LED Foglights = Useless

[MattBianco]

Our foglights are designed to do two things: 1) provide cornering lights; and 2) make the car more visible to other drivers in whiteout conditions. They fail in both cases.

1
I have for one year been suspect of the fogs, because they do not light up anything when cornering. Our CLK has the same feature and there is a very noticeable area that is lit up when you turn the wheel. I suspected the X5 beams are not well adjusted, but I never bothered to deal with the adjustment as messing with them, without the proper calibration system could actually make them worse and blinding to other drivers. At any rate, after one year of trying very hard to lean over and see the what lights up, I conclude they are a fail. For the record, turning the steering does turn them on, but they are just not bright enough.

2
We had schedule issues and ended up taking two cars to the mountains for a ski trip. On the way back, there was snow and fog, and white out conditions during day light (around 1 pm). My wife was following me (this only happens during multi-car drives by the way), and she turned on her fogs. I was in front of her for a good 2 hour drive, anywhere from 1 to 10 car lengths ahead. The fogs were absolutely abysmal. They appeared as a tiny white dot. They were barely noticeable when you needed them to be.

I understand the purpose of these lights: to make the car more visible to other drivers, without creating a glare for anyone. This is in part why they are often low, and the beam spreads below the low beam. The X5 lights are already too hight to be effective (a criticism I have read on German forums as well). But the biggest fail is that they are too small and dim.

I have been a foglight guy since 1978. I have had Bosch, Piaa, selective yellow, LED, halogen. I don't care for the turning lights enough to deal and complain about, but I expect a fog light to do what it is supposed to. I had toyed with the idea of putting yellow film over the X5 beams, but I have been unable to find a film that is is in "Selective Yellow" color, with some reviews as to its ability to not fade. Now that I have seen the fogs in action, I can tell you the problem is lumens before color.

When I look at the fogs, it looks like they have an upper and a lower portion. I am going to assume one works with cornering and one just as fogs. At any rate, however they are to work, they don't.

All I can say is thank goodness for the LED lights. In low beam they were the only light that provided any value. Again, I had over two hours to compare the low beams and the fogs vs other cars on the road, and behind me. The low beam LEDs were a win. The fogs were a fail.

[r33_RGSport]

@MattBianco , i am not sure if my claim is correct, but I think DOT doesn't allow yellow foglamp anymore since the late 80's or early 90's.
I had PIAA on my Honda before (who doesn't ), and I got harassed by cops even when it is not on. They told me it is illegal to have yellow light.
I think, yellow light penetrate the fogs much better than white light.

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@MattBianco , i am not sure if my claim is correct, but I think DOT doesn't allow yellow foglamp anymore since the late 80's or early 90's.
I had PIAA on my Honda before (who doesn't ), and I got harassed by cops even when it is not on. They told me it is illegal to have yellow light.
I think, yellow light penetrate the fogs much better than white light.

Thanks Ben. DOT is silent on color and refers to this http://standards.sae.org/j583_201510/ California is the only state with specific regulation on this and they are related to beam aim, and placement of the lights (must be lower than the other lights, and two permissible at most). http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=24400-24411 Yellow/amber is legal in all 50 states as far as I can tell. Connecticut specifically mentions "amber" as legal.

[Baunton]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

Our foglights are designed to do two things: 1) provide cornering lights; and 2) make the car more visible to other drivers in whiteout conditions. They fail in both cases.

1
I have for one year been suspect of the fogs, because they do not light up anything when cornering. Our CLK has the same feature and there is a very noticeable area that is lit up when you turn the wheel. I suspected the X5 beams are not well adjusted, but I never bothered to deal with the adjustment as messing with them, without the proper calibration system could actually make them worse and blinding to other drivers. At any rate, after one year of trying very hard to lean over and see the what lights up, I conclude they are a fail. For the record, turning the steering does turn them on, but they are just not bright enough.

2
We had schedule issues and ended up taking two cars to the mountains for a ski trip. On the way back, there was snow and fog, and white out conditions during day light (around 1 pm). My wife was following me (this only happens during multi-car drives by the way), and she turned on her fogs. I was in front of her for a good 2 hour drive, anywhere from 1 to 10 car lengths ahead. The fogs were absolutely abysmal. They appeared as a tiny white dot. They were barely noticeable when you needed them to be.

I understand the purpose of these lights: to make the car more visible to other drivers, without creating a glare for anyone. This is in part why they are often low, and the beam spreads below the low beam. The X5 lights are already too hight to be effective (a criticism I have read on German forums as well). But the biggest fail is that they are too small and dim.

I have been a foglight guy since 1978. I have had Bosch, Piaa, selective yellow, LED, halogen. I don't care for the turning lights enough to deal and complain, but I expect a fog light to do what it is supposed to. I had toyed with the idea of putting yellow film over the X5 beams, but I have been unable to find a film that is is in "Selective Yellow" color, with some reviews as to its ability to not fade. Now that I have seen the fogs in action, I can tell you the problem is lumens before color.

When I look at the fogs, it looks like they have an upper and a lower portion. I am going to assume one works with cornering and one just as fogs. At any rate, however they are to work, they don't.

All I can say is thank goodness for the LED lights. In low beam they were the only light that provided any value. Again, I had over two hours to compare the low beams and the fogs vs other cars on the road, and behind me. The low beam LEDs were a win. The fogs were a fail.

MattBianco i have always found fogs pretty useless at helping you see in bad visibility so have to agree.
It's bloody annoying when people leave em on in normal clear conditions.

