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      05-19-2017, 08:30 PM   #89
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How is the transmission on Volvo? I heard that was one of the issues with XC90. And lack of line of sight navigation screen would probably bother me, that tall screen instead of the usual horizontal display.

Does XC90 have HUD?
XC 90 displays a full map in the main display, a smaller, more localized map between the tachometer and speedometer, and turn by turn directions in the HUD. I really like the nav set up.
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      05-19-2017, 08:33 PM   #90
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I was considering the XC90 (PHEV version) too. On the used market, they got killed on depreciation, you can get one <20k miles for <$55k (Inscription trim too if you wait for one).

I just heard they had a lot of initial defects from this launch model. So today my replacement for my X5 are:


1. X5 40e
2. '15 Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid
3. VW Atlas
4. Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
5. '15 GL, whatever the last facelifted one that's not currently for sale as a new car.
I think they had plenty of problems in the first model year, but everything has been addressed and the 2017s have generally been very reliable. 2018s will be out in a few weeks.

I think you hear a lot of the worst experiences on forums and a smaller percentage from the majority of owners that have had no problems at all. Mine has been perfect so far.
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      05-20-2017, 12:32 AM   #91
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If you are looking for something different how about a Dodge Durango srt? They come out at the end of this year rumored to be around 70k. Basically a stretched cherokee chasis, 6 seater, full leather including dash, alcantara headliner, brembos, 20's, 6.beast hemi, awd, touch screen, variable shocks. I never ever thought I would go American (have only ever owned BMW's), but that is my plan. Have been through 4 X5's and I just can't handle the F15's at all. I'm thinking the srt durango will be a perfect no f*cks given suv that can handle family life without me having to stress over it. Go to the beach, father-in-laws farm, camping, etc. Plus rumored 4ish to 60 and suspension dynamics supposedly tuned at VIR. If nothing else it will have character.

I don't think I can justify 70k for Durango. I am sure it's amazing but if you want versatility you can easily spend half of that and still be able to do most of those things, just without the appearance of luxury. Don't get me wrong, I actually had a long adjustment period after I moved from Jeep to X5 over 6 yrs ago. Most people don't realize how indirect X5 feels when it comes to acceleration and steering no matter how sporty you make it, it just feels disconnected. Sure, Chrysler/now-Fiat SUVs are not as comfortable or snappy, but that low end torque and the low gear are amazing toys to have, not to mention crazy turning radius. I don't know how much of those characteristics are retained in recent models, but I still have a soft spot for Jeep/Dodge.
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      05-20-2017, 12:41 AM   #92
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I hear you. I have actually been looking at the RT version as fully maxed it is just under 50 new. Has the medium sized hemi, stock lowering, 20's, and can seat 7 if you go for the bench instead of captain chairs.

I was about to do it then read about the srt. Previous X5 was e70 X5M modded so to go to a f15 was rubbish. E70's have such a better feel to them than the f15. The disconnect is killing me on the f15.
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      05-20-2017, 12:45 AM   #93
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XC 90 displays a full map in the main display, a smaller, more localized map between the tachometer and speedometer, and turn by turn directions in the HUD. I really like the nav set up.

How good is the acceleration?
Also that nice SUV is whole 3 inches wider than X5 and I thought X5 was wide. XC90 is widest in its class, yet front and rear shoulder rooms are narrower than X5. Where did all that width go? It has the narrowest shoulder room on all rows in its class.
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      05-21-2017, 08:59 PM   #94
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XC90.

Also, how is the engine noise? I see that it's much noisier from the outside compared to X5 (possibly due to smaller engine?) do you hear it as much inside?


PS: In reference to Audi, I ran some numbers based on MSRP and expected 6% reduction to reach invoice price, the lease pricing on Q7 is crazy, even if you manage to get it at invoice price, most people are considering 2.0 instead of 3.0, I don't think I can stand that huge vehicle with 3.0.
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      05-22-2017, 02:35 PM   #95
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How good is the acceleration?
Also that nice SUV is whole 3 inches wider than X5 and I thought X5 was wide. XC90 is widest in its class, yet front and rear shoulder rooms are narrower than X5. Where did all that width go? It has the narrowest shoulder room on all rows in its class.
Acceleration is fine. With the Polestar tune, it feels approx. the same as my untuned X5 35i (high 5 seconds 0 to 60). Maybe the Volvo is slightly quicker, but it's close enough that it makes no real difference. The Volvo with the Polestar tune is rated 30hp / 30lb/ft more than the BMW, and is a couple of hundred lbs lighter, so it should theoretically be faster, but the power and torque numbers for the BMW are likely underrated, so it makes sense to me they feel similar.

