3rd time in for alignment. Anybody have experience with lemon law in CA?

[tazma61]

So, the car has had alignment issue since I got the car in August. First attempt was futile and they replaced a wishbone on the second try. The steering wheel is tilted to the right when driving straight and to keep it straight, I have to constantly adjust the steering wheel. I took it back to the same dealership and they told me that they will not perform another alignment unless I pay for it since the car is now over 3k miles.

Any suggestion on the next step if my phone call with BMW NA ends in no resolution?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

[Yaw]

So the car would not drive straight from new? Do you have alignment spec sheet pre and post alignment? Get that so you can have an informed conversation with BMW NA.

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by Yaw

So the car would not drive straight from new? Do you have alignment spec sheet pre and post alignment? Get that so you can have an informed conversation with BMW NA.

Yup, I have all the paperwork. I kept it just in case this would happen. I have never really had a good experience with BMW dealership mechanics in the past.

I am currently waiting for a call back from BMW NA case manager.

Hopefully the case manager can help me solve this so I don't have to go through the trouble with a Lemon Law claim.

[tazma61]

The case manager called me and the first thing he said was that alignment was not covered under warranty. Then as I explained my situation with the replacement of a wishbone, he changed his tune and said he will contact the service manager of the dealership. So it's just a waiting game.

About 30 minutes later, a representative from the X5 factory called and asked me how I was enjoying my new X5. I also explained to her the situation, and she said she would escalate the situation from her end and call me back later with an update.

Interesting turn of events so far...

[speedracerlo]

how bad was the tilt? any photos?

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by speedracerlo

how bad was the tilt? any photos?

That's going straight

[ano0oj]

In my experience...the people doing alignments at BMW don't know the definition of straight. I had to explain to the service manager that my wheel is off maybe 1degree from straight, his answer? "Everyone's idea of straight is different." Got another service adviser next time and explained him the situation very frankly, alignment came out perfect last month!

Also, I would definitely escalate your situation as high as possible...BMW not giving you a car that goes straight from the get-go seems like an obvious responsibility on their part.

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

In my experience...the people doing alignments at BMW don't know the definition of straight. I had to explain to the service manager that my wheel is off maybe 1degree from straight, his answer? "Everyone's idea of straight is different." Got another service adviser next time and explained him the situation very frankly, alignment came out perfect last month!

Also, I would definitely escalate your situation as high as possible...BMW not giving you a car that goes straight from the get-go seems like an obvious responsibility on their part.

[TOPEC]

thats pretty bad considering this is the 3rd time and they still cannot align it properly. a few possibilities

a) dealer mechanics r incompetent, doesnt know how to perform an alignment or use the alignment machine
b) the machine itself is miscalculated, leading to correct readings
c) something is bent, be it control arms, or maybe even ur subframe being bent/misaligned

if i were u, i would escalate this issue higher and higher up the management chain until it is properly fixed stressing to them that this is a safety and hazzardous issue. also go out to a reputable performance shop and have them put it on the alignment machine to get the readings, do not have them adjust or fix anything, just purely get the readings only. this can both prove the car is misaligned and the dealer's machine is out of spec if the alignment print out the dealer is giving u shows everything is in spec. of course this is out of ur own pocket, but im sure if u prove dealer wrong they should be reimbursing u. have the car checked for bent/misaligned parts while ur at it.

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

thats pretty bad considering this is the 3rd time and they still cannot align it properly. a few possibilities

a) dealer mechanics r incompetent, doesnt know how to perform an alignment or use the alignment machine
b) the machine itself is miscalculated, leading to correct readings
c) something is bent, be it control arms, or maybe even ur subframe being bent/misaligned

if i were u, i would escalate this issue higher and higher up the management chain until it is properly fixed stressing to them that this is a safety and hazzardous issue. also go out to a reputable performance shop and have them put it on the alignment machine to get the readings, do not have them adjust or fix anything, just purely get the readings only. this can both prove the car is misaligned and the dealer's machine is out of spec if the alignment print out the dealer is giving u shows everything is in spec. of course this is out of ur own pocket, but im sure if u prove dealer wrong they should be reimbursing u. have the car checked for bent/misaligned parts while ur at it.

I'm not quite sure how to escalate the issue higher up the management...

[MochiEater]

Originally Posted by tazma61

I'm not quite sure how to escalate the issue higher up the management...

You do not have an "alignment" problem. Until proven otherwise, your position should be that your new car that came from the factory with "defective steering". It could be that the car came from the factory with an out of spec frame and can never be correctly aligned. That it cannot be aligned is just a symptom of the underlying issue.

That said, you need to get the BMW regional representative (aka zone rep) involved. This is a non-customer facing person whose job is to interface between BMW and the dealerships. Work it from both sides. Tell the dealership service manager that you want to bring in the regional rep and speak to them. Tell BMW NA you want the contact info for their regional rep directly and get them involved. You will not be able to speak to or contact the rep directly, but they will become involved. Also, tell the dealership and BMW that you think this may qualify under your state lemon law. Usually the initial lawyer consult is free and part of a successful claim may include lawyer fees.