Anyway, hope you feel better after getting that off your chest Niko

PS Were you at Tahoe? My son was up there last weekend

[MattBianco]

Baunton yes.....fourth trip up to Tahoe this year as we are having a good year. Either Cortina or St. Moritz in two weeks Then straight from there to Tahoe again on 12 FEB.....if Jr. is there, would be a pleasure to do a couple of runs with him.

[5fix]

OP, not sure I agree. I have always assumed that fog lights spread light low and wide to help you see the edge(s) of the road when it is foggy. My X5 fogs do just that. If your headlights are on during the day they will always provide much greater visibility to other vehicles since they are higher and brighter.

[Alan l.]

I'm not sure if its due to the coding that i've done since i don't remember everything that i did but I notice that whenever i turn on my fogs my driver side LED low beam shift slightly over to the middle of the car. Once I turn the fogs off the beam shifts back. No idea the purpose of this.

I use to be a fog light guy as well and had many sets of PIAA's in the past. These stock LED fogs don't light up anywhere near what those use to do but they also don't blind the hell out of incoming cars as well.

Alan

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by 5fix

OP, not sure I agree. I have always assumed that fog lights spread light low and wide to help you see the edge(s) of the road when it is foggy. My X5 fogs do just that. If your headlights are on during the day they will always provide much greater visibility to other vehicles since they are higher and brighter.

I agree with this as well.. My fogs ( when I turned them on ) light the roads low and wide.. I can see the side shoulders very well when lit and barely see it when turned off so the light spread is pretty good for a factory installed fogs.

IMO these are more of assisting driving lights than fog lights as far as its purpose.. and it is actually useful for me.. For example... when I take turns at low speeds the lights turns on in the direction to see any potential hazards/obstacles in the corners where I am turning into..

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by Kzang

I agree with this as well.. My fogs ( when I turned them on ) light the roads low and wide.. I can see the side shoulders very well when lit and barely see it when turned off so the light spread is pretty good for a factory installed fogs.

IMO these are more of assisting driving lights than fog lights as far as its purpose.. and it is actually useful for me.. For example... when I take turns at low speeds the lights turns on in the direction to see any potential hazards/obstacles in the corners where I am turning into..

and 5fix

But these don't function that way, for fog.

For emphasis: if you want to test your fog lights you cannot be driving the car. You have to see the car from the perspective of other vehicles on the road (n/a for cornering lights) -a concept that is obvious for rear fog lights, but somehow often overlooked for front ones.

WRT cornering lights, I have tested and know they turn on when turning the wheel, but I see zero difference. In my CLK, I see a distinct area (especially left turn, but also right) lit up.

Purpose 2 in my OP, as mentioned, is for others to see you. I was leading the X5 for two hours through snow/fog at day light and it was not well noticeable. A tiny white dot in the bumper that is barely visible is what others see when you have your fog lights on -in fog and whiteout. It was a joke.

Meanwhile, several MBs had fogs on that were distinct. I also got behind her with the LX570 and she said those were very noticeable (not glaring).

Living in a fog belt and taking the car to snow over passes, I expect fog lights to do their job. If anyone knows where I can get "selective yellow" film I am wiling to give it a go. But at the end I suspect it is a mater of square centimeters and light output which is this case is respectively too small and too dim.

[buckeyewalt]

Not knowing any specifics of the bulb itself, but is it possible to make a bulb change?. I know that there are several manufacturers of led bulbs but like I said, don't know if it is possible.

[Neuera09]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

and 5fix

But these don't function that way, for fog.

For emphasis: if you want to test your fog lights you cannot be driving the car. You have to see the car from the perspective of other vehicles on the road (n/a for cornering lights) -a concept that is obvious for rear fog lights, but somehow often overlooked for front ones.

WRT cornering lights, I have tested and know they turn on when turning the wheel, but I see zero difference. In my CLK, I see a distinct area (especially left turn, but also right) lit up.

Purpose 2 in my OP, as mentioned, is for others to see you. As you point out the low-wide beam achieves that without glare for others and reflection for the driver. That is the biggest fail. I was leading the X5 for two hours through snow/fog at day light and it was not noticeable.

A tiny white dot in the bumper that is barely visible is what others see when you have your fog lights on -in fog and whiteout. It was a joke.

Meanwhile, several MBs had fogs on that were distinct. I also got behind her with the LX570 and she said those were very noticeable (not glaring).

Living in a fog belt and taking the car to snow over passes, I expect fog lights to do their job. If anyone knows where I can get "selective yellow" film I am wiling to give it a go. But at the end I suspect it is a mater of square centimeters and light output which is this case is respectively too small and too dim.

Check this website Matt. This might be a solution. There is also a How to YouTube video that you could watch. Good luck!

http://www.headlightarmor.com/14-16-...ction-kit.aspx

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by Neuera09

Check this website Matt. This might be a solution. There is also a How to YouTube video that you could watch. Good luck!

http://www.headlightarmor.com/14-16-...ction-kit.aspx

Thanks. I have seen similar, but am not sure if they are the right selective yellow, that is most effective in fog/whitouts. I am also hoping to see a review which covers color stability. Thank you.

[Neuera09]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

Thanks. I have seen similar, but am not sure if they are the right selective yellow, that is most effective in fog/whitouts. I am also hoping to see a review which covers color stability. Thank you.

You are welcome. It is by far the cheapest of all the DIY projects. I also came across this article about fog lamps, selective yellow, beam pattern, etc.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...fog_lamps.html