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      03-15-2015, 08:13 AM   #23
ben796
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BMW X5 xDrive40e video

My local dealer has uploaded a great video on the all new BMW X5 xDrive40e.

http://www.knightsbmw.com/#!The-alln...f2458597c7c2ca
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      03-15-2015, 09:21 AM   #24
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For all who commented on MPG - MPGe is just a tool to allow comparison to a gas-only car. It will depend on what % you drive on electric-only vs gas-electric split.

All plug-in hybrids if this type have MPGe ratings (most overly optimistic) that are calculated per the same % of driving type. Larger all-electric range usually means larger MPGe, etc.

So, for the X5 with 19 miles all-electric range (AER) your MPGe depends on driving style very greatly. The X5 is a heavy vehicle, probably heavier with electric motor/battery/charging system. At least they had the good sense to combine it with the 2.0L turbo 4-cyl, which is already very light.

As for the i8 actual MPG from users, anyone who watched Top Gear's review of it saw the same - when you drive it aggressively cross-country, you are using it in the least electric-only way (even accounting for brake energy regeneration). It should be no surprise the MPG ends up low in its range.

If you have an i8 (congrats by the way ) I'd be interested in hearing about how you use the car (weekends/daily commute/city/suburbs etc).
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      03-15-2015, 09:44 AM   #25
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Why no X6 e40i?
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      03-15-2015, 10:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floriank View Post
I am sure the X5 will be a sportier drive but, in comparison with the T8, it seems just sooo last century.

BMW has sadly missed the opportunity to add that little bit of extra magic to this, their first 'core brand' plug-in hybrid but instead have just added a battery to a standard X5.

The T8 however coincides with a complete refresh of the XC90 and, in my opinion just makes the X5 look old, dated and rather boring.

And, losing the 7 seat capability in the 40e will shift a whole lot of buyers toward the Swede anyway.

This just shows, bolting a battery onto a legacy vehicle not designed for this purpose means that you'll end up having to make too many space compromises.

The 40e probably drives a little more dynamic compared to the T8 but as for the rest - worlds apart! The Beemer has now been in development for years but the final release doesn't seem to show any improvements on what was first teased so many car shows ago - looks like most of BMW's engineers were focused on developing the new 2-Series.

I was waiting for the official details on this one before deciding what to buy next but, I'm afraid, after choosing BMW for my last 5 vehicles it's a case of too little too late.

Now, where's my nearest Volvo dealership....
Yeah, the lack of ground up design really shows. Look at the i3 and i8...they are best in class in terms of packaging, layout, etc.

The X5, on the other hand, is designed to accept a 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder engine. That loooong six kills packaging when the shorter 4 cylinder is used. In addition, the BMW has a conventional AWD system, the boost coming from a motor connected to the transmission.

The Volvo, on the other hand, sacrifices a V8 and V6 option, as well as a conventional AWD system (with hybrid, as the non-hybrid versions use a conventional system) for an electric only drive at the rear wheels. Combined with a 4-cylinder only power train, and you have the ability to have more cargo space and more 3rd row space than in an X5....even with the hybrid.

The Volvo trounces the performance of the BMW as well. a full 80 HP more (395 bhp vs 313; the volvo's petrol engine makes more than the BMW's total system output, telling how it will drive when the batteries are depleted). A full second faster to 60 (5.9 vs. 6.9). More electric range (25 miles vs. 16) and lower emissions (60 g/km for the volvo vs. 77 for the BMW).

I'm by no means knocking the X5 as a vehicle. I love it. You can get it in V8 and M forms. It's a fabulous vehicle. But as far as plug in hybrids go, the XC90 has it covered by a mile.
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      03-15-2015, 10:24 AM   #27
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Why no X6 e40i?
Because the costs to federalize and certify a power train on a niche vehicle likely do not make business sense.
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      03-15-2015, 10:35 AM   #28
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I find it hard to believe these strained 4-pots (313bhp form 2 liters?) will prove durable. Not to mention the acoustics they'll be producing

A big car like the x5 (or the mentioned xc90) should have a proper drivetrain. Less stressed for longer hassle-free life. To me, buying a kiosk on wheels with anything less than 6 cylinders is like making love with 3 rubbers on. You get the extra safety, but would you really sacrifice the rest?

