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      08-21-2015, 10:39 AM   #23
NVRfollo
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I think all the points about dedicated snows being superior in winter safety are on point. You have upgrade 20" wheels right now. Those tires will last you 20-25K miles, 30K if you are really lucky. I priced out OEM replacements which are the Contisportcontacts on Tirerack at ~$1800 for tires alone. The Dunlops are ~$1600. A dedicate 18" setup with Blizzak DM-V1's on a cheap set up rims are $1100. The winters tires will last about the same number of miles as the summers. This is a nice savings of $500-700, the added winter safety, and save abuse on your 20" rims.
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      08-21-2015, 02:20 PM   #24
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      08-21-2015, 10:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVRfollo
A dedicate 18" setup with Blizzak DM-V1's on a cheap set up rims are $1100. The winters tires will last about the same number of miles as the summers. This is a nice savings of $500-700, the added winter safety, and save abuse on your 20" rims.
You must be psychic NVRfollo.
255/55/18 DM-V1s on Sport Edition wheels.
Totally understand that severe winter folks who swap out for the season would want nicer/bigger wheels since they have to ride on the setup for months at a time. This setup is perfect for me as I swap in/out from the comforts of my garage, so don't care too much about looks. Heck, if I could find black steel wheels that fit, I'd do that...
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      08-22-2015, 01:10 PM   #26
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Silly question
Why are 19's better than 20's with winters on for the snow?
Isn't wider better since they cover more ground?
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      08-22-2015, 02:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc328ci View Post
Silly question
Why are 19's better than 20's with winters on for the snow?
Isn't wider better since they cover more ground?
You want wider in dry weather for road grip. On wet and snow cover roads, the narrower the tire, the better. You have less surface to slip and slide on.
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      08-22-2015, 04:32 PM   #28
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Wider tires also tend to hydroplane more ( more surface area ) and narrower tires sort of cut through the snow easier.
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      08-23-2015, 03:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawks View Post
To be honest, I have never had a dedicated set of winter tires and the Acura AWD was magnificent in the snow. This will be my first winter with the BMW and I'm intending on getting a winter set. Granted, it can snow on Halloween and sunny and 70 on Christmas, but there aren't any run flat options in an all season that fit the M Sport staggered setup. I'm one of the few here that doesn't mind the road noise from the run flats...
AWD doesnt help with braking!

I have studded 20 inch Hakka 8 all around.
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      08-23-2015, 03:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kip1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawks View Post
To be honest, I have never had a dedicated set of winter tires and the Acura AWD was magnificent in the snow. This will be my first winter with the BMW and I'm intending on getting a winter set. Granted, it can snow on Halloween and sunny and 70 on Christmas, but there aren't any run flat options in an all season that fit the M Sport staggered setup. I'm one of the few here that doesn't mind the road noise from the run flats...
AWD doesnt help with braking!

I have studded 20 inch Hakka 8 all around.
You're right... It doesn't necessarily help braking... But if all four wheels are working in unison and giving better traction, better braking will be a byproduct of better handling
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      08-23-2015, 03:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc328ci View Post
Silly question
Why are 19's better than 20's with winters on for the snow?
Isn't wider better since they cover more ground?
Wider is worse with snow as the weight of the car is spread over a larger area. With wider tire harder to get traction on a slippery road, other way around on dry road, feg studded tires or the tire tread gets less force to dig into ice/snow. Also the wide tire doesnt fit the dry surface tracks made by other cars on snowy roads + wide tire is more prone to follow plow stripes and at times the rear can be very lively. Also in slush snow the narrow tire cuts easier through to the dry surface below, a wide tire might slide on the surface more, compare it to aquaplaning, same effect, wide tires are worse. So more points to the narrow tire in winter. 20 inch usually have less tire tread than 19 inch.
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      08-23-2015, 03:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Blackhawks View Post
You're right... It doesn't necessarily help braking... But if all four wheels are working in unison and giving better traction, better braking will be a byproduct of better handling
Sorry, I dont understand what you mean. An awd car stopps exactly like a rwd or fwd car, or even worse as it weighs more. The only thing that affects braking are the brakes and traction of the tire! A studded tire might stop more poorly on a dry road, but much better on ice, so you need to evaluate the winters you have.
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      08-23-2015, 03:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doanster View Post
You must be psychic NVRfollo.
255/55/18 DM-V1s on Sport Edition wheels.
Totally understand that severe winter folks who swap out for the season would want nicer/bigger wheels since they have to ride on the setup for months at a time. This setup is perfect for me as I swap in/out from the comforts of my garage, so don't care too much about looks. Heck, if I could find black steel wheels that fit, I'd do that...
Steel wheels are ok, but weigh a lot more than aluminium. Also you find out why forged rims are good when you hit something or get into an accident. The forged wheels take very strong impacts without braking.
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      08-23-2015, 04:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kip1
Steel wheels are ok, but weigh a lot more than aluminium. Also you find out why forged rims are good when you hit something or get into an accident. The forged wheels take very strong impacts without braking.
Umm, this is all in relation to a dedicated winter setup. Weight and strength of the wheels are a don't-care for me.
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      08-23-2015, 04:03 PM   #35
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kip1... an AWD vehicle will provide better traction than a RWD or FWD car in the snow. It is easier to brake and come to a complete stop when you are under control (with good traction) versus being out of control (with poor traction). It's true that in dry conditions AWD braking and F/RWD braking are the same. But, if you're fishtailing in your RWD car, you can't tell me that you'll stop just as well as the AWD that's under control.

