Msport+Adaptive M VS H&R sport

[BimmerSFo]

Hi guys,

wanted to know your opinion on putting H&R Sport springs on the F15 5.0 with
M-sport and Adaptive M suspension.

how will it feel inside? very noticibly harder?

thanks!

[r33_RGSport]

@BimmerSFo, well, I don't have adaptive suspension and I am lowered on my spring set that is based off H&R kit.
The ride is not harsh, I feel it a little firmer, but also a little bouncy as expected that you get off an H&R spring.
I would think with adaptive suspension would be a little better.

[JoseSportM]

How about eibach springs. Does anyone installed it allready in the X5?

[42pilot]

Equally important, has anyone tried getting their shocks custom valved? I've done this with other performance cars to match the springs. By giving the weight of the car, spring weight, type of driving, you can get a shock that better controls rebound and dampening and works with the spring. It's relatively easy to do - you just need to find someone who knows how to do it for an F15. Springs are important, but shocks are no less important. If not balanced (spring and shock), you will get a bouncy car (weak shocks) or a very stiff ride (stiff rebound and dampening).

[Ray knight]

I sure would not want my 85k suv riding like bouncing riced out Honda Civic! No aftermarket shocks and springs are going to ride like BMW's best offerings. Bouncing heavy lowered springs can lessen handling more than it helps.

[r33_RGSport]

@42pilot, shed me some light on how to custom valved a stock OEM shock.
I have been using coilover since I have worked with a coilover company for quite some time. I know how important is spring and shock configuration combination.
Unfortunately, I have asked KW and CKS, none of them planned in developing coilover for the F15. And KW not even willing to share the specs on the set off the E70 X5.
Seems like they made a bad decision in making the set for E70 X5.
But, to tell you guys the truth, I would careless about it since I would never use this X5 as my track car.
Oh, and the bounciness, of course it is not as crazy as what you see on a honda that is riding on a bump stopper.
Another factor that makes it bouncy, is the RFT.
It is not as bouncy and better control on my 22" Non-RFT tires than my stock 20" RFT as the sidewall of the Non-RFT is absorbing most of the small bumps and dips.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Ray knight

I sure would not want my 85k suv riding like bouncing riced out Honda Civic! No aftermarket shocks and springs are going to ride like BMW's best offerings. Bouncing heavy lowered springs can lessen handling more than it helps.

I have to disagree with you.
The F10 5 series stock suspension oscillates.
The F15 X5 stock suspension is soft where it feels like a boat.
That's where they come in and telling you to spend extra money for DHP.

[cenix]

If I was a suspension company I would not even remotely consider making a coilover for an SUV, too, but your efforts are appreciated r33! Does H&R release spring rates for their sport springs? I tried asking another vendor about spring rates for the AC Schnitzer setup and he never got back to me on that. Why manufacturers do not release their aftermarket spring rates is frustrating.

[r33_RGSport]

cenix , it is their secret ingredients.
Also, since it is progressive springs, it is usually don't matter what the spring rate is.
Based on my experiences, H&R usually gives you the looks (meaning drops more and softer), but Eibach will give you the performance (drops less and stiffer). And I believe Dinan's and/or ACS are made by Eibach.
Since you are local, let me know if you want to come by and take a ride in my car. Then you can tell the members from your own perspective.

[cenix]

Originally Posted by r33

cenix , it is their secret ingredients.
Also, since it is progressive springs, it is usually don't matter what the spring rate is.
Based on my experiences, H&R usually gives you the looks (meaning drops more and softer), but Eibach will give you the performance (drops less and stiffer). And I believe Dinan's and/or ACS are made by Eibach.
Since you are local, let me know if you want to come by and take a ride in my car. Then you can tell the members from your own perspective.

I will take you up on that some day when my schedule frees up. Thanks!

Even progressive springs have a range of rates that can be published. I guess for those who are buying just springs, perhaps they believe that publishing rates are kind of pointless being that springs are more of an aesthetic mod than performance one.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by cenix

I will take you up on that some day when my schedule frees up. Thanks!

Even progressive springs have a range of rates that can be published. I guess for those who are buying just springs, perhaps they believe that publishing rates are kind of pointless being that springs are more of an aesthetic mod than performance one.