Forget the hybrid, get a 3.0 liter diesel.
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      03-15-2015, 11:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matowi
I find it hard to believe these strained 4-pots (313bhp form 2 liters?) will prove durable. Not to mention the acoustics they'll be producing

A big car like the x5 (or the mentioned xc90) should have a proper drivetrain. Less stressed for longer hassle-free life. To me, buying a kiosk on wheels with anything less than 6 cylinders is like making love with 3 rubbers on. You get the extra safety, but would you really sacrifice the rest?

Forget the hybrid, get a 3.0 liter diesel.
I don't know if I agree with the post, not enough information yet, but I do know the analogy was funny
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      03-15-2015, 11:37 AM   #30
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Thanks =)

I hate being serious all the time
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      03-15-2015, 01:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matowi
I find it hard to believe these strained 4-pots (313bhp form 2 liters?) will prove durable. Not to mention the acoustics they'll be producing

A big car like the x5 (or the mentioned xc90) should have a proper drivetrain. Less stressed for longer hassle-free life. To me, buying a kiosk on wheels with anything less than 6 cylinders is like making love with 3 rubbers on. You get the extra safety, but would you really sacrifice the rest?

Forget the hybrid, get a 3.0 liter diesel.
It's 313 with the electric motor. So likely the ICE not making more power than in a 328, etc.

BTW, ever see the engines they run in Europe. Don't look, you might be horrified.

In all seriousness, your point about hybrid vs diesel is apples and kumquats. Diesel isn't suited to urban driving as much as a plug in hybrid. That, and the ability to drive on electric only and avoid urban congestion charges, or exclusion zones, make a compelling business case for the hybrid. And the CO2 g/km figures are considerably lower, which is important when your taxes and registration fees are based on that.

FYI, I have a diesel SUV and love it. But for shorter trips, the plug in hybrid makes more sense. .
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      03-15-2015, 01:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzequielR View Post
83-85 mpg. More like 25mpg.
Plug-in hybrids are regulatory cars. They do great on short loop tests with a fully charged battery but real world efficiency is nowhere near as good. But if you don't drive a hybrid the world as we know it will end, or not.
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      03-15-2015, 01:38 PM   #33
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Power plug on the left front is odd wonder why they could not pull this off with the i3.
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      03-15-2015, 03:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Why no X6 e40i?
Since BMW wants maximum attention from PHEV roll-outs. The model mentioned is coming slightly later this year.
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      03-15-2015, 03:59 PM   #35
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I never understood Plugin Hybrids. You need your own parking to have a wall charger to make it profitable. If you run the car on gasoline only pretty much almost all the time, which is very simple to obtain, unlike electric power, you don't get any benefit, maybe even a con, as the batteries make the car heavier.
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      03-15-2015, 04:44 PM   #36
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I hear in the Netherlands, it is a huge tax benefit if you own a hybrid car compared to normal fuel one. So i see benefits for such markets.
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      03-15-2015, 04:54 PM   #37
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Tax savings and fuel consumption aside... But can you truly ENJOY driving an electric car? I hated driving a tesla. I hated Prius. Can't come to terms with a 4 cylinder engine in a big car. This downsizing is becoming ridiculous...

I would expect "the ultimate driving machine" to be more concerned about how it makes the driver FEEL about driving (I.e. Experiencing the whole connection with the car), rather than about making an x5 the next wonder of the world in terms of fuel consumption. Plus, 4-pots just sound wrong. Which takes away the joy of being in a car and engaging with it...

This makes me sad, really. And I'll be sadder still, if the rumors of a 3 cylinder engine in the next gen 5er are true
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      03-15-2015, 06:29 PM   #38
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Simple Calculation as a UK Tax Payer for Company Car purposes:

X5 40d 7-seat with some options:
59,720 on the road
Annual 'Road Tax' 180
Personal Car Tax 6,928
Personal Fuel Tax 2,564
Total Annual Tax Bill: 9,672

Volvo XC90 Momentum T8 7-seat (basic spec is already higher than the X5 above)
59,955 on the road
Annual 'Road Tax' 0
Personal Car Tax 2,156
Personal Fuel Tax 796
Total Annual Tax Bill: 2,952

Over the 3 years I normally keep a vehicle, the T8 will give me a minimum Tax saving of 20,160

And, as a business owner I can write off the full 59,955 for the plug-in hybrid against Corporation Tax in the first year.

