Front Control Arm Diagnosis Hell

[M302_imola]

I've been trying to diagnosis a "creaking" sound coming from the front passenger side suspension for 3-4 months now, and I'm about ready to drive my X5 off a cliff. I hear the sound at very low speeds. It first started sounding like the strut mount was loose and now has progressed to a "creaking" sound. On top of that the car feels very loose under light cornering load and will often trigger the traction control light. It's a very uneasy feeling when the traction control intervenes. Here's what I've replaced since the sound emerged:

- BC Racing coilovers (I thought my OEM strut or strut mount was bad so instead of paying $600 for 2 new front struts I paid $1K for the coilovers for all 4 corners.
- Both drivers and passenger side Upper control arm assembly (#19 on diagram)
- Passenger side lower forward control arm (#8 on diagram)
- Passenger side axle cv boot replacement

So I have yet to replace #8 on the diagram so this would be the next logical step but I've already thrown so much money at this issue my fear is this won't fix my probs. I could see that bushing going bad causing the creaking sound but would it be enough to trigger traction control??? What about sway bar bushings? Do these commonly go bad? I've had a mechanic take a ride w/ me and hear what I'm talking about, but he said he couldn't duplicate the sound once on the lift. He claims all the bushings checked out except there was a touch of excessive movement in the forward FCA (#8) when he torqued it with a pry bar. So he replaced that last week and still the sound plus traction control issue persists. What would you guys do in my shoes?

I'd love to hear from guys that have had FCA (#13) replaced and what kind of issues were present before the arm was replaced.

'15 X5 35i X-drive 102K miles

[crystalworks]

Just so we're all on the same page. This is the diagram you are referring to I think? How many miles are on your X5?

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Just so we're all on the same page. This is the diagram you are referring to I think? How many miles are on your X5?

Yeah man, I'm sorry. I just realized I forgot to attach. I edited and fixed it now. Good catch.

[Ascotgrun]

Sway bar issue is easy to eliminate. Just disconnect the drop links then take a drive to see if the noise is still present.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by Ascotgrun

Sway bar issue is easy to eliminate. Just disconnect the drop links then take a drive to see if the noise is still present.

Good call, I'll try that.

[M302_imola]

Anything bad about this brand? https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/DL-31126864822

It's significantly cheaper than OEM.

[Ascotgrun]

Don't have any experience with that brand but Rock Auto has it for $48 . Think I would get the Moog for $55 though based on nothing more than brand familiarity.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by Ascotgrun

Don't have any experience with that brand but Rock Auto has it for $48 . Think I would get the Moog for $55 though based on nothing more than brand familiarity.

Good looking out!

[crystalworks]

Do you have a video of the creak/groan?

On suspensions I only buy from FCP Euro for their lifetime replacement guarantee and only buy Meyle, Lemforder, Febi, or Bilstein unless there was a different specific OEM supplier for a given part that is cheaper than genuine. But 99% of the time, I go with Meyle or Lemforder.

My philosophy on suspensions is when one part fails, they'll all fail one after the other in short order. To avoid the death by a thousand cuts I do the entire front or rear (whichever suffered a failure) all at one time. Avoids headaches with diagnosis usually and gives another 80-100k miles of quiet BMW handling. DIY'ing it usually runs ~$900 including an alignment.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Do you have a video of the creak/groan?

On suspensions I only buy from FCP Euro for their lifetime replacement guarantee and only buy Meyle, Lemforder, Febi, or Bilstein unless there was a different specific OEM supplier for a given part that is cheaper than genuine. But 99% of the time, I go with Meyle or Lemforder.

My philosophy on suspensions is when one part fails, they'll all fail one after the other in short order. To avoid the death by a thousand cuts I do the entire front or rear (whichever suffered a failure) all at one time. Avoids headaches with diagnosis usually and gives another 80-100k miles of quiet BMW handling. DIY'ing it usually runs ~$900 including an alignment.

I do the same thing. Works splendidly. OE or OE style shocks are only good for about 70k in my experience. And by that time you surely need new bump stops, tension bushing and strut mounts.

Then it feels as new! Very satisfying.

