Your Transmission Fluid is NOT "LIFETIME"

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by smyles

My intent is not to change your mind, but to get to the root cause of the problem you had; not because I care that much, but because you used your situation to prove a point, which potentially force many to spend unnecessarily spend $$$ and sometimes do more harm than good (flushing is a perfect example of such). Since it appears you don't/didn't have a complete diagnostics done (or available), there's nothing left to discuss.

Do you really think changing the oil, at the manufacturers reccomend interval, will cause more harm then good? Do you really think saving 300 dollars every 75 thousand miles is worth the risk of a 10 thousand dollar transmission replacement cost?

For those that travel with Family, kids, loved ones, are you absolutely so stead-fast in your BMW marketing fandom that you will tell them to IGNORE the ZF reccomended maintenance, knowing that with high probability cause a pre-mature transmission malfunction and create a very unsafe situation for their family and those on the road around them?

If that is who you are, do us all favor and leave this thread, you are only making yourself look a fool.

[turboawd]

When i changed my fluid at 75k it was very dark. Whereas when I change the fluid on my chevy truck with same miles and lots of heavy towing, the fluid is still relatively clear. Not sure what causes the fluid to get so dark in the zf trans.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by smyles

My intent is not to change your mind, but to get to the root cause of the problem you had; not because I care that much, but because you used your situation to prove a point, which potentially force many to spend unnecessarily spend $$$ and sometimes do more harm than good (flushing is a perfect example of such). Since it appears you don't/didn't have a complete diagnostics done (or available), there's nothing left to discuss.

Yes I took it in, they couldn't explain why the lurching other than high milage as their was no codes present, dealers are sometimes clueless and only like swapping parts with new ones or if a part completely fails.

Then after asking since it was high milage if changing the fluid would help, they said you don't need to change the fluid, but if i insisted they would perform a flush as it was the best way to change the fluid and clean the trans.


I said let's do it as it's the cheapest way to at least get things clean and start their.

After the flush it was a different trans and performed perfect for 50k miles till it was taken from me.

So as far as I'm concerned the fluid change made the difference and I'm sold on that it makes a difference as i had first hand experience with it.

Their is always a risk that their may be issues with doing a flush or change as it may knock something loose and cause issues and plug journals and that's why my dealer at least doesn't like doing trans fluid changes unless it's absolutely necessary.

If you wait to long they won't do to regardless as it can cause problems.

[turboawd]

Originally Posted by -c-

Yes I took it in, they couldn't explain why the lurching other than high milage as their was no codes present, dealers are sometimes clueless and only like swapping parts with new ones or if a part completely fails.

Then after asking since it was high milage if changing the fluid would help, they said you don't need to change the fluid, but if i insisted they would perform a flush as it was the best way to change the fluid and clean the trans.


I said let's do it as it's the cheapest way to at least get things clean and start their.

After the flush it was a different trans and performed perfect for 50k miles till it was taken from me.

So as far as I'm concerned the fluid change made the difference and I'm sold on that it makes a difference as i had first hand experience with it.

Their is always a risk that their may be issues with doing a flush or change as it may knock something loose and cause issues and plug journals and that's why my dealer at least doesn't like doing trans fluid changes unless it's absolutely necessary.

If you wait to long they won't do to regardless as it can cause problems.

Those who don't know how a trans works, think the fluid just lubricates. It does a lot more and mainly acts as a hydraulic fluid. The fluid is pumped and pressurized, and then sent through the valve body and to all the pistons that pressurize the various clutch packs. You want clean fluid so everything moves smoothly.

[alphaod]

I did mine at 50k, for the peace of mind. Whether or not it extends the life my transmission, I can't say. And it doesn't seem to make it any smoother.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by alphaod

I did mine at 50k, for the peace of mind. Whether or not it extends the life my transmission, I can't say. And it doesn't seem to make it any smoother.

Yea mine was at 100k but that's 25k over the recommended service interval so with mine at least made a difference.

Drove great for 50k till the dealer blew my motor.

It's just like when people change their oil at 5k vs waiting till 10k

To them it makes a difference, I like clean oil and a clean engine so I change mine at 5k always and since it's recorded hopefully the next owner will appreciate the sooner change intervals.


Either way all one can do is present the facts and information provided and make their own educated decision on what works best for them.

[bmwx3805]

I'm getting the transmission fluid, front and rear differential fluid done in February . My 14x5 35xi currently has 48,000 miles . So I thought it was perfect timing .

[pwrdbym]

I posted pictures of my fluid from the tranny at 98k miles. If anyone thinks that stuff was still lubricating properly......

I'll also mention the front/rear diff and transfer case should fall under the same schedule.

https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1639922

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pwrdbym

I posted pictures of my fluid from the tranny at 98k miles. If anyone thinks that stuff was still lubricating properly......

I'll also mention the front/rear diff and transfer case should fall under the same schedule.

https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1639922

Nice write-up and good points on the Transfer Case and diffs.

Jealous of your lift!!

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Nice write-up and good points on the Transfer Case and diffs.

