Rebuilt S63 - Misfire Help!

[DrVirz]

Hi all,

Ive just finished rebuilding my S63TU2 (2015 F85) and got it in the car. I bought the car with two spun big ends (2 and 6). The car runs (rough) and doesnt throw any codes, however the misfire counter on cyl 2 and 4 is constantly accumilating.

Things I have done:

ISTA
Reset adaptations
Valvetronic - Learn limits
Valvetronic - Lift adaptation (ista states the active valve lift value adaptation cannot be carried out, however allows passive live adapdation).
Vanos ABL - rotation is as expected.
Misfire Detection - Reports nothing, unusual?
Coded injectors (all 215)

Fuel rail pressures both sit at approx 10 MPa at idle
Fuel low pressure sits at approx 670 kPa

Swapped coils and plugs from various cylinders, still cyl 2 and 4 misfire counter accumilates. Also checked that I am actually getting spark on cyl 2 and 4, whcih I am.

Compression test, all cylinders are reading just about identical. Compression is low (125PSI) however thats becuase I cannot get the head of the compression tester right down to the spark plug seat, it sits a good way up before the bore tapers inwards.

Smoke tested intake, no leaks that I can see.

Smaller battery is brand new. Larger one is the one that came with the car, however I have swapped it with the battery from my 50i, no change.

I am yet to pull the injectors and test them, however they were all fine on dissasembly. I will get around to swapping cyl 2 and 4 injectors to 1 and 3.

I have posted some pics of ista readings, rough running values seem very high, I am assuming this is because of the misfire. Also, Knock signal cyl 4 is 15.35V while the remained are under 5V. I am not entirely sure how the knock system works, however this seems like an outlier.

From what I can tell, everything else reads as normal?

Only other thing to mention is I have an error for left fuel level sensor: Short curcuit to B+. Unusual as I didn't have this error prior to disassembly, I haven't looked too far into diagnosing it yet as I assume it is not related.

Any help is appreciated,

Cheers!

[MyF15+F85]

Stick to basics, don't panic !

It is hard to help, without seeing it all live, but

Brand new coils and spark plugs are a must ( eliminate the cheapest source of a fault ) does not matter if you think that they were OK before.

If that is all good then move to the next, how long did you run that engine ( minutes ? hours ? ) sometimes you may have an air bubble in the injector and it may take few minutes to flush it, just a thought .

Did you you get to operating temp ?

then you can address a simple issue as timing the engine, yes timing are you sure that everything is spot on ? Having cyl 2 and 4 could possibly indicate misalignment ( just a thought )

These are just basics. If the car ran good before the bearing spun, that would indicate indeed that everything should work now. however ... if it does not then you must trace the problem either to what You missed on reassembly or as simple as is there enough gas in the tank .

hope that helps

[DrVirz]

Ha! It's hard not to panick!

All the plugs are new, coils aren't however I have tried at least 2 other coils in cyl 2 and 4. I will check a few other things (injectors and probably timing) before I shell out for new coils!

I ran the car for about 15 mins in which it got to operating temp. This was when I was doing the passive Valvetronic lift adaption ABL.

I double and tripple checked the timing before I zipped the motor back up. If all else fails, will have to pull the valve covers and check it agian.

Thanks for your reply!

[Chilled]

Check your DME 1 (well double check all your plugs) connections are all fully and properly seated. That knock sensor based of the voltage is busted, but is it actually fully plugged in and behaving correctly?

The that knock sensor, the HPFP sensor, o2 sensors and more are all on the same plug A46*2B. Images in wrong order, but you get the idea.

[DrVirz]

I've checked Dme checked many times when I was dealing with a previous issue, definitely all plugged in. I'll have to get around to try and replacing the sensor, I have a spare here. Looks like it will be a tough job with the motor in the car.

A bit of an update, one step forward, two steps back kind of thing.
I swapped injector 3 and 4, no difference, still misfiring on 2 and 4. I decided to put some fresh fuel in (40L) as it turns out my tank was just about empty and putting fuel in got rid of the left fuel level sensor: Short curcuit to B+ error (I thought tank was showing empty becuase of this error on Ista). Anyway, started the car, same thing, cyl 2 and 4 misfires (only on DME counter, not throwing codes).