[tlow98]

Also, to the OP, my previous E91 BMW made a very similar noise that you're describing which my new to me F15 makes. It went away when I replaced the front shocks. I believe the tension struts can also make a very similar noise. It's interesting that some have had issues with part #13 as those style bushings on many other BMWs are generally considered the more reliable ones. Solid rubber with no fluid and they only really move in one dimension.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Do you have a video of the creak/groan?

On suspensions I only buy from FCP Euro for their lifetime replacement guarantee and only buy Meyle, Lemforder, Febi, or Bilstein unless there was a different specific OEM supplier for a given part that is cheaper than genuine. But 99% of the time, I go with Meyle or Lemforder.

My philosophy on suspensions is when one part fails, they'll all fail one after the other in short order. To avoid the death by a thousand cuts I do the entire front or rear (whichever suffered a failure) all at one time. Avoids headaches with diagnosis usually and gives another 80-100k miles of quiet BMW handling. DIY'ing it usually runs ~$900 including an alignment.

Sounds exactly like this! Turn the volume up as it's fairly subtle in this video. Except my sound is coming from passenger front, not driver's side.

I love Meyle but I couldn't find the (#13) arm in that brand. I also considered the Lemforder one. Fyi, #13 ended up being the culprit for the sound in the video above.

Originally Posted by tlow98

I do the same thing. Works splendidly. OE or OE style shocks are only good for about 70k in my experience. And by that time you surely need new bump stops, tension bushing and strut mounts.

Then it feels as new! Very satisfying.

I've literally changed every bushing/arm on the passenger front at this point except #13.

Originally Posted by tlow98

Also, to the OP, my previous E91 BMW made a very similar noise that you're describing which my new to me F15 makes. It went away when I replaced the front shocks. I believe the tension struts can also make a very similar noise. It's interesting that some have had issues with part #13 as those style bushings on many other BMWs are generally considered the more reliable ones. Solid rubber with no fluid and they only really move in one dimension.

I thought it was the struts or strut mounts like mentioned but the coilovers did fix that so can't be my issue. I've already replaced the tension strut on the passenger side.

[tlow98]

Got it. Well, I really didn’t want to replace that #13 as it’s pricey. Le sigh.

Hope it works for you!

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Got it. Well, I really didn’t want to replace that #13 as it’s pricey. Le sigh.

Hope it works for you!

I get it bro, my thoughts exactly. That's why I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on the cheaper #13 part. Talking to the shop right now about if they are willing to help me out since they misdiagnosed the replacement of the #8 arm. I've spent close to $1500 in labor alone w/ this shop in the last month so I think the least they can do is install the new #13 arm w/ labor being on the house. We'll see what they come back with.

[classic_erik]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

I get it bro, my thoughts exactly. That's why I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on the cheaper #13 part. Talking to the shop right now about if they are willing to help me out since they misdiagnosed the replacement of the #8 arm. I've spent close to $1500 in labor alone w/ this shop in the last month so I think the least they can do is install the new #13 arm w/ labor being on the house. We'll see what they come back with.

I just bought the Lemforder lower control arms on FCP Euro @ $195 each. With all the bad luck you've had and money you've spent on the suspension already, why go with a suspect / budget part?

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

I just bought the Lemforder lower control arms on FCP Euro @ $195 each. With all the bad luck you've had and money you've spent on the suspension already, why go with a suspect / budget part?

Yeah, I'm thinking this is the route I will go, too.

Lemforder is as good as it gets for control arms. They are the same as the BMW units, sans the "bmw" label.

$400 more, le sigh, again, haha.

[Ascotgrun]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

I just bought the Lemforder lower control arms on FCP Euro @ $195 each. With all the bad luck you've had and money you've spent on the suspension already, why go with a suspect / budget part?

Sure, if I knew that my lower control arm was bad then $200 for Lemforder is the solid option. The budget control arm is a quarter of the price and if it's only being changed to track down a noise then I would much rather gamble $50 vs $200.

If it fixed the noise then eventually wears out, then I would happily pay for a Lemforder replacement.

That's just how I view it. Not my car/money though.

[Ascotgrun]

Just a thought after re-reading the original post. If the car feels "loose" while cornering have you looked at the steering, specifically the tie rod ends?. Also it could be something not related to suspension at all. A badly worn or broken engine/differential mount may cause excessive movement in the drivetrain leading to that loose uneasy feeling.