Responsiveness in traffic and on the highway is good in the Volvo - perhaps slightly more responsive than the X5. The Polestar tune includes revised gearbox mapping, and it definitely feels a little more aggressive than the X5, so the responsiveness may be more down the the gearbox than the engine.

I'm sure you're right about the shoulder room numbers, but I don't think it feels any wider or narrower. The interior of the Volvo is significantly nicer than the X5, so maybe the more airy, lighter feeling masks less shoulder room.
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      05-22-2017, 02:39 PM   #96
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Also, how is the engine noise? I see that it's much noisier from the outside compared to X5 (possibly due to smaller engine?) do you hear it as much inside?
Engine noise levels are OK. I think overall interior noise is similar between the two cars.

Do not by an XC 90 and expect the engine / exhaust to sound aggressive or pleasant or anything else. With the possible exception of the faint whine of the supercharger winding up, which I actually enjoy, the noises coming out of the engine are not going to be the reason you buy this car. The 6 and 8 cylinder X5s sound great at start up. The Volvo, not so much.
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      07-22-2017, 01:33 PM   #97
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I was on a similar place a while ago. Needed a much better third row than what our X5 had. Ultimately turned in my 4 year old E70 diesel and went for a new Land Rover Discovery and so far we are loving it. Does it drive like a BMW? No. But it drives nice, is extremely comfortable, interiors and tech leave BMW way behind and it will take you anywhere, which is waking up my interest for adventuring off the beaten path in a car again.

Still a BMW junkie and I am lucky enough to have a 1M for when I need to be reminded of what it feels to drive a proper BMW, but I would fully recommend checking the LR Discovery.
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      08-12-2017, 11:48 PM   #98
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I was on a similar place a while ago. Needed a much better third row than what our X5 had. Ultimately turned in my 4 year old E70 diesel and went for a new Land Rover Discovery and so far we are loving it. Does it drive like a BMW? No. But it drives nice, is extremely comfortable, interiors and tech leave BMW way behind and it will take you anywhere, which is waking up my interest for adventuring off the beaten path in a car again.

Still a BMW junkie and I am lucky enough to have a 1M for when I need to be reminded of what it feels to drive a proper BMW, but I would fully recommend checking the LR Discovery.
Great choice, checked it today, test drove one, including sales off-road demonstration. I never thought I'd be in a vehicle tilted so much that I feel like if I moved further to the right, I would cause it to tilt and tumble over. Amazing, just amazing. Drives extremely solid, you sit up high, I could almost see the roof of other cars. I felt like going from SUV to Sedan when I went back to my X5 (I sit very low and laid back).

Strangely, lease pricing is off the chart. $65k MSRP, we were quoted $1040/mo on 36mo with 1st month + bank fees up front. What is LR thinking? He said there are no deals/discounts either. No matter what it looks like from outside, it's an amazing feeling vehicle. Congratulations, enjoy.

Oh, and it won't fit in my garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerEast View Post
Engine noise levels are OK. I think overall interior noise is similar between the two cars.

Do not by an XC 90 and expect the engine / exhaust to sound aggressive or pleasant or anything else. With the possible exception of the faint whine of the supercharger winding up, which I actually enjoy, the noises coming out of the engine are not going to be the reason you buy this car. The 6 and 8 cylinder X5s sound great at start up. The Volvo, not so much.
I am going to copy and paste my post from another thread here:


Test drove VW Atlas today, definitely drives like a truck and not an SUV, I thought I was in a Navigator minus the chrome. Low end torque is fine with this engine but noise and vibrations definitely need to be dampened. Quality is OK where you look, screen is nice, cockpit, etc is similar to what you would get from Audi and it is super spacious, especially with captains seats for 2nd row.

Lots of plastic for sure, but it's expected.

I expected much worse. The MSRP is ok, but the dealer gave me a crazily marked up lease pricing. Who would pay $700's for $53k VW? I said what's up with this, he said these are the prices, I thought it was a residual issue, not the case whopping %63! I asked if there were any discounts he would apply down the line, he said nothing. No incentives, no rebates, and that this is first year model and they won't offer anything.. Sounded a bit odd, I might try a different dealer.

