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      11-20-2017, 09:30 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Why own a depreciating asset? That makes no sense. I'll use it for three years, have a full warranty, pay the pre-paid maintenance and call it a day. Let the auto manufacturer deal with the time and money of trying to sell it.
Absolutely agreed!

Why own it when it's going to cost you the same whether you buy outright in cash or lease (of course dependent on interest/money factor)? One is just a lot less riskier and if you want to take the risk of owning a depreciating asset.. do that when the lease is over, because now you have at least had 2-3 years to figure out what it's worth to the market and whether it's worth keeping.
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      11-20-2017, 09:58 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Why own a depreciating asset? That makes no sense. I'll use it for three years, have a full warranty, pay the pre-paid maintenance and call it a day. Let the auto manufacturer deal with the time and money of trying to sell it.
Lol, yeah, why not just pay for all of the depreciation in the first 3 years and then give it back, riiiiight?
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      11-20-2017, 10:08 PM   #91
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I'm not buying cars like this.
Why? This guy explains it pretty well:

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      11-21-2017, 12:35 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Lol, yeah, why not just pay for all of the depreciation in the first 3 years and then give it back, riiiiight?
It seems you don't know the values of leasing..

I'll give you a good example of a BMW lease that I did a few years ago which saved me THOUSANDS.. just because I leased.
I leased a Z4 35is in 2011. I leased it for $389 a month. ZERO down. 24 payments and I returned it and that was that..

Total out of pocket: $9,330 + insurance and gas

Financing the same car would have cost about $1,000+ a month and that's at 72 months.. why? Because it was $72,xxx MSRP.
Now do you want to know what happened after 2 years of leasing?
I owed like 59k on the car because I had already gotten like 3k off MSRP.

The market value was 41k with 26,000 miles.
I avoided paying $17-$18,000 in value because BMW was pushing the leases so aggressively.

Imagine if I had financed.. $69,000 at 72 months with zero down @ 3.89% is about $1,100.. minus the $120 in interest, you'd be left with $1,000 being taken off principal. 24 months x 1,000 = $24,000.
$69,000 - $24,000= $45,000

So not only would I have been paying MUCH MUCH MUCH more a month for financing, I also get footed a "Hey, your car is worth less than what you owe after two years"
So will I lease if it's FINANCIALLY SMART.. Absolutely.

I don't understand people who want to own an out of warranty german vehicle anyway. It's prone to breaking and you know it.

tldr;

Leasing cost: $9,330 + gas/insurance
Financing cost: $27,000 (interest included) + $4,000 (negative eq.) = $31,000 + gas/insurance.

Worth of same said Z4 35is these days. $19k on a good day.

So basically I could have been driving new cars and enjoying them immensely for pennies on the dollar relatively or buy a car, pay a LOT more than it's worth to me... get it out of warranty (let's not get into how much it'll bore you driving 50k miles in a Z4 for 5-6 years).

Yeah.. no thanks. Financing a car is dumb if leasing is an open option.

Finance if you truly want to keep it forever but just realize.. one day that car is a POS after 100k miles (whatever car it is).

Last edited by GhostyM; 11-21-2017 at 12:49 AM..
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      11-21-2017, 12:52 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
It seems you don't know the values of leasing..

I'll give you a good example of a BMW lease that I did a few years ago which saved me THOUSANDS.. just because I leased.
I leased a Z4 35is in 2011. I leased it for $389 a month. ZERO down. 24 payments and I returned it and that was that..

Total out of pocket: $9,330 + insurance and gas

Financing the same car would have cost about $1,000+ a month and that's at 72 months.. why? Because it was $72,xxx MSRP.
Now do you want to know what happened after 2 years of leasing?
I owed like 59k on the car because I had already gotten like 3k off MSRP.

The market value was 41k with 26,000 miles.
I avoided paying $17-$18,000 in value because BMW was pushing the leases so aggressively.

Imagine if I had financed.. $69,000 at 72 months with zero down @ 3.89% is about $1,100.. minus the $120 in interest, you'd be left with $1,000 being taken off principal. 24 months x 1,000 = $24,000.
$69,000 - $24,000= $45,000

So not only would I have been paying MUCH MUCH MUCH more a month for financing, I also get footed a "Hey, your car is worth less than what you owe after two years"
So will I lease if it's FINANCIALLY SMART.. Absolutely.

