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      05-15-2017, 02:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by hyde View Post
WV website has been bad last couple of days, hopefully they get around to fixing it so we can get to see more of the Atlas.
they just need to pay the 300 bitcoins for the ransomware and get on selling cars!

For a 4600 lb car, they only offer a 240 HP I4t and 280HP VR6.
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      05-15-2017, 02:58 PM   #68
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they just need to pay the 300 bitcoins for the ransomware and get on selling cars!

For a 4600 lb car, they only offer a 240 HP I4t and 280HP VR6.

I remember seeing 300+somewhere maybe it was torque or just bad info on rumors, but 280HP seems weak for such a large car, I guess that's where the low sticker price comes from? They are not competing with Q7, instead they are competing with Minivan market. I don't think I can justify the drop in performance and go with Atlas.
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      05-15-2017, 03:01 PM   #69
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I remember seeing 300+somewhere maybe it was torque or just bad info on rumors, but 280HP seems weak for such a large car, I guess that's where the low sticker price comes from? They are not competing with Q7, instead they are competing with Minivan market. I don't think I can justify the drop in performance and go with Atlas.
280 probably good enough. On par with X5 35i. But it's a car designed to carry 7 full time.

Low sticker would be from cheaper interior. But that's okay if you have kids, who'll beat the shit out of it. Also AWD is not standard, it's an extra $2300
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      05-15-2017, 03:10 PM   #70
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btw, I'm starting to like this Atlas a lot. I just might end up buying it too. They claim to have class leading 3rd row room.

There are two AWD trims with VR6 for less than $40k. That is no money at all for german engineering.

They also claim 3 across for kids seats as well in the 2nd row. The middle seat can be taken out to make it a 2+2+2.





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      05-15-2017, 05:23 PM   #71
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I'd get a previous gen GL class; the new one is too bulky for my tastes. It looks like the old GL but bloated.
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      05-15-2017, 06:14 PM   #72
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      05-15-2017, 07:45 PM   #73
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      05-15-2017, 08:44 PM   #74
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I'd get a previous gen GL class; the new one is too bulky for my tastes. It looks like the old GL but bloated.
You mean GL450 not GLS450?
I didn't notice a whole lot of changes from GL to GLS? Can you believe GLS is narrower than X5. Most people don't realize how spacious X5 is, there is only a few large SUVs that can beat X5's shoulder room.

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btw, I'm starting to like this Atlas a lot. I just might end up buying it too. They claim to have class leading 3rd row room.

There are two AWD trims with VR6 for less than $40k. That is no money at all for german engineering.

They also claim 3 across for kids seats as well in the 2nd row. The middle seat can be taken out to make it a 2+2+2.
Interesting pictures, but does AWD version limit the room in any way? It's FWD when it's not AWD, right?
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      05-16-2017, 01:12 PM   #75
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You mean GL450 not GLS450?
I didn't notice a whole lot of changes from GL to GLS? Can you believe GLS is narrower than X5. Most people don't realize how spacious X5 is, there is only a few large SUVs that can beat X5's shoulder room.



Interesting pictures, but does AWD version limit the room in any way? It's FWD when it's not AWD, right?
from what I can tell, there's no such limits as the Atlas doesn't have that much more features you would expect like "stow and go" seats or anything like that.

In terms of how the center diff works, I have no idea what they're using. I can't imagine they'll deviate from any other traverse engine setup: So it'll be a Haldex system or a viscous coupling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattr...sverse_systems

Either systems are normally 90-95% front split. So it's not to sophisticated, but what'd you expect?


Also, it appears the launch edition and the current cars are all VR6s, which means the I-4ts will all come in later in the year.

I'm serious, I think I'm probably buying this car. On paper, all the numbers and features work out. You get a lot of car for $38k. That's no money at all. Hell a minivan will cost you that much too.
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      05-16-2017, 04:54 PM   #76
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the Atlas does have the haldex system found in the golf and similar to the xc90.
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      05-17-2017, 02:27 PM   #77
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Went to check out Range Rover Sport, the guy was straight forward "don't expect you can fit anyone back there". I also had a chance to see the X5's 3rd row, that's almost as good as non-existent, not sure who you can fit back there, small kids will need booster/child seat which probably will not work since there is no easy access back there (2nd row don't fold out, you have to jump over them) and even with 2nd row slid forward, not much legroom. Maybe if you have few short 8-10 year olds. I wonder why they don't do rear facing seats anymore?

