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      Yesterday, 06:21 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Of course he "identified" as such - he dared not, in largely Catholic Germany. But if you read the things he wrote, etc., much less how he persecuted the churches, he clearly had his own agenda.
No True Scotsman now? What about the vast majority of other Nazis that were undoubtedly Christian? Not that I'm buying the argument about Hitler himself, mind you. He was unarguably raised as a Catholic.

Lots of religious/faithful folks have big problems with churches, as well. Certainly more so when you are competing with them for... ahem.... leadership.



On the topic of the rest of the Nazis:

Hitler’s interpretation of the gospels resulted in something dubbed “positive Christianity,” which made its way into Article 24 of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform:

We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not jeopardize the state's existence or conflict with the manners and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The Party as such upholds the point of view of a positive Christianity without tying itself confessionally to any one confession. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit at home and abroad and is convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only be achieved from within on the basis of the common good before individual good.


http://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/...t-probably-not

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      Yesterday, 06:24 PM   #68
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"Held without their parents knowledge..."

Not different.

That doesn't indicate their parents were with them. Could very easily be without their parent's (who happen to be back home in Ol' Mexico) knowledge. Conversely, the parents in question today definitely know their children are being detained, because they are also being detained.

Yes, quite likely very different.

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      Yesterday, 07:16 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Of course he "identified" as such - he dared not, in largely Catholic Germany. But if you read the things he wrote, etc., much less how he persecuted the churches, he clearly had his own agenda.
No True Scotsman now? What about the vast majority of other Nazis that were undoubtedly Christian? Not that I'm buying the argument about Hitler himself, mind you. He was unarguably raised as a Catholic.

Lots of religious/faithful folks have big problems with churches, as well. Certainly more so when you are competing with them for... ahem.... leadership.



On the topic of the rest of the Nazis:

Hitler's interpretation of the gospels resulted in something dubbed "positive Christianity," which made its way into Article 24 of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform:

We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not jeopardize the state's existence or conflict with the manners and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The Party as such upholds the point of view of a positive Christianity without tying itself confessionally to any one confession. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit at home and abroad and is convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only be achieved from within on the basis of the common good before individual good.


http://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/...t-probably-not
Not sure of your point here, but that statement shows that they held the state higher than faith/religion/church - which proves they were not Christian, yet trying to co-opt Christians.

In Nazi germany, everyone was a part of the Nazi party, or their lives were hell and they disappeared.
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      Yesterday, 07:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
"Held without their parents knowledge..."

Not different.

That doesn't indicate their parents were with them. Could very easily be without their parent's (who happen to be back home in Ol' Mexico) knowledge. Conversely, the parents in question today definitely know their children are being detained, because they are also being detained.

Yes, quite likely very different.
The point being that their parents were not notified in the 2015 case either.
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      Today, 08:46 AM   #71
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The point being that their parents were not notified in the 2015 case either.
That's not the issue here, though. The outrage is about the forced separation, not whether the parents were informed.



Apples and oranges.

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      Today, 08:54 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure of your point here, but that statement shows that they held the state higher than faith/religion/church - which proves they were not Christian, yet trying to co-opt Christians.

In Nazi germany, everyone was a part of the Nazi party, or their lives were hell and they disappeared.
So... No True Scotsman, got it.

Hitler said he was a Christian. Hitler was raised Catholic. The vast majority of Nazis self-identified as Christians. They went so far as to include Christianity as part one of their political planks in 1920.

But they were all atheists because..... you say so?
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      Today, 09:52 AM   #73
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure of your point here, but that statement shows that they held the state higher than faith/religion/church - which proves they were not Christian, yet trying to co-opt Christians.

In Nazi germany, everyone was a part of the Nazi party, or their lives were hell and they disappeared.
So... No True Scotsman, got it.

Hitler said he was a Christian. Hitler was raised Catholic. The vast majority of Nazis self-identified as Christians. They went so far as to include Christianity as part one of their political planks in 1920.

But they were all atheists because..... you say so?
Many atheists were raised in churches, btw. The substance of Hitler's "religion" is widely discussed on the internet and elsewhere, with no definite conclusion. One has to simply look at his/their actions to conclude they weren't pursuing the goals defined in a Judeo-Christian pursuit.
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      Today, 11:15 AM   #74
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Many atheists were raised in churches, btw. The substance of Hitler's "religion" is widely discussed on the internet and elsewhere, with no definite conclusion. One has to simply look at his/their actions to conclude they weren't pursuing the goals defined in a Judeo-Christian pursuit.
Right, no definite conclusion beyond what they self-identified as. Who are you, or me, to say otherwise?

Being a Christian and "pursuing the goals defined in a Judeo-Christian pursuit" are two very different things. That's my point.

Everyone sins, right? So, as soon as you sin you're not actually a Christian any longer? This is sounding more and more like "No True Scotsman".
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      Today, 11:16 AM   #75
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Many atheists were raised in churches, btw...
I know, I am one.
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