Jealous of your lift!!

Very good points indeed. Clearly there’s the fiction and the reality with respect to maintenance of the transmission.

[1norseman]

Since I wanted to know ZF's thoughts on this subject, I contacted them. Got this reply:

Dear .....,

the following solution has been found for your request:

Hello, Thanks for contacting ZF in regard to your transmission and fluid change intervals. Yes there has been much discussion about fluid change, so much so that now we have an official statement which we can provide.

ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.

So they recommend changing it at around 93,000 miles, or less...

I did not get a reply to my question of if they recommended a flush of the system? Or just replace the fluid and not worry about the 20% or so, that won't come out when draining.
So I replied, have wait and see if I can get an answer to that also.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1norseman

Since I wanted to know ZF's thoughts on this subject, I contacted them. Got this reply:

Dear .....,

the following solution has been found for your request:

Hello, Thanks for contacting ZF in regard to your transmission and fluid change intervals. Yes there has been much discussion about fluid change, so much so that now we have an official statement which we can provide.

ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.

So they recommend changing it at around 93,000 miles, or less...

I did not get a reply to my question of if they recommended a flush of the system? Or just replace the fluid and not worry about the 20% or so, that won't come out when draining.
So I replied, have wait and see if I can get an answer to that also.

The ZF8 holds about 9 liters, when you do a oil change, you only have access to approx 4.5 liters. If you loosen the valve body, you will get approx another 2 liters out for a more complete change.

Unless someone beats me too it, I plan on making a video on this as while its pretty easy to loosen the valve body, the torque sequence and and spec are critical, not to mention people new to working on transmission might get over-zealous and loosen the bolts that hold the valve body itself together.

There is a Mechatronic sleeve for the B-Clutch behind the valve body, it would be intersting to know ZF stance on this on when it should be changed. On the ZF6, its mechatronic sleeves were notorious for causing issues past 120K

[menelaos]

Originally Posted by 1norseman

Since I wanted to know ZF's thoughts on this subject, I contacted them. Got this reply:

Dear .....,

the following solution has been found for your request:

Hello, Thanks for contacting ZF in regard to your transmission and fluid change intervals. Yes there has been much discussion about fluid change, so much so that now we have an official statement which we can provide.

ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.

So they recommend changing it at around 93,000 miles, or less...

I did not get a reply to my question of if they recommended a flush of the system? Or just replace the fluid and not worry about the 20% or so, that won't come out when draining.
So I replied, have wait and see if I can get an answer to that also.

All this controversy over 7K miles btw ZF8 manufacturer and BMW "lifetime" recommendation of 100K miles!!!??

Not worth the keystrokes folks!

[aataulla]

Originally Posted by 1norseman

Since I wanted to know ZF's thoughts on this subject, I contacted them. Got this reply:

Dear .....,

the following solution has been found for your request:

Hello, Thanks for contacting ZF in regard to your transmission and fluid change intervals. Yes there has been much discussion about fluid change, so much so that now we have an official statement which we can provide.

ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.

So they recommend changing it at around 93,000 miles, or less...

I did not get a reply to my question of if they recommended a flush of the system? Or just replace the fluid and not worry about the 20% or so, that won't come out when draining.
So I replied, have wait and see if I can get an answer to that also.

Sooo wait is everyone going to ignore the first sentence of what they said: "ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil...." Even if your car doesn't fit the "general" case it's a recommendation. Just how special is your x5 to you from the average x5?

"Generally" these cars go from home to office to Costco parking lots. They don't tow, see neutral drops, track days etc. Generally they're worthless after 150k miles anyway. So generally you'll be fine as your 40k car goes down to zero in value.

Not my words but from ZF you can read it all or simply ignore the part you don't like. Suure change it if you're worried about previous history but gosh even zf says you guys need to calm down.... However the thread will continue and many like this in other forums because its all marketing BS rite and gosh your transmission is special because it doesn't fit the "typical/general" scenario. First it was BMW but maybe now its marketing bs from ZF. They're likely lying about 93k miles too because they really want you to buy more transmissions fluids and transmission filters at the very least from them. Or maybe this conspiracy goes deeper and they're in bed with BMW and German industrial power house.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by aataulla

Sooo wait is everyone going to ignore the first sentence of what they said: "ZF transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil...." Even if your car doesn't fit the "general" case it's a recommendation. Just how special is your x5 to you from the average x5?

"Generally" these cars go from home to office to Costco parking lots. They don't tow, see neutral drops, track days etc. Generally they're worthless after 150k miles anyway. So generally you'll be fine as your 40k car goes down to zero in value.

Not my words but from ZF you can read it all or simply ignore the part you don't like. Suure change it if you're worried about previous history but gosh even zf says you guys need to calm down.... However the thread will continue and many like this in other forums because its all marketing BS rite and gosh your transmission is special because it doesn't fit the "typical/general" scenario. First it was BMW but maybe now its marketing bs from ZF. They're likely lying about 93k miles too because they really want you to buy more transmissions fluids and transmission filters at the very least from them. Or maybe this conspiracy goes deeper and they're in bed with BMW and German industrial power house.