I reset all adaptations again then let the car idle for a couple of minutes. The counter was no longer showing misfires however it is still running rough at idle speed (idling at 675 RPM), and particuarly approx 850 RPM, engine is visibly shaking and can be felt in the car. If I accelerate to approx 1100 RPM it feels much smoother, then feels like it is missing again higher up (2500-3000ish). Rough running values for all cylinders are between -1 and +1 however jump around at various RPM (see video). After cycling through RPM range for a little bit, I checked misfire counter, and I had a single misfire on cyl 7.

Turn the car off, wait for a bit, then do much of the same. Now cyl 4 is showing misfires again, rough running values for all cylinders at idle back at between 5-10. However at approx 1100-1300RPM, it feels smooth and rough running values are back between -1 and +1. At various points, the misfire counter on 4 will stop, then start again.

I have upload a few videos to youtube in the links below.

https://youtube.com/shorts/O79zOQj9Ou8?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/xIMSAN-1jhI

Quite stumped here

[Chilled]

Is it just me or does it sound very rattlely around 900rpm in the first vid?

Also doing the meth on 125psi, I think that is way too low to say the cylinders are good. At 8 bar, that engine is dead.

I cant find the doco on but I remember reading that factory was around 12 -13bar.

[DrVirz]

You are spot on, at 900 rpm It is incredibly rough, the worst of the whole rev range.

It tested at 125psi as I couldn't get the fitting of my compression tester down to the spark plug seat (fitting too wide). So it had to sit up the spark bore, at the point where the bore tapers in, same point the coils taper in. There's a good chunk of volume there and therefore compression is reading low, however in reality it would be higher. I will cut some threads on some bar stock so I can get it right down to the plug seat.

Ista states that 10 - 16 bar is working range.

FYI it has brand new rings and block has been honed (lapped) with AN30.

[Chilled]

I did see the note on the fitment, just spitballing. If there was anything wrong with the compression. At 125psi, that wont show much. Is it worth buying a few diff kits from Amazon and then just returning the ones that dont fit?

btw, what was the ISTA article name/number for the compressions. I couldn't find one.


*Edit* Because of the honing, I'm guessing you didn't manage to find just a new block?

[DrVirz]

Yep good point, I will probably order a new one. ECS tuning has one for sale atm for $22 USD which isn't half bad.

The photo I took of my laptop when I had it open. Ill try and find it again to give you the actual reference

Yes thats correct, second hand block (from Greece). Slightly over spec but still well usable. Well and truly more in spec than my N63 I rebuilt.

I am going to buy a spark tester similar to the below to test the coils. Not sure how good of an indication it will give, but will hopefully show if any of the coils are low on power. (Even though I have swapped coils between cylinders etc)

https://www.repco.com.au/tools-equip...167/p/A9485434

[pachieh]

Sounds like my car when I put Dinan ignition coils on and they didn’t work right. Put old stock ones back on and it’s perfectly normal.

Only other thing on ignition I can think of it to check all the plug gaps to make sure they are all the same.

[Chilled]

I know its dumb, but have you checked the resistance of the coil wires all the way to the junction box and DME? Maybe the cabling got damaged somehow, considering you swap coils, plugs and injectors.

[DrVirz]

In all honesty, I just eyeballed the spark plug gaps (dumb I know). I will definitely measure them tomorrow, but again I have swapped plugs (and coils) between multiple cylinders with no luck. As for coils, interesting regarding the Dinan coils. I had a quick browse at coils today, theres a lot of aftermarket options that claim higher powered spark, but I think I will get a set of standard Bosch to be sure.

I have only tested continuity, not resistance. However good idea, I will also do this tomorrow on all 8 coil plugs back to DME plug.

[Trion_f85]

I strongly believe its the vanos solenoids they misbehave if not brand new after rebuild and can cause such misfires, also you can switch camshaft position sensors between banks and see if misfire switches to bank2

You mentioned they are no codes at all?