There's your reason for buying a plug-in hybrid, here in the UK at least. I don't have the official tax figures for the X5 40e yet but as it has a higher CO2 output, the tax benefits will be quite a bit less compared with the T8

Now let's see, a hybrid (even the T8 with it's near 400hp output) will be a little less satisfying to drive than a V8 but hey, 20,160 might just buy me a little toy for weekend trips to make up for it...
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      03-15-2015, 11:36 PM   #39
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Is it really too hard for one to go 30-45 miles on full E? Why 19 miles? Just pack Tesla's technology with BMW xdrive and you've got a vehicle worth buying AND driving!
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      03-16-2015, 03:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipMPower View Post
I never understood Plugin Hybrids. You need your own parking to have a wall charger to make it profitable. If you run the car on gasoline only pretty much almost all the time, which is very simple to obtain, unlike electric power, you don't get any benefit, maybe even a con, as the batteries make the car heavier.
Uh, I do have my own parking. Plenty of people (at least in the US) have their own parking. Read my previous post. It's called a garage. And I would have access to a socket at work also. So it does make perfect sense. For me. Not for everyone. Nothing makes perfect sense for everyone. Like I said, it would be very possible that I could go a week or two at a time of daily driving without the engine ever starting.
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      03-16-2015, 04:53 AM   #41
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Does anyone have any info on how efficient these are in hybrid-only mode (mpg using no power from plug in)?

Does anyone know how to better understand what 83.1 – 85.6 mpg imp really means? How much of this result is from the energy from the mains and how much from the gas engine/hybrid?
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      03-16-2015, 05:15 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floriank
Simple Calculation as a UK Tax Payer for Company Car purposes:

X5 40d 7-seat with some options:
59,720 on the road
Annual 'Road Tax' 180
Personal Car Tax 6,928
Personal Fuel Tax 2,564
Total Annual Tax Bill: 9,672

Volvo XC90 Momentum T8 7-seat (basic spec is already higher than the X5 above)
59,955 on the road
Annual 'Road Tax' 0
Personal Car Tax 2,156
Personal Fuel Tax 796
Total Annual Tax Bill: 2,952

Over the 3 years I normally keep a vehicle, the T8 will give me a minimum Tax saving of 20,160

And, as a business owner I can write off the full 59,955 for the plug-in hybrid against Corporation Tax in the first year.

There's your reason for buying a plug-in hybrid, here in the UK at least. I don't have the official tax figures for the X5 40e yet but as it has a higher CO2 output, the tax benefits will be quite a bit less compared with the T8

Now let's see, a hybrid (even the T8 with it's near 400hp output) will be a little less satisfying to drive than a V8 but hey, 20,160 might just buy me a little toy for weekend trips to make up for it...
Agreed, if you NEED an SUV and the driving is a secondary matter. I haven't seen nor driven the new XC90, so I have no opinion of my own with regards to noise insulation, sound of the engine and the overall driving experience there. Volvos typically have been quite loud in my experience to date.

Time will show.

By the way, I see your point and fully agree, with to such benefits to enjoy when buying the hybrid, there's no discussion.
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      03-16-2015, 01:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floriank View Post
Simple Calculation as a UK Tax Payer for Company Car purposes:

Over the 3 years I normally keep a vehicle, the T8 will give me a minimum Tax saving of 20,160

And, as a business owner I can write off the full 59,955 for the plug-in hybrid against Corporation Tax in the first year.

There's your reason for buying a plug-in hybrid, here in the UK at least.

Now let's see, a hybrid (even the T8 with it's near 400hp output) will be a little less satisfying to drive than a V8 but hey, 20,160 might just buy me a little toy for weekend trips to make up for it...
Those are dramatic tax savings. However, I bet the cost of each ton of CO2 reduced as compared to the diesel vehicle is huge, if any CO2 is reduced in practice. Meanwhile, the rest of the taxpaying public is paying for this.
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      03-16-2015, 02:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
Uh, I do have my own parking. Plenty of people (at least in the US) have their own parking. Read my previous post. It's called a garage. And I would have access to a socket at work also. So it does make perfect sense. For me. Not for everyone. Nothing makes perfect sense for everyone. Like I said, it would be very possible that I could go a week or two at a time of daily driving without the engine ever starting.
The thing is, in the US, a very large amount of people have their own homes and garages, which would then of course work with a hybrid, hell, even an electric vehicle. But now imagine this in dense cities in Europe, where most people live in apartment blocks without private garages. It would be a mess. Only the people with their own home in the suburbs could realistically think about buying a hybrid.
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