I don't understand people who want to own an out of warranty german vehicle anyway. It's prone to breaking and you know it.

tldr;

Leasing cost: $9,330 + gas/insurance
Financing cost: $27,000 (interest included) + $4,000 (negative eq.) = $31,000 + gas/insurance.

Worth of same said Z4 35is these days. $19k on a good day.

So basically I could have been driving new cars and enjoying them immensely for pennies on the dollar relatively or buy a car, pay a LOT more than it's worth to me... get it out of warranty (let's not get into how much it'll bore you driving 50k miles in a Z4 for 5-6 years).

Yeah.. no thanks. Financing a car is dumb if leasing is an open option.

Finance if you truly want to keep it forever but just realize.. one day that car is a POS after 100k miles (whatever car it is).
This is the mentality I have.

In a nutshell, I've learned:

Only buy cars that you plan on keeping for a looooong time or may turn into a future project.
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      11-21-2017, 01:22 AM   #94
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Only poor people think leasing is a bad financial decision.
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      11-21-2017, 01:32 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
Only poor people think leasing is a bad financial decision.
I mean..

I sometimes feel like people who want to point out they "own/paid cash" for the vehicle are the same people who maybe need reassurance for their purchase or have an inferiority complex.

At least to me; it's a very common thing to hear among people who purchase cheaper cars.. and then it comes back around with Ferrari/Lamborghini owners, but at this point, they are just measuring how big their e-dicks are for paying cash for a Lamborghini.

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      11-21-2017, 01:42 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Lol, yeah, why not just pay for all of the depreciation in the first 3 years and then give it back, riiiiight?
That's not how leases work.
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      11-21-2017, 01:53 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
It seems you don't know the values of leasing..

I'll give you a good example of a BMW lease that I did a few years ago which saved me THOUSANDS.. just because I leased.
I leased a Z4 35is in 2011. I leased it for $389 a month. ZERO down. 24 payments and I returned it and that was that..

Total out of pocket: $9,330 + insurance and gas

Financing the same car would have cost about $1,000+ a month and that's at 72 months.. why? Because it was $72,xxx MSRP.
Now do you want to know what happened after 2 years of leasing?
I owed like 59k on the car because I had already gotten like 3k off MSRP.

The market value was 41k with 26,000 miles.
I avoided paying $17-$18,000 in value because BMW was pushing the leases so aggressively.

Imagine if I had financed.. $69,000 at 72 months with zero down @ 3.89% is about $1,100.. minus the $120 in interest, you'd be left with $1,000 being taken off principal. 24 months x 1,000 = $24,000.
$69,000 - $24,000= $45,000

So not only would I have been paying MUCH MUCH MUCH more a month for financing, I also get footed a "Hey, your car is worth less than what you owe after two years"
So will I lease if it's FINANCIALLY SMART.. Absolutely.

I don't understand people who want to own an out of warranty german vehicle anyway. It's prone to breaking and you know it.

tldr;

Leasing cost: $9,330 + gas/insurance
Financing cost: $27,000 (interest included) + $4,000 (negative eq.) = $31,000 + gas/insurance.

Worth of same said Z4 35is these days. $19k on a good day.

So basically I could have been driving new cars and enjoying them immensely for pennies on the dollar relatively or buy a car, pay a LOT more than it's worth to me... get it out of warranty (let's not get into how much it'll bore you driving 50k miles in a Z4 for 5-6 years).

Yeah.. no thanks. Financing a car is dumb if leasing is an open option.

Finance if you truly want to keep it forever but just realize.. one day that car is a POS after 100k miles (whatever car it is).
Well said. You can't throw out a blanket statement that financing is better than leasing. I laugh a little inside when people say "you have nothing to show for it at the end". I do have something to show for it: I had a brand new car for 3 years and I can wash my hand of it now. I'll never be out of warranty, with loyalty and pull aheads, I can save even more, and I can claim more on my corporate taxes. That being said, I do own 2 cars and lease 2 cars. Those owned cars are cheap and reliable Japanese cars. Maintenance is nothing compared to the Audis I have owned, which I will never do again.
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      11-21-2017, 02:07 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Well said. You can't throw out a blanket statement that financing is better than leasing. I laugh a little inside when people say "you have nothing to show for it at the end". I do have something to show for it: I had a brand new car for 3 years and I can wash my hand of it now. I'll never be out of warranty, with loyalty and pull aheads, I can save even more, and I can claim more on my corporate taxes. That being said, I do own 2 cars and lease 2 cars. Those owned cars are cheap and reliable Japanese cars. Maintenance is nothing compared to the Audis I have owned, which I will never do again.
There we go! Exactly! I couldn't have said it any better.