I don't have any experience with the xDrive system, but would a faulty front differential trigger error codes?. A bad front diff may be the culprit or a contributing factor especially when you mention that you get traction control engaging during light cornering. Can you select 2wd vs 4wd high and low with the Xdrive?. Maybe try that and various sport, sport + modes to see if it makes a difference.

Just spitballing here trying to think of free things you can try before shelling out more money.

[sukhk527]

On my previous e46 sedan , I had chased a creak like this which ended up being sway bar end links. Did the BC's come with new ones?

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

I just bought the Lemforder lower control arms on FCP Euro @ $195 each. With all the bad luck you've had and money you've spent on the suspension already, why go with a suspect / budget part?

I do highly respect your opinion and I've thought the same. I haven't ruled out the Lemforder FCA.

Originally Posted by Ascotgrun

Sure, if I knew that my lower control arm was bad then $200 for Lemforder is the solid option. The budget control arm is a quarter of the price and if it's only being changed to track down a noise then I would much rather gamble $50 vs $200.

If it fixed the noise then eventually wears out, then I would happily pay for a Lemforder replacement.

That's just how I view it. Not my car/money though.

This is kind of where my mind is at right now, but I'm still pretty pissed from the last shop having me replace a FCA that didn't need to be replaced. So I need to calm down a touch before I make a decision.

Originally Posted by Ascotgrun

Just a thought after re-reading the original post. If the car feels "loose" while cornering have you looked at the steering, specifically the tie rod ends?. Also it could be something not related to suspension at all. A badly worn or broken engine/differential mount may cause excessive movement in the drivetrain leading to that loose uneasy feeling.

I don't have any experience with the xDrive system, but would a faulty front differential trigger error codes?. A bad front diff may be the culprit or a contributing factor especially when you mention that you get traction control engaging during light cornering. Can you select 2wd vs 4wd high and low with the Xdrive?. Maybe try that and various sport, sport + modes to see if it makes a difference.

Just spitballing here trying to think of free things you can try before shelling out more money.

I think you can actually disconnect the transfer case, but I haven't gone this route. I will say that my tires on the front are pretty worn out and need to be replaced but I've held off on this as a bad FCA can cause abnormal tire wear which is obvious not welcome on a new set of fronts. Appreciate the spitballing, I've been playing that game too.

Originally Posted by sukhk527

On my previous e46 sedan , I had chased a creak like this which ended up being sway bar end links. Did the BC's come with new ones?

I had that shop that replaced my FCA most recently check the sway bar end links and as well as the tie rods and they said everything looks good. But at the same time I now doesn't trust this shop at all so I prob need to get a 2nd opinion. The BC Racing coilovers did not come new sway bar end links.

[classic_erik]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

I do highly respect your opinion and I've thought the same. I haven't ruled out the Lemforder FCA.

This is kind of where my mind is at right now, but I'm still pretty pissed from the last shop having me replace a FCA that didn't need to be replaced. So I need to calm down a touch before I make a decision.

I think you can actually disconnect the transfer case, but I haven't gone this route. I will say that my tires on the front are pretty worn out and need to be replaced but I've held off on this as a bad FCA can cause abnormal tire wear which is obvious not welcome on a new set of fronts. Appreciate the spitballing, I've been playing that game too.

I had that shop that replaced my FCA most recently check the sway bar end links and as well as the tie rods and they said everything looks good. But at the same time I now doesn't trust this shop at all so I prob need to get a 2nd opinion. The BC Racing coilovers did not come new sway bar end links.

Sorry that came across as a criticism. It's not my money so I get it. I just want you out of this hell!

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by classic_erik

Sorry that came across as a criticism. It's not my money so I get it. I just want you out of this hell!

Appreciate it, but I didn't take it that way at all. And yes, I want this fixed asap! I'm the type that because I'm very OCD about my car this has been consuming me. I'd be willing to bet you're the same. Plus my wife pouring gas on the fire by saying "how much money have you spent without a fix", and don't forget the classic "that's a BMW for you, not reliable". All that has def been pulling on me.

Also, guys let's not get away from the youtube video I linked above. This is the exact sound I'm hearing in which the solution for that person was the #13 arm replacement. I mean, I've replaced everything on that side except that arm so why not? Oh yeah, there's that whole "I'm going broke, trying to diagnose this thing". I'm up shits' creek...somebody throw me a f'ing paddle!