Took a look at Q7, the interior is really nice, so much improvement over previous generation and it did not feel like a long minivan at all, while it looks that way on the outside. I thought the blind spots would be bad, but while I didn't testdrive, C and D pillars are not that bad, in fact almost same as X5 at a glance. Again, I like the technology in Q7 even the ones priced under 70k. One thing I noticed missing in a lot of vehicles is a good HUD. Neither Audio nor LR had a single vehicle with HUD.

PS: 540i xDrive, wow, what a sweet vehicle. The had a souped up one at Oyster Bay BMW, made me consider it for a second. I wish BMW updated X5 interior to keep up with 5 ad 7 series. That interior was top notch.
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      05-17-2017, 02:51 PM   #78
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frankly if new Q7 3rd row is cramped, I don't see how Atlas 3rd row would be better. Both built on MQB platform. Maybe they took the bulkiness out of the 2nd row seats in the Atlas to buy a few more inches of leg room? But they claim class leading 3rd row leg room.
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      05-18-2017, 01:11 PM   #79
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I had the same buying parameters coming out of my X5

I considered:

Escalade - drove like a truck, which I guess it is, but the handling was so bad compared to my X5 that I couldn't even consider it.

GLS - See Escalade. Not nearly as bad as the Cadillac, but the whole driving experience just felt soft and mushy to me. Nice interior, but beginning to feel dated.

Q7 - Nice car. Could happily have bought this. Runner up.

XC90 - Winner.

Beautiful interior, good third row seat room and a huge trunk. Decent handling with air suspension, adjustable dampers and 20" rims, but a step down from my M Sport X5 with adaptive suspension.

I got the Polestar upgrade to get the XC90 to about 330hp / 330 lb/ft, and it is powerful enough for what I need given that this is my family car (accelerating into gaps in traffic, overtaking etc), but it's not as nice or smooth as the straight 6 that was in my bimmer.

The semi-autonomous driving, active driving assistance, active safety features, and general technology in the Volvo are a generation or two ahead of the X5. It's night and day better in terms of the features. That said, BMW's iDrive is a significantly better and more intuitive interface than Volvo's Sensus, which I guess is to be expected given the amount of development time each has had.

The Volvo is much better value also. I got a Momentum T6 with every option other than the upgraded stereo - $68K sticker, $62K sale price. A similar spec x35i was coming in at $6 to $7K more, and even then the Volvo had a huge feature advantage over the BMW because it hasmany features you can't even get in an X5. With BMW's change in leasing philosophy, the Volvo also had better residual and money factor when I picked up mine in March.

In many respects, the Volvo XC90 is a compromise for me. If I could have bought a slightly bigger X5 with a usable third row, a bigger trunk, and the more up to date technology from the new 5 and 7 series cars, I probably would have stuck with BMW. Whether it's the X7 or X5, hopefully whatever BMW is offering in 3 years when my lease is up will be a better fit for my family than what they have available today, and I can get back into a BMW.
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      05-18-2017, 01:31 PM   #80
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      05-18-2017, 05:05 PM   #81
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Quote:
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Q7 - Nice car. Could happily have bought this. Runner up.

XC90 - Winner.


How is the transmission on Volvo? I heard that was one of the issues with XC90. And lack of line of sight navigation screen would probably bother me, that tall screen instead of the usual horizontal display.

Does XC90 have HUD?


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Q7 or Escalade
I am seriously considering Q7 now, not sure if I can live with that length in NYC, already hard to find parking, but I figured I generally don't park if it's that tight anyway and the difference is about 8" unlike GLS 10" longer and much taller.
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      05-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerEast View Post
I had the same buying parameters coming out of my X5

I considered:

Escalade - drove like a truck, which I guess it is, but the handling was so bad compared to my X5 that I couldn't even consider it.

GLS - See Escalade. Not nearly as bad as the Cadillac, but the whole driving experience just felt soft and mushy to me. Nice interior, but beginning to feel dated.

Q7 - Nice car. Could happily have bought this. Runner up.

XC90 - Winner.

Beautiful interior, good third row seat room and a huge trunk. Decent handling with air suspension, adjustable dampers and 20" rims, but a step down from my M Sport X5 with adaptive suspension.

I got the Polestar upgrade to get the XC90 to about 330hp / 330 lb/ft, and it is powerful enough for what I need given that this is my family car (accelerating into gaps in traffic, overtaking etc), but it's not as nice or smooth as the straight 6 that was in my bimmer.

The semi-autonomous driving, active driving assistance, active safety features, and general technology in the Volvo are a generation or two ahead of the X5. It's night and day better in terms of the features. That said, BMW's iDrive is a significantly better and more intuitive interface than Volvo's Sensus, which I guess is to be expected given the amount of development time each has had.