Not so - lowering the center of gravity has a very positive effect on handling

[cenix]

Originally Posted by wjbender

Not so - lowering the center of gravity has a very positive effect on handling

In a very general way, yes, I agree that the lower center of gravity has a positive effect on handling. But simply lowering the car with arbitrary spring rates mismatched to the dampers, or lowering too much and reducing travel, have farther reaching negative efffects than the lower center of gravity alone. You can end up with a really horribly handling car in these instances. Suspension is more complicated than just ride height.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by cenix

In a very general way, yes, I agree that the lower center of gravity has a positive effect on handling. But simply lowering the car with arbitrary spring rates mismatched to the dampers, or lowering too much and reducing travel, have farther reaching negative efffects than the lower center of gravity alone. You can end up with a really horribly handling car in these instances. Suspension is more complicated than just ride height.

Exactly. Just think how bad the bump steer would be on a lowered X5. Not worth driving.

@r33 - you should be able to call your sales contact/representative at KW or Eibach or HR or..., and ask them if they will custom valve the shocks. For most performance applications, they will (Mustangs, Camaros, Vettes, etc). The question is, do any of them make the front coil overs the standard F15 suspension cars have? The rear standard suspension on an X5 is simple separate spring and shock. The F15 is too new for anyone to know if the OEM shocks are rebuildable - this would be ideal.

Personally, I would ask for a softer, faster acting dampening shock for a better, more compliant ride. I think the springs are fine. But as @cenix states, a good suspension is more complicated than that. I would also want and need bigger or at least stiffer anti-sway bars to reduce the body roll. It has to be considered as a package.

[r33_RGSport]

@42pilot, that's the thing. OEM shock is a twintube design and usually is not rebuildable. So, I don't think even KW, Eibach, or H&R will custom valve the OEM shock.
Unless that you are talking about asking those manufacturer to custom valve their shocks to my needs.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by r33

@42pilot, that's the thing. OEM shock is a twintube design and usually is not rebuildable. So, I don't think even KW, Eibach, or H&R will custom valve the OEM shock.
Unless that you are talking about asking those manufacturer to custom valve their shocks to my needs.

I think it's worth a call to them. You would have a competitive advantage in this class of vehicle - a truly tuned or customized suspension package.

[BimmerSFo]

well thank you all for replying to my question, guess we all got a little bit out of topic here.

so to compare,

i used to have an e90 335 on H&R sport springs and it was bouncy compared to the original suspention and i would say, not too "family friendly"

so if i do H&R springs on the F15 x5, would i feel "not family friendly" again? or will it feel more like .... i dont know... feel in the blank?

the only thing i am trying to do is lower the car ONLY for visual purpost, not change the stiffness by a lot.

thanks again

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by BimmerSFo

well thank you all for replying to my question, guess we all got a little bit out of topic here.

so to compare,

i used to have an e90 335 on H&R sport springs and it was bouncy compared to the original suspention and i would say, not too "family friendly"

so if i do H&R springs on the F15 x5, would i feel "not family friendly" again? or will it feel more like .... i dont know... feel in the blank?

the only thing i am trying to do is lower the car ONLY for visual purpost, not change the stiffness by a lot.

thanks again

I'll try to put it in word as much as I can here.
The car ride will become a little stiffer, not much, just a little. That also because of the RFT. With 22" Non-RFT, it feels better than stock with RFT.
Bounciness wise, it is very hard to explain. Under normal driving, the car behaves normally.
The bounciness is not a suspension oscillation. It is more of a feel on the non-dampened rebound movement due to the factory shock has very soft valving.
It only happened when you hit a tall enough bump at high enough speed.
I wouldn't say it is not family friendly. I have 2 kids of my own, and I just recently took my in-law to Vegas. The ride was very smooth.
I also took the car to the track with this setup, and it performed well.
With a better valved rebound speed, would help a lot though.

[JoseSportM]

KW v3 is now available to BMW F15 but no KW DDC or HLS for now

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by jose260gti

KW v3 is now available to BMW F15 but no KW DDC or HLS for now

Correct. But only for the one with Self-Leveling suspension.
I was about to grab one for myself. But, since my car is all around spring, I can't use them.

[JoseSportM]

R33 do you know how it works with comfort and sport buttons, or we simple lost this functions?

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by jose260gti

R33 do you know how it works with comfort and sport buttons, or we simple lost this functions?

Correct. You will lose this function.

[born2winz]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Correct. You will lose this function.

r33_RGSport Hey R33..thanks for your prompt response, im the guy you helped with the 35D at your shop a year ago please p.m me would like to know more about the kw coilover v3 ...would like to get one and install on my f15 35D and the recechip as well ...

thanks,
Man