Own cheap cars, lease expensive ones.

It's about being financially smart, not showing off how much you "pay" a month to eventually "own" a depreciating asset. Want to hear the kicker?

The guy financing it for 7 years.. won't own it for SEVEN years. I truly dislike hearing people who finance saying we don't own a car, yet neither do they! You are in the same boat as the rest of us "leasees" and yet, much worse off. You don't own ANYTHING until you have a balance of ZERO.

That said; I do own my work vehicle (Ford Transit) and my cheap Japanese vehicle.. but German/Italian/High end ANYTHING.. nope.. leasing.
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      11-21-2017, 07:33 AM   #99
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I suppose another reason I just don't do leases is I never buy brand new. I don't get the appeal unless you have to have the latest and greatest. I always save thousands buying a car that's 2 years old or older with low miles over new. I financed my 15 z06 last year with 2k miles on her for 71k. They go for what over 100k new? Why would I want to lease a new one and have to give it up in 3 years? Granted its my toy car along with my 135i so both don't see many miles. My daily sees about 20k miles a year so again leasing even if I wanted to is out of the question. 100k miles these days isn't like cars from 10yrs ago. They are still babies at that mileage. Also, being truly financially smart would be to own that depreciating asset one day and keep driving it until it finally is done for. Constantly having a payment is debt. No other way around it. Same is for financing I agree but yet one day it will be paid off and I can turn around and sell it. If you enjoy having a payment forever then more power to ya but you cant say leasing is the smarter financial move either.
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      11-21-2017, 07:49 AM   #100
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My intentions wasn't to ensue any arguments either. I couldn't care less how people spend their money but to pay out what is basically a decent mortgage every month on something that you will never own just to keep doing it every 2 or 3 years is definitely not my definition of financially smart. Now maybe these people that are doing it are making over 500k a year and couldn't care less but I sure as hell don't. Me and my wife are very fortunate to make a very good income but at the same time, financial independence is always the goal. I hate owing somebody anything. Now that doesn't mean I don't finance things but I make sure its paid off reasonable quick. Same could be said for people that choose to finance their home for 30years and instead of paying extra, they choose to bank it in stocks. Not for me. I choose sense of security over gaining money any day, especially in this day and age. To me I think its classier to say I own what I have vs having a brand new leased car in my driveway every couple years. To each his own I suppose.
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      11-21-2017, 07:50 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04mazdaspeed View Post
I suppose another reason I just don't do leases is I never buy brand new. I don't get the appeal unless you have to have the latest and greatest. I always save thousands buying a car that's 2 years old or older with low miles over new. I financed my 15 z06 last year with 2k miles on her for 71k. They go for what over 100k new? Why would I want to lease a new one and have to give it up in 3 years? Granted its my toy car along with my 135i so both don't see many miles. My daily sees about 20k miles a year so again leasing even if I wanted to is out of the question. 100k miles these days isn't like cars from 10yrs ago. They are still babies at that mileage. Also, being truly financially smart would be to own that depreciating asset one day and keep driving it until it finally is done for. Constantly having a payment is debt. No other way around it. Same is for financing I agree but yet one day it will be paid off and I can turn around and sell it. If you enjoy having a payment forever then more power to ya but you cant say leasing is the smarter financial move either.
I get what you're saying but who here really has their car paid off? I guarantee you that 95% of M3/M4/M5 sold will be financed. And guess what? After they "pay" it off.. they'll go buy a new one and re do it all over.. aka paying payments their whole life.
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      11-21-2017, 07:51 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
It seems you don't know the values of leasing..

I'll give you a good example of a BMW lease that I did a few years ago which saved me THOUSANDS.. just because I leased.
I leased a Z4 35is in 2011. I leased it for $389 a month. ZERO down. 24 payments and I returned it and that was that..

Total out of pocket: $9,330 + insurance and gas

Financing the same car would have cost about $1,000+ a month and that's at 72 months.. why? Because it was $72,xxx MSRP.
Now do you want to know what happened after 2 years of leasing?
I owed like 59k on the car because I had already gotten like 3k off MSRP.