If that were the case, there would be no AWD and we would just swap out tires based on the conditions.
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      08-23-2015, 04:27 PM   #36
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I have to use a minimum of 20" wheels with my setup because of the M Performance brakes I installed. 19" wheels won't fit.
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      08-23-2015, 04:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic80
I have to use a minimum of 20" wheels with my setup because of the M Performance brakes I installed. 19" wheels won't fit.
Off topic, atomic ... Can you PM me you're thoughts on the brakes? Considered the pricey mod... But some pics they look almost like a true BBK and others they look no different than the stock calipers. Thanks in advance...
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      08-24-2015, 01:07 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawks View Post
kip1.

If that were the case, there would be no AWD and we would just swap out tires based on the conditions.
Mmmm. Thats exactly what we do in tje Northern countries. Sorry, but you are just wrong in saying that awd cars brake better. Its acceleration and handling that the awd helps in. We have often snow from October to April, so I have a little experience with driving in the snow. A perfect example was once when first snow came and I was on Holiday from University and thought my dads awd Volvo had winter tires, while my car didnt. I went up a hill very slowly and my last thought was, darn its slippery as the car barely made it up the hill. I braked and suddenly found out that I am sliding without any control down the hill on the other side. By miracle I didnt hit anything. My dad also had summer tires, absolutely no traction while braking, so full throttle and up the hill, and down the hill without braking and trying just to control the car with the throttle. Never mentioned this to my parents, but it told me awd is nothing without proper tires.

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      08-24-2015, 01:56 AM   #39
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this is the reason why i stuck with the stock 19"s. getting all season/ winter tires on those and getting aftermarket 21" or 22" for the rest of the seasons. Although the stock 20" upgrades were tempting, skinnier/ smaller sized rims were a better option for the winter
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      08-24-2015, 03:28 PM   #40
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I'm running Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow on my staggered 469M's...been very impressed thus far (1 season on them). We don't see really deep snow here, but they provide sure footing in 6" of snow and slippery conditions.
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      08-25-2015, 05:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1k0ne View Post
this is the reason why i stuck with the stock 19"s. getting all season/ winter tires on those and getting aftermarket 21" or 22" for the rest of the seasons. Although the stock 20" upgrades were tempting, skinnier/ smaller sized rims were a better option for the winter
another vote for this. i bought a demo that had the 469s with summers on it, and explicitly had them swap out for 19s with all-seasons.

i've driven RWD cars for the past 10 years in chicago, always on snows in the winter. Didn't want to deal with a dedicated set, but it's suicidal to run around on summers in the winter.
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      08-25-2015, 05:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawks View Post
kip1... an AWD vehicle will provide better traction than a RWD or FWD car in the snow. It is easier to brake and come to a complete stop when you are under control (with good traction) versus being out of control (with poor traction). It's true that in dry conditions AWD braking and F/RWD braking are the same. But, if you're fishtailing in your RWD car, you can't tell me that you'll stop just as well as the AWD that's under control.

If that were the case, there would be no AWD and we would just swap out tires based on the conditions.
you're mixing different things. a fishtailing AWD car will stop the same (poorly) as an equally fishtailing RWD (or FWD, for that matter) car. 4 wheels being braked, same effect.

AWD diminishes the chances of you fishtailing, I'll agree with you there.
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      08-25-2015, 05:40 PM   #43
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And that's all I'm saying...
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