Dude just give up or at the very least follow your own advice and stop ignoring the part you dont like: "However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals."

This is why both their OFFICIAL written Guideline tells you to change at 50-75K and their video, which you obliviously failed to watch, calls out BMW directly on their lie telling people not to service the transmission.

Its really easy to understand: 50K for extreme (towing, M) 75K if you are an enthusiast/preventative maintenance, 93K or 8 years if you absolutely want to get every mile out of the oil.

Was it marketing BS when my Transmission fault hit out at 115k coming downhill in traffic on a windy mountain road that was traced to oil well passed it serviced life that caused increase wear and eventually the failure? Was it marketing BS when it almost caused a accident when I had to get off the road as quickly as possible? Was it marketing BS the sheer look of terror and shock on my family of what just happened and how we all could have been killed?

Your not only an idiot, but a dangerous one at that, actively going against the manufactures recommendation that can have severe safety consequences (not to mention 10grand for a new transmission). I have first hand knowledge of how dangerous a transmission that faults on you can be, many of us here drive with our family and if a simple oil change can prevent a catastrophic failure, then that is their right to do it. Some moron like you touting "Bah they are all shit after 100K anyway, who cares?" is not helping anyone. You must be beyond bored in your life for a damn simple oil change recommended by the manufacture to bother you so much.

You don't want to change your oil, fine go right ahead. The rest of us that actually care about cars and the safety of our vehicles do. The manufacture has repeatedly said you need to change the oil. You are on the loosing team my friend. Lets just cut right to it shall we? Your to damn lazy to change your oil and this is making you second guess yourself, thats cool but don't take your baggage out here. Go troll another thread.

[aataulla]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Dude just give up or at the very least follow your own advice and stop ignoring the part you dont like: However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.

This is why both their OFFICIAL written Guideline tells you to change at 50-75K and their video, which you obliviously failed to watch, calls out BMW directly on their lie telling people not to service the transmission.

Its really easy to understand: 50K for extreme (towing, M) 75K if you are an enthusiast, 93K or 8 years if you absolutely want to get every mile out of the oil.

Was it marketing BS when my Transmission fault hit out at 115k coming downhill in traffic on a windy mountain road that was traced to oil well passed it serviced life that caused increase wear and eventually the failure? Your not only an idiot, but a dangerous one at that actively going against the manufactures recommendation. I have first hand knowledge of how dangerous at transmission that faults on you can be, and this is something that can greatly be diminished if not outright eliminated by a simple oil change that the thought just drives you crazy for some stupid reason.

You don't want to change your oil, fine go right ahead. The rest of us that actually care about cars and the safety of our vehicles do. The manufacture has repeatedly said you need to change the oil. You are on the loosing team my friend.

Ok bro you're right. ZF says you must change fluid by 93k miles or your transmission will be toast.

You win and I am wrong.

[Twin Peaks]

I had my front, rear diff and trans flushed awhile back. I also sent a trans oil sample into Blackstone with no abnormal results at 64k. I don't regret it and may do it again if I decide to keep the car past 80k at 90k maybe. I am not a lifetime kool aid drinker .

[Rydogg21]

Not even sure what there is to argue about here?

I agree with ZF on the timing of the oil change so I did the trans oil/pan, transfer case oil, front and rear diffs amongst other things at 60K. I elected to spend my monies and time completing the work for the piece of mind. Gained 3mpg on Avg after the change so that was nice but all fluids looked healthy the the eye.

Each owner should make decisions on when/what they do to their vehicle...no right or wrong answer when its your property. Just my take and there is no doubt that BMW does not want the additional cost so they determine whatever interval suits their interests.

[KCTiger]

Originally Posted by Rydogg21

Not even sure what there is to argue about here?

I agree with ZF on the timing of the oil change so I did the trans oil/pan, transfer case oil, front and rear diffs amongst other things at 60K. I elected to spend my monies and time completing the work for the piece of mind. Gained 3mpg on Avg after the change so that was nice but all fluids looked healthy the the eye.

Each owner should make decisions on when/what they do to their vehicle...no right or wrong answer when its your property. Just my take and there is no doubt that BMW does not want the additional cost so they determine whatever interval suits their interests.

Did you notice any improvements to shifting? Did you reset adaptations?

That increase to mpg is unexpected but I certainly am not one to doubt you.

[rok2774]

Anyone know approx cost for a trans fluid flush at dealer / indy?

[KCTiger]

Originally Posted by rok2774

Anyone know approx cost for a trans fluid flush at dealer / indy?

I am having it done in a week or so. 168 for the fluid, 330 for the pan filter and gaskets, 156 for labor. Just shy of $500. This is an indy shop.

[menelaos]

Originally Posted by KCTiger

I am having it done in a week or so. 168 for the fluid, 330 for the pan filter and gaskets, 156 for labor. Just shy of $500. This is an indy shop.

Hmm.. Thought I was quoted 1K for those two... By two independent shops.