A car that everybody should hate is now beating records

[Mingwan]

Gat damn.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

35-40kmsrp. with the markup you may be at 45-50k

With car pricing insanity these days, I'm not even surprised.

[jmg]

Am I slightly annoyed that it beat the M3/4 on the ring? I gotta admit, yup I am. But we all know that ring times don't necessarily translate to real world performance. I don't plan to race any Type R's in my lifetime anyhow. It will be interesting to see who actually ponies up $40k+ for a civic though. Rich kids and track rats probably, not that there is anything wrong with this being a strong alternative to the MX-5 track car for the masses. Kudos to Honda for stepping up, let's hope they don't disappoint us when they actually go on sale. They already botched the NSX by pricing it out of the market, I hope they don't make the same mistake here.

[RM7]

Impressive, but not especially interesting to me, because they are fighting physics to do it and most likely with tires that'll last a lap or two (especially given the braking tricks that are usually used here). I'm sure there are good things about the car, but I'd rather start with something that isn't fighting itself nearly as much, even if it is slower. I feel the same way about 911s, nice, but not impressive anymore because it appears the only way to make them as fast around turns as better laid-out chassis is to simply make them wider and wider with tricks like 4 wheel steering, to offset the engine being behind the rear axle. At some point, the design gives way to physics, but up until that point, you're spending a lot of money, time and R&D to make something inherently inferior "fast". If people want it, great I guess, but I'd rather they put that time and effort into a BRZ type car.

In other words, they've maxed this out, it's a snarling monster trying to tear itself apart to accomplish this feat. Start with a more optimized chassis and you'll be better off, modify said chassis to the same extent and you'll probably smash this "record" too.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Impressive, but not especially interesting to me, because they are fighting physics to do it and most likely with tires that'll last a lap or two (especially given the braking tricks that are usually used here). I'm sure there are good things about the car, but I'd rather start with something that isn't fighting itself nearly as much, even if it is slower. I feel the same way about 911s, nice, but not impressive anymore because it appears the only way to make them as fast around turns as better laid-out chassis is to simply make them wider and wider with tricks like 4 wheel steering, to offset the engine being behind the rear axle. At some point, the design gives way to physics, but up until that point, you're spending a lot of money, time and R&D to make something inherently inferior "fast". If people want it, great I guess, but I'd rather they put that time and effort into a BRZ type car.

In other words, they've maxed this out, it's a snarling monster trying to tear itself apart to accomplish this feat. Start with a more optimized chassis and you'll be better off, modify said chassis to the same extent and you'll probably smash this "record" too.

If only you were right about the 911. Sure, the engine being behind the axle creates some minor polar moment issues, but the weight balance it creates is actually ideal, don't believe the 50/50 BS. Having more weight on the rear axle allows for the rear brakes to contribute to braking much more and results in faster lap times. What car doesn't benefit from being wider or having aws?

F1 cars run absurd rear weight balances, especially on tracks where braking giving more advantage than handling. I've argued for years that the Cayman is a better chassis for Porsche to develop than the 911, but even 3.8L conversion Caymans can't outbrake a 911 or make up lap times against the seemingly backwards design. And a FM design certainly isn't the answer. Sure they're fun, but if a TdF Ferrari can't outrun a 911, what's Porsche going to do to make that setup magically faster?

[nyalpine90]

not a fan of the design new gen type r.
but this one yes!

[BimmerMat135]

For the ones that don't like it or find it too expensive, if you would be in the market for a car that has to do both day to day duty and be a track warrior on week end what else would you choose? It has to cost more or less the same be able to be driven easily in the snow, and offer seating for 5 passengers and their luggages. I'm waiting for the answer because I will be in this market during the next year.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If only you were right about the 911.

Ahh...so tell me why Porsche uses a mid-engine configuration for their hypercars? Even the 911 RSR http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...rank-walliser/

[insanecoder]

Look this is obviously competing with the WRX boy-racer type of car.. and WRX is a great car but .. anyone here lookin' for that?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

For the ones that don't like it or find it too expensive, if you would be in the market for a car that has to do both day to day duty and be a track warrior on week end what else would you choose? It has to cost more or less the same be able to be driven easily in the snow, and offer seating for 5 passengers and their luggages. I'm waiting for the answer because I will be in this market during the next year.

You think a civic will fit 5 people and luggage? 2 adults and 3 children maybe.

I'd say an STI, Focus RS, Camaro V6 1LE, and many other cars would be just as if not more practical and for the most part better chassis to start from. Plenty of cars can be driven in the snow with winter tires just fine (just got my summers back on last weekend).

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

You think a civic will fit 5 people and luggage? 2 adults and 3 children maybe.