The market value was 41k with 26,000 miles.
I avoided paying $17-$18,000 in value because BMW was pushing the leases so aggressively.

Imagine if I had financed.. $69,000 at 72 months with zero down @ 3.89% is about $1,100.. minus the $120 in interest, you'd be left with $1,000 being taken off principal. 24 months x 1,000 = $24,000.
$69,000 - $24,000= $45,000

So not only would I have been paying MUCH MUCH MUCH more a month for financing, I also get footed a "Hey, your car is worth less than what you owe after two years"
So will I lease if it's FINANCIALLY SMART.. Absolutely.

I don't understand people who want to own an out of warranty german vehicle anyway. It's prone to breaking and you know it.

tldr;

Leasing cost: $9,330 + gas/insurance
Financing cost: $27,000 (interest included) + $4,000 (negative eq.) = $31,000 + gas/insurance.

Worth of same said Z4 35is these days. $19k on a good day.

So basically I could have been driving new cars and enjoying them immensely for pennies on the dollar relatively or buy a car, pay a LOT more than it's worth to me... get it out of warranty (let's not get into how much it'll bore you driving 50k miles in a Z4 for 5-6 years).

Yeah.. no thanks. Financing a car is dumb if leasing is an open option.

Finance if you truly want to keep it forever but just realize.. one day that car is a POS after 100k miles (whatever car it is).
But, my statement holds true, all you did was pay for BMW's predicted depreciation and then give the car back to them, right? Does BMW's prediction align with market 100% of the time... well no, but it's hard to predict the future of car values.

I never said leasing is not a good option. Look at my previous post here, I said I lease, finance, and own different cars I have. So, no need to get worked up over nothing.

I like leasing for probably the same reason you do:
1) Slightly cheaper
2) Less financial impact if in a car accident
3) New vehicles all the time
4) Under warranty / maintenance plan
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      11-21-2017, 07:53 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
It seems you don't know the values of leasing..

I'll give you a good example of a BMW lease that I did a few years ago which saved me THOUSANDS.. just because I leased.
I leased a Z4 35is in 2011. I leased it for $389 a month. ZERO down. 24 payments and I returned it and that was that..

Total out of pocket: $9,330 + insurance and gas

Financing the same car would have cost about $1,000+ a month and that's at 72 months.. why? Because it was $72,xxx MSRP.
Now do you want to know what happened after 2 years of leasing?
I owed like 59k on the car because I had already gotten like 3k off MSRP.

The market value was 41k with 26,000 miles.
I avoided paying $17-$18,000 in value because BMW was pushing the leases so aggressively.

Imagine if I had financed.. $69,000 at 72 months with zero down @ 3.89% is about $1,100.. minus the $120 in interest, you'd be left with $1,000 being taken off principal. 24 months x 1,000 = $24,000.
$69,000 - $24,000= $45,000

So not only would I have been paying MUCH MUCH MUCH more a month for financing, I also get footed a "Hey, your car is worth less than what you owe after two years"
So will I lease if it's FINANCIALLY SMART.. Absolutely.

I don't understand people who want to own an out of warranty german vehicle anyway. It's prone to breaking and you know it.

tldr;

Leasing cost: $9,330 + gas/insurance
Financing cost: $27,000 (interest included) + $4,000 (negative eq.) = $31,000 + gas/insurance.

Worth of same said Z4 35is these days. $19k on a good day.

So basically I could have been driving new cars and enjoying them immensely for pennies on the dollar relatively or buy a car, pay a LOT more than it's worth to me... get it out of warranty (let's not get into how much it'll bore you driving 50k miles in a Z4 for 5-6 years).

Yeah.. no thanks. Financing a car is dumb if leasing is an open option.

Finance if you truly want to keep it forever but just realize.. one day that car is a POS after 100k miles (whatever car it is).
But, my statement holds true, all you did was pay for BMW's predicted depreciation and then give the car back to them, right? Does BMW's prediction align with market 100% of the time... well no, but it's hard to predict the future of car values.

I never said leasing is not a good option. Look at my previous post here, I said I lease, finance, and own different cars I have. So, no need to get worked up over nothing.