The Volvo is much better value also. I got a Momentum T6 with every option other than the upgraded stereo - $68K sticker, $62K sale price. A similar spec x35i was coming in at $6 to $7K more, and even then the Volvo had a huge feature advantage over the BMW because it hasmany features you can't even get in an X5. With BMW's change in leasing philosophy, the Volvo also had better residual and money factor when I picked up mine in March.

In many respects, the Volvo XC90 is a compromise for me. If I could have bought a slightly bigger X5 with a usable third row, a bigger trunk, and the more up to date technology from the new 5 and 7 series cars, I probably would have stuck with BMW. Whether it's the X7 or X5, hopefully whatever BMW is offering in 3 years when my lease is up will be a better fit for my family than what they have available today, and I can get back into a BMW.
I was considering the XC90 (PHEV version) too. On the used market, they got killed on depreciation, you can get one <20k miles for <$55k (Inscription trim too if you wait for one).

I just heard they had a lot of initial defects from this launch model. So today my replacement for my X5 are:


1. X5 40e
2. '15 Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid
3. VW Atlas
4. Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
5. '15 GL, whatever the last facelifted one that's not currently for sale as a new car.
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      05-18-2017, 05:16 PM   #83
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don't blame you for liking the new Q7 though. The tech is the best part of new Audi cars. I think it's underpowered, and overpriced (new). Though, they are releasing the SQ7 soon (unknown for US), and I just need that kind of power in my life for a 5300lb car.

Can't explain why, you dont' know when you'll need a tri-turbo V8 these days, but when you do, you'll thank yourself later.

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      05-18-2017, 06:12 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerEast View Post
I got the Polestar upgrade to get the XC90 to about 330hp / 330 lb/ft, and it is powerful enough for what I need given that this is my family car (accelerating into gaps in traffic, overtaking etc), but it's not as nice or smooth as the straight 6 that was in my bimmer.
How is the tune? Any complaints with drivability or daily use?
Any issues with the vehicle itself?
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      05-18-2017, 11:10 PM   #85
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don't blame you for liking the new Q7 though. The tech is the best part of new Audi cars. I think it's underpowered, and overpriced (new).
I don't know about overpriced, do you mean for an Audi? I thought Audis were almost always in line with BMW? The MSRP of nearly fully loaded Q7 is right about $70k, where you barely scratch the surface with an X5.

0-60 of Q7 is better than current X5, not that it matters much but it seems to be adequately powered. If it will keep me from driving fast, so be it, but one thing I really wouldn't enjoy is if there is excessive body roll. Despite what people say about X5, it's been great taking corners or curves at higher speeds, dropping the gear and shifting it to sport is more than enough to get a pretty grippy on the road. Not sure how well Q7 does in that department. X5 is taller actually, so shorter Q7 might help with that.
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      05-19-2017, 08:23 AM   #86
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Quote:
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The MSRP of nearly fully loaded Q7 is right about $70k, where you barely scratch the surface with an X5.
Fully loaded Q7 Prestige is $88k before $900 shipping fee. BMW has always been slightly more expensive because of the "free maintenance".
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      05-19-2017, 11:35 AM   #87
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Fully loaded Q7 Prestige is $88k before $900 shipping fee. BMW has always been slightly more expensive because of the "free maintenance".
Luckily Audi put their packages together more sensibly than BMW, so you don't actually have to get $6k Luxury Package to get keyless entry, and I also left out things like Night Vision and Bang Olufsen.

I was excited to get the 4-wheel steering but I am not sure if I really want the air suspension. That gets me to $72k with Air Suspension and $68k without.

I am paying $900/mo for my $70k MSRP for my X5. I don't expect Audi to go as deep with their discounts at the time of signing, but at least they should be able to manage same or lower monthly payments, though I am not sure how bad their MF is.
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      05-19-2017, 05:07 PM   #88
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If you are looking for something different how about a Dodge Durango srt? They come out at the end of this year rumored to be around 70k. Basically a stretched cherokee chasis, 6 seater, full leather including dash, alcantara headliner, brembos, 20's, 6.beast hemi, awd, touch screen, variable shocks. I never ever thought I would go American (have only ever owned BMW's), but that is my plan. Have been through 4 X5's and I just can't handle the F15's at all. I'm thinking the srt durango will be a perfect no f*cks given suv that can handle family life without me having to stress over it. Go to the beach, father-in-laws farm, camping, etc. Plus rumored 4ish to 60 and suspension dynamics supposedly tuned at VIR. If nothing else it will have character.
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