I'd say an STI, Focus RS, Camaro V6 1LE, and many other cars would be just as if not more practical and for the most part better chassis to start from. Plenty of cars can be driven in the snow with winter tires just fine (just got my summers back on last weekend).

None of theses cars are as capable on a race track as the type R is. The Camaro is a terribly bad winter car and never as practical as a civic. Look at the review the civic got a huge back seat.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Ahh...so tell me why Porsche uses a mid-engine configuration for their hypercars? Even the 911 RSR http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...rank-walliser/

They can improve on it, but how many times has a 911 won its class at LeMans over any other configuration?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

For the ones that don't like it or find it too expensive, if you would be in the market for a car that has to do both day to day duty and be a track warrior on week end what else would you choose? It has to cost more or less the same be able to be driven easily in the snow, and offer seating for 5 passengers and their luggages. I'm waiting for the answer because I will be in this market during the next year.

Modded Subaru WRX or STI for these criteria

[capo180]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

None of theses cars are as capable on a race track as the type R is. The Camaro is a terribly bad winter car and never as practical as a civic. Look at the review the civic got a huge back seat.

I'd rather STI because it's a nicer looking car to me. Idk if I would be able to completely exploit the extra track performance from the civic anyways.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

In other words, they've maxed this out, it's a snarling monster trying to tear itself apart to accomplish this feat. Start with a more optimized chassis and you'll be better off, modify said chassis to the same extent and you'll probably smash this "record" too.

but then it wouldn't be a civic.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by jmg

Modded Subaru WRX or STI for these criteria

Modded is the key words if your going to void the warranty you can't compare.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Modded is the key words if your going to void the warranty you can't compare.

Who's comparing? You asked a question, I answered. If you don't agree, that's fine, but I'm not going to change my answer because you have another criteria that you didn't state earlier. In hindsight, it sounds like that question was loaded and more rhetorical than a legitimate request for information. If you want the Type R, get it, you don't need anyone else's approval, there are no arguments to be won here to validate your choice. I will never get a Type R, it's not my type of car. Maybe it's your type of car? That's your prerogative. Please post pictures when you do, because I think it's an interesting car! Just not for me.

You want a track warrior and are worried about your warranty? Sounds like you want more like a street car you can track rather than a track warrior you can street. That's a whole different ballgame. A truly track ready Type R will still need modifications.

You think that Type R will be good in the snow? I don't think so.

[bd307]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

not a fan of the design new gen type r.
but this one yes!

This is FTW!

The new CTR is not the kind of car I would buy at this point of my life, but give Honda some credits to crank out some real sporty cars.

New S2K is another story though. It will be a very interesting car.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If only you were right about the 911. Sure, the engine being behind the axle creates some minor polar moment issues, but the weight balance it creates is actually ideal, don't believe the 50/50 BS. Having more weight on the rear axle allows for the rear brakes to contribute to braking much more and results in faster lap times. What car doesn't benefit from being wider or having aws?

F1 cars run absurd rear weight balances, especially on tracks where braking giving more advantage than handling. I've argued for years that the Cayman is a better chassis for Porsche to develop than the 911, but even 3.8L conversion Caymans can't outbrake a 911 or make up lap times against the seemingly backwards design. And a FM design certainly isn't the answer. Sure they're fun, but if a TdF Ferrari can't outrun a 911, what's Porsche going to do to make that setup magically faster?

lol

[PoorLurker]

The new Civic Type R is super ricey and flashy.

At the end of the day, it's still a freaking civic. Add on top that it will be a $35k+ civic and pandora's box opens.

At this point in my life, the Civic Type R is pretty much against everything I want.

I want a weekend car that sits in the garage. It's not really a weekend car.

I want a daily driver in the driveway. It's not purely a daily driver that I can share driving duties with my wife.

It pretty much checks no boxes except...
O - appeals to me

I have a strong want for some reason. ????

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

The new Civic Type R is super ricey and flashy.

functional.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by jmg

Am I slightly annoyed that it beat the M3/4 on the ring?

Cars like this have been beating or equalling m3's and porsches on the ring for quite some time now (5 years or so)
Everyone that has been there (or in the villages around it) may think he's currently in france because the amount of renault meganes/renault garages is immense.
Also the leon cupra is popular. All cars not sold in the us, but very very popular and very fast on track.
These cars (these versions at least) are designed as track performance cars from factory because there is this insane war between some manufactureres to see who's the fastest on the nordschleife, and that makes these cars very fast. Its like a bmw form the era when /M stood for 'Motorsport' and not /Marketing (think e36 m3 eurospec)
These cars have well tuned suspension, quality brakes, low in weight, very fast, and less than half the price of an M4 and just as fast or faster on a track.
And that with over 100 hp less. That means they're extremely good in corners and on braking.
BMW could take an example to that.