[qocerhuang]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

thats pretty bad considering this is the 3rd time and they still cannot align it properly. a few possibilities

a) dealer mechanics r incompetent, doesnt know how to perform an alignment or use the alignment machine
b) the machine itself is miscalculated, leading to correct readings
c) something is bent, be it control arms, or maybe even ur subframe being bent/misaligned

if i were u, i would escalate this issue higher and higher up the management chain until it is properly fixed stressing to them that this is a safety and hazzardous issue. also go out to a reputable performance shop and have them put it on the alignment machine to get the readings, do not have them adjust or fix anything, just purely get the readings only. this can both prove the car is misaligned and the dealer's machine is out of spec if the alignment print out the dealer is giving u shows everything is in spec. of course this is out of ur own pocket, but im sure if u prove dealer wrong they should be reimbursing u. have the car checked for bent/misaligned parts while ur at it.

This is very good point.

[tazma61]

I called BMW NA again this morning, and it seems like the case manager did not really take me seriously. He did not leave any notes and didn't really follow up.

Speaking with a representative, I used the words "Steering Defect" (thank you MochiEater) and the tune kind of changed. The representative wrote out the whole chain of events and is sending it up to a case supervisor. I did mention that I spoke with a lemon law attorney, and as soon as I said that, she asked me what I wanted. So I told her that either they get me into a new car or I keep the car and take it to another dealer/shop and they reimburse me for my time and frustration.

Waiting to see what happens...

[Keithwand]

I got a new steering column and my steering wheel was centered when it went in and is now the opposite of the picture; dipping down on the left.
The X5 still goes straight but the wheel is annoying.
This is not a Yugo!

[ted99]

Lemon law is a last resort. Once you file that, BMW closes up and there is NO cooperation in resolving the problem.

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by ted99

Lemon law is a last resort. Once you file that, BMW closes up and there is NO cooperation in resolving the problem.

Do you think it was a mistake for me to have said that I spoke with a Lemon Law Attorney? They did ask me if I was represented, and I told the person that I consulted but I am NOT represented.

[leasehackr]

Originally Posted by tazma61

Do you think it was a mistake for me to have said that I spoke with a Lemon Law Attorney? They did ask me if I was represented, and I told the person that I consulted but I am NOT represented.

Are you on another forum?

There is reputed fester named "ard". Search and ask his advice. He will give you best device what to say or not to BMW NA. He has done lemon several times successfully.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

[tazma61]

So, my SA called me and said the car was ready. They checked all the suspension and steering components to see if they were in spec. They checked the alignment and it is all within spec. They re-calibrated the steering wheel angle sensor/ motor and said that fixed the problem.

I got the car back, drove it out of the lot, and drove it right back.
It was exactly the same. They didn't fix it at all.

I got my SA to sit in with me while driving the car (since the foreman said he was too busy to go for the drive since he was in a "meeting") and he was able to see and validate how the steering wheel is still tilted to the right.

The BMW engineer will be visiting the dealership tomorrow, so he will take it for a drive and try to figure out how and if the problem can be fixed.

This is the 4th time going back to the dealership for the same problem.

I think I now have a pretty solid case to file a Lemon Law claim... what do you guys suggest?

I would really like to try to work with the BMW engineer and corporate before I end up having to file a lemon law claim...

[TOPEC]

i find it weird how they chose to replace a wishbone.

dealer cannot align car properly or bring it within spec, thinks wishbone is the problem, replaces wishbone, same issue, so its not the wishbone that is the cause of the issue, its what the wishbone is attached to, re: subframe, that is possibly bent/misaligned

like i said before, either something is bent with ur car, or something is wrong with the dealers alignment machine where it shows the car is aligned properly when the car's actual real world alignment is not, or both.

[rhite95]

subscribing..

Hope it works out for you !!

[Yaw]

If there is nothing else wrong with the car other than this and you like it just stick with it until it gets sorted out. Alignment racks get used incorrectly all the time from lack of training, lack of caring or both. Let them fix it then find another place to work on your car.

[tazma61]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

i find it weird how they chose to replace a wishbone.

dealer cannot align car properly or bring it within spec, thinks wishbone is the problem, replaces wishbone, same issue, so its not the wishbone that is the cause of the issue, its what the wishbone is attached to, re: subframe, that is possibly bent/misaligned

like i said before, either something is bent with ur car, or something is wrong with the dealers alignment machine where it shows the car is aligned properly when the car's actual real world alignment is not, or both.

To sort this out: Initially, the car was pulling the right. So I had to tilt the steering wheel to the left to go straight. When they replaced the wish bone, the car drove straight, but the steering wheel is now tilted to the right and the steering has more play in it.

Originally Posted by Yaw

If there is nothing else wrong with the car other than this and you like it just stick with it until it gets sorted out. Alignment racks get used incorrectly all the time from lack of training, lack of caring or both. Let them fix it then find another place to work on your car.

I would love to just keep the car, but if it is a problem with suspension components, and or misaligned frame, the problem will never be fixed.

You are right that these mechanics and the shop foreman do not really care about the customer's cars. They just keep telling me "it's been fixed, the foreman signed off on the car" but the problem is not fixed, and it seems like even these foreman do not know what it means for a car to have non-tilted steering wheel when the car is driving straight.