So I stepped out and crossed the street and test drove XC90, it felt so much better but more cramped and much more obstructed visibility on the back, and surprisingly noisier than Atlas! Noise goes down considerably on XC90 when on 3rd gears and above. There is still a lot to like, especially very aggressive pricing and the incentives for BMW/Audi/MB owners, I think they call it Conquest Incentive. $2500 to $3500, plus Costco club deal. Much much better pricing MSRP $58k MSRP in mid $600's and $62k MSRP for $700. Not bad. Although, one negative is lack of Red R-Design XC90. Such a beautiful car but so limited.

Test drove few other vehicles today, and I can easily say that Q7 is the only true competitor to X5 at the moment (if you want 3rd row), if 3rd row is not an issue, there are plenty to choose from. Sadly Audi dealer wasn't willing to apply any kind of discounts to the Q7, non at all. He said if I want discount, I should get another X5, BMW marks up $10k and drops $7k and makes it look like a deal. He gave me a $750 discount on $64750 MSRP for $900/mo lease pricing. It does sound good considering current Audi lease MF/RV's but still high.
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      08-13-2017, 04:11 AM   #99
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I would say the GL but since that doesn't fit in your garage I would probably go with an Escalade/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon. They are extremely spacious and have most features our BMW's or MB and Audi have. If performance is an issue there's definitely plenty that can be done to those cars. My cousin had an 07 Avalanche which is basically same as Tahoe but with a bed and that thing was a beast.
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      08-13-2017, 11:51 AM   #100
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I love the look of the Durango especially for the price point. The 5.7 Hemi is no slouch and plenty of tuning options. I was going to lease one before I ended up with the X5 cuz I wanted a bit more luxury and pedigree and I just am
A sucker for German engineering. But fully agree the Durango SRT is not worth the price tag they're gonna ask for it but I feel The same about the Jeep SRT although I hate fiat/Chrysler financing. They're just a terrible company. Can get a much better deal from dodge at the same price point.
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      08-13-2017, 04:35 PM   #101
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If I need that much room it's Chevy Suburban or Yukon time.
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      08-13-2017, 05:01 PM   #102
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I would say the GL but since that doesn't fit in your garage I would probably go with an Escalade/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon. They are extremely spacious and have most features our BMW's or MB and Audi have. If performance is an issue there's definitely plenty that can be done to those cars. My cousin had an 07 Avalanche which is basically same as Tahoe but with a bed and that thing was a beast.

If GLS doesn't fit, Escalate or any one of those won't fit either.
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      08-13-2017, 05:29 PM   #103
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Next gen G wagon?
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      08-13-2017, 09:29 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyde View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabawi91 View Post
I would say the GL but since that doesn't fit in your garage I would probably go with an Escalade/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon. They are extremely spacious and have most features our BMW's or MB and Audi have. If performance is an issue there's definitely plenty that can be done to those cars. My cousin had an 07 Avalanche which is basically same as Tahoe but with a bed and that thing was a beast.

If GLS doesn't fit, Escalate or any one of those won't fit either.
You're probably right but worth checking the dimensions compared to the GLS just to confirm
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      08-14-2017, 02:45 PM   #105
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posted this in another thread and it was suggested that I add it here as well:

I started off looking for alternatives to the X5, hoping for something new and exciting. I looked at the XC90, along with Q7 and the new RR Disco. I didn't want to end up with an identical vehicle in my garage after spending $$$. (Need a 7 seater)

Here are my impressions:

Q7 - added to the mix because of high praise and positive reviews. In my opinion the ride was nice and smooth, power delivery decent although did not feel as exciting as my 35i (not to even mention the 50i which I also tested). Felt a little like driving a minivan. I also could not get over the exterior looks which i'm sure I could get used it, but that's not how I like to buy my cars. I was also not as impressed with the interior tech/design as many of the car reviewers. Didn't like the vent like slits across the entire dashboard and the built in touchpad felt like it came from 20 year old laptop. The virtual cockpit was nice but overall the GUI didn't feel as refined as the BMW one.

RR Disco - overall probably my favourite in terms of look and feel. Not as exciting to drive as the X5 but everything else made up for it. If not for the dismal reliability rating I probably would've ended up with the Disco. After spending a few hours in RR Disco forums to get a better sense of what the ownership experience could/would look like I unfortunately had to cross if off the list.