[DrVirz]

I initially had the same thought. When I rebuilt an N63 for my 50i, the vanos solenoids were no good and causing misfires, only difference was it was throwing codes.

With the x5m, there's no codes at all!! The vanos abl also shows that the rotation is as expected. I'll try and swap a cam angle sensor and see if it makes a difference.

The vanos solenoids are definitely on my list of suspects, but I think I want to properly inspect fuel and spark firsrt. Unfortunately I don't have an osicilliscope so I cannot inspect the the ignition waveform.

I can get the injectors tested for $50 (AUD) or new injectors for approx $110 AUD. So tossing up between the two at the moment. Wouldn't surprise me if they had a bad spray pattern or flow. But then again, I have swapped them between cylinders!!!

[Chilled]

Wow, where are you getting new injectors at $110AUD? Just looked at the Aus RRP, and its $1200 for the E70s, and $800 for the F85s. And I just realised the diagram i linked was for a F85, not e70.

One very dumb idea to test the vanos solenoids. Send 12v down the harness on the vanos pins and have a listen. If it's a very slow/muted click, the solenoids is out/needs some cleaning.
Prob would easier than tearing the coolers off, or can you get to the vanos plugs with them on?

[DrVirz]

That's correct, the car is an F85. My bio still says E70, I need to update it!

Injectors are from ECS tuning, Bosch. I never buy anything from BMW Sydney, the prices are ridiculous. Link below for reference.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bosch-pa...538627842~bos/

I have tested the solenoids with 12v before I put them in the car, I also cleaned them in diesel and actuated them a heap of times etc.

HOWEVER, very important to note re verifying the vanos solenoids by listening to the actuation when you supply with 12 v... I did this for all 4 of the solenoids on my e70, prior to cleaning them you could barely hear them actuate, after cleaning they were a nice audible loud click. So I put them in the car, and they're no good. It took me a while, after testing just about everything else (including timing which is a PITA to do on an N63 in an E70 with motor in the car), to decide to put new solenoids in it.

When I pulled the solenoids and compared with the new, the actuation sounded and felt exactly the same! Since, I've never relied on the audible sound or click to verify if vanos solenoids are still good.

[Chilled]

Ahh, I only quick checked the BMW branded and those were like $400-ish USD. Check out FCP, they are bit pricier but aren't dicks about shipping when you buy multiple things. I found ECS will charge extra for every little thing, whereas FCP only add $$ if they need to up the box.

Plus the courier FCP use is good, compared to the junk ECS use for their cheapest option. Lost multiple items and very slow delivery times.

Good point on the solenoids sounds.

[Trion_f85]

Originally Posted by DrVirz

The vanos solenoids are definitely on my list of suspects, but I think I want to properly inspect fuel and spark firsrt. Unfortunately I don't have an osicilliscope so I cannot inspect the the ignition waveform.

Faulty injectors will definitely throw a check engine and drivetrain malfunction.
I will still go with brand new solenoid valves and spark plugs if i were you. Thats if i’m 100% sure on timing. Goodluck though sure things can be stressful

Maybe a video with the rpm view will be better for us coz the sound isnt really clear in your videos.

[DrVirz]

Been busy the last few days so haven't had a chance to do much.

One thing I did check was vanos rotation value on both banks when idling, see photos. Theres approx a 10 degree difference on Intake rotation Bank 1 (-30 deg at idle) and Bank 2 (-20 deg at idle). Anyone happen to know what the values should be? FYI no misfire counter and rough running values all -1 to 1

I will try and get a video with RPM view with my laptop near the rear of the car, may be able to hear it better. I will log

[Chilled]

Had a look at mine, on a cold start and idle down. It had about a 7° difference for the intake between the banks. No vibrations but am starting to get slightly concerned.

Just like yours, bank 2 was lower.

Took a vid, mad a gif.

View post on imgur.com

[DrVirz]

Hmm, interesting...

I haven't had a chance to do anything else on the car. However, I did order 4 new vanos solenoids, so as soon as they arrive I will report back!

[Chilled]

any luck?