems to make more sense. Maybe the local junkyard is not such a bad option. Just a quick look over(check the bearings, put in acl/king/etc) and drop in. No machining, special order parts.

[I Luv BMW]

Originally Posted by Chilled

From an T&M POV, a full LB seems to make more sense. Maybe the local junkyard is not such a bad option. Just a quick look over(check the bearings, put in acl/king/etc) and drop in. No machining, special order parts.

Thanks for your comment.

This is resonating more and more as time continues to pass and patience wears thin.

My thinking is that if it looks ok from a check then I will upgrade some of the internals with intention of driving the car long term. If it does not look that great, then just use the engine as is and flip it.

Perhaps upgrade both the rod bearings and the rods?

Correct me if wrong, but my understanding is that:
- The rod bearings can be replaced through just the bottom end (i.e., without pulling the block apart)
- The rods can only be replaced through the top end (i.e., need to pull apart the block).