XC90 - liked the look (maybe because it looks so similar to the X5). The interior was more elegant and upscale than the X5. The tech was nice but the look and feel not as polished as the BMW. Took the T6 for a drive and as someone above has already mentioned, he power delivery was decent and felt comparable to my 35i but the engine sounded like it was working harder than I expected it to. Wanted to take the T8 for a spin but the manager had taken it home for the day despite me giving the dealer a heads up that I would be coming in at some point during the week for a test drive.

X5 - without a clear winner in the above comparison I popped by my BMW dealer to see if I could take a 2017 50i and 35d for a spin. Although not necessarily winning in any particular area, the X5 is an overall better, more complete package. I LOVED the 50i power, but I compromised on the 35d which feels more powerful than my 35i. To further differentiate it from my then current 2014 space grey 35i I went for a Saphire Black with black rims and black interior. Along with a few tech upgrades (digital gauges, touch screen, soft close doors, etc) the new colour and diesel engine make it like a different vehicle.
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      08-14-2017, 06:16 PM   #106
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I test drove the xc90, was on the edge about the disco and finally settled for a 7 seater x5 50i. The GL was too big. If making the call, please sit in the back yourself and see if its that much of a difference. The xc90 felt as cramped as the x5 for me.
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      09-08-2017, 09:18 PM   #107
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I am cross posting this here,

I have to check X7 section to see what people thought of it, but the concept looks hideous.
https://www.bmwusa.com/concept-vehicles/x7.html
Maybe it needs time to grow on us....

Two things can happen.
New X5 will be amazing, so old X5 price will drop like a rock, we can then grab some great deals, making us stay with BMW 3 more years despite outdated tech/interior/penny pinching, nickle and diming packaging.

New X5 will not be amazing, F15 demand will be there, we won't get a good deal, we'll go grab a Q7 with their idiotic decision of leaving Auto-Hold out of the nice car - it bugs me more than it should but it's not there - or we'll have to gamble with XC90 an it's heavily tech dependent operation and it's quirks.

Would I stay with X5? If I get a crazy deal on an msport, with better rims thrown in, air suspension, 3rd row and napa leather with 15% off MSRP, I might, just might stay with X5.. But it's still a tough VERY TOUGH call for me.

PS: Nothing drives like BMW. Not counting Porsche, it's vastly overpriced, so why not grab an X5 5.0 instead if 3rd row is not an issue.
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      09-08-2017, 10:27 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by hyde View Post
I am cross posting this here,

I have to check X7 section to see what people thought of it, but the concept looks hideous.
https://www.bmwusa.com/concept-vehicles/x7.html
Maybe it needs time to grow on us....

Two things can happen.
New X5 will be amazing, so old X5 price will drop like a rock, we can then grab some great deals, making us stay with BMW 3 more years despite outdated tech/interior/penny pinching, nickle and diming packaging.

New X5 will not be amazing, F15 demand will be there, we won't get a good deal, we'll go grab a Q7 with their idiotic decision of leaving Auto-Hold out of the nice car - it bugs me more than it should but it's not there - or we'll have to gamble with XC90 an it's heavily tech dependent operation and it's quirks.

Would I stay with X5? If I get a crazy deal on an msport, with better rims thrown in, air suspension, 3rd row and napa leather with 15% off MSRP, I might, just might stay with X5.. But it's still a tough VERY TOUGH call for me.

PS: Nothing drives like BMW. Not counting Porsche, it's vastly overpriced, so why not grab an X5 5.0 instead if 3rd row is not an issue.
So how much discount your are getting for MY18 X5?

Or you are still thinking about pinging dealers about it?
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      09-09-2017, 03:09 PM   #109
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So how much discount your are getting for MY18 X5?

Or you are still thinking about pinging dealers about it?

I will give it one last shot to see what we get. So far I will expect 10% below MSRP and I am waiting for Sept lease numbers.

Someone posted an unreal number in another thread... Still waiting for him to reply.
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      09-09-2017, 03:25 PM   #110
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I will give it one last shot to see what we get. So far I will expect 10% below MSRP and I am waiting for Sept lease numbers.

Someone posted an unreal number in another thread... Still waiting for him to reply.
Let me know which dealer I also need to order one. Still haven't decided between 40e and x35i. By the time this lease will be over in 2020, will have 2nd year new X5 or X7 to choose from.

I posted the residual for 40e. It's 59%. MF should be base .00151.
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