I like leasing for probably the same reason you do:
1) Slightly cheaper
2) Less financial impact if in a car accident
3) New vehicles all the time
4) Under warranty / maintenance plan

But, my statement holds true, all you did was pay for BMW's predicted depreciation and then give the car back to them. Does BMW's prediction align with market 100% of the time... well no, but it's hard to predict the future of car values.
But the thing is; if BMW get it wrong.. you're safe. If they are right with the residual. you're in the same position as if you financed from the start. So.. where is the risk?
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      11-21-2017, 07:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
I get what you're saying but who here really has their car paid off? I guarantee you that 95% of M3/M4/M5 sold will be financed. And guess what? After they "pay" it off.. they'll go buy a new one and re do it all over.. aka paying payments their whole life.
I completely agree with you. The people that actually pay off their cars and keep them for as long as possible including me are very much the minority. Hence why I don't agree with leasing since you are constantly in debt but again I also see what your saying as well.
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      11-21-2017, 07:56 AM   #105
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
I get what you're saying but who here really has their car paid off? I guarantee you that 95% of M3/M4/M5 sold will be financed. And guess what? After they "pay" it off.. they'll go buy a new one and re do it all over.. aka paying payments their whole life.
I completely agree with you. The people that actually pay off their cars and keep them for as long as possible including me are very much the minority. Hence why I don't agree with leasing since you are constantly in debt but again I also see what your saying as well.
Well, maybe it's because Im 25, but the way I figure it.. life is short and one will be in debt regardless of whether it's mortgages, or cars.
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      11-21-2017, 07:56 AM   #106
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But the thing is; if get it wrong.. you're safe. if they are right.. you're in the same position as if you financed from the start. So.. where is the risk?
Let's see... would you lease a brand new Porsche GT3 even if you were to keep it for a couple years?

No, you wouldn't, almost no one would. The lease payments will be $2000+/month and you could sell it close to MSRP if in 2-3 years.

Before you knee-jerk post, why don't you think about what you are writing.
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      11-21-2017, 07:59 AM   #107
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Well, maybe it's because Im 25, but the way I figure it.. life is short and one will be in debt regardless of whether it's mortgages, or cars.
But you don't have to be. That's all a personal decision. I'm 28 and my wifes 22. We just paid off our house this year and own 4 cars outwright not including the vette I bought. It CAN be done. I choose to do it this way for my family incase anything ever happened to me, her and the kids wouldn't have to worry about a thing. Its all in how you look at it. Plus if either one of us ever lost our jobs, we wouldn't have to struggle. Hence why I like the security of not oweing anyone.
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      11-21-2017, 07:59 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
But the thing is; if get it wrong.. you're safe. if they are right.. you're in the same position as if you financed from the start. So.. where is the risk?
Let's see... would you lease a brand new Porsche GT3 even if you were to keep it for a couple years?

No, you wouldn't, almost no one would. The lease payments will be $2000+/month and you could sell it close to MSRP if in 2-3 years.

Before you knee-jerk post, why don't you think about what you are writing.
I did have a 14' GT3 and I didn't lease because the payments were higher than financing by 400 or 500 a month (terrible interest rate at the time). It was a great car, and I made money on it, hence why I have a 991.2 on order. I don't mind buying if I'm sure of the values and due to the fact that its a GT3.
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      11-21-2017, 08:02 AM   #109
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Well, maybe it's because Im 25, but the way I figure it.. life is short and one will be in debt regardless of whether it's mortgages, or cars.
But you don't have to be. That's all a personal decision. I'm 28 and my wifes 22. We just paid off our house this year and own 4 cars outwright not including the vette I bought. It CAN be done. I choose to do it this way for my family incase anything ever happened to me, her and the kids wouldn't have to worry about a thing. Its all in how you look at it.
Well, I guess what I'm trying to do is a risky growth strategy with my companies.. I was reading about Tesla earlier and how they take all their profits and put back into company to grow and I realized Im doing the exact same.

I just leave enough left to have a few toys on the side, but grow quickly. At the end of the day, its about how you change your life as you get older.
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      11-21-2017, 08:04 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
Well, I guess what I'm trying to do is a risky growth strategy with my companies.. I was reading about Tesla earlier and how they take all their profits and put back into company to grow and I realized Im doing the exact same.

I just leave enough left to have a few toys on the side, but grow quickly. At the end of the day, its about how you change your life as you get older.
Yea if you own companies then this is probably way different. I'm just a average blue collar worker and my wifes a nurse. While her job is more secure, mine isn't forever either but I currently make more than she does.
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