X5 M50d

[Beamerbiggs]

Does anybody know why the m50d is not going to be offered in the US?

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Beamerbiggs

Does anybody know why the m50d is not going to be offered in the US?

My guess is that it will cannibalise sales from the X5M? NA is probably the biggest X5M market in the world (another guess).

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by paddy335

My guess is that it will cannibalise sales from the X5M? NA is probably the biggest X5M market in the world (another guess).

NA is by far the largest market for M cars, mostly because it's so much cheaper to buy cars here than anywhere else in the world, particularly those with high-displacement engines and high horsepower -- but it's still only a fraction of total BMW sales. I think the reason it's not offered (in addition to cannibalizing the X5 M) is that diesel is still gaining traction in the US, and BMW probably felt that combining three relatively low-volume market segments for BMW in the US (diesel, M, and SUV) in a single vehicle wouldn't result in enough sales to justify the cost of developing a US variant, getting it crash certified, getting dealers trained up, parts supply chain for maintenance/repair, etc.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by jphughan

NA is by far the largest market for M cars, mostly because it's so much cheaper to buy cars here than anywhere else in the world, particularly those with high-displacement engines and high horsepower -- but it's still only a fraction of total BMW sales. I think the reason it's not offered (in addition to cannibalizing the X5 M) is that diesel is still gaining traction in the US, and BMW probably felt that combining three relatively low-volume market segments for BMW in the US (diesel, M, and SUV) in a single vehicle wouldn't result in enough sales to justify the cost of developing a US variant, getting it crash certified, getting dealers trained up, parts supply chain for maintenance/repair, etc.

Well put.

(NA requires crash certification on an engine variant?!)

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by paddy335

Well put.

(NA requires crash certification on an engine variant?!)

Well there's probably a lot more that's different about an X5 M50d than the engine. But even if it's just the engine, keep in mind that the reason the E9x M3 didn't get the LED angel eyes that the base series got starting MY2012 was because doing so would have required the M3 to get crash-certified again, and BMW didn't feel it was worth the cost based on its sales volume compared to the series cars. So if new headlamps (and possibly a slightly tweaked front bumper to accommodate them) require recertification, I have no trouble believing that an engine change would require recertification even if that were the only difference.

[SCOTT26]

Diesel for BMW is still an unknown quantity for BMW in North America that finally they have started to introduce affordable entry diesels in order to gain customers who would like to switch to diesel.

The M Performance diesel will not be federalised because there is no support to federalise the engine and sell a handful of units. If diesel takes off in a huge way then a Performance diesel can be considered. But for now it will not be available for North America for the near future.

The M Performance diesel were also introduced to offer high performance models that in some areas of the Europe standard M models are heavily taxed. The emissions level of the M Performance diesel falls well below required targets and are not heavily taxed like other performance models offering customers in Europe high performance , efficiency and less impact on their wallet.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Diesel for BMW is still an unknown quantity for BMW in North America that finally they have started to introduce affordable entry diesels in order to gain customers who would like to switch to diesel.

The M Performance diesel will not be federalised because there is no support to federalise the engine and sell a handful of units. If diesel takes off in a huge way then a Performance diesel can be considered. But for now it will not be available for North America for the near future.

The M Performance diesel were also introduced to offer high performance models that in some areas of the Europe standard M models are heavily taxed. The emissions level of the M Performance diesel falls well below required targets and are not heavily taxed like other performance models offering customers in Europe high performance , efficiency and less impact on their wallet.

Good point! I'd forgotten that the engine in the X5 M50d isn't currently offered in any other BMW sold in the US, and thus yes offering this vehicle would have required EPA certification of a new engine, in addition to all of the other work required to certify the X5 M50d as an entire vehicle and setting up all of the supporting logistics I mentioned above.

[bim_power]

I read some place that the x40D is more efficient than x35D and x50D is slightly more on MPG compared to x35D. I could find the article, but I will share when I locate it.

[phantomac2]

Originally Posted by bim_power

I read some place that the x40D is more efficient than x35D and x50D is slightly more on MPG compared to x35D. I could find the article, but I will share when I locate it.

The US X5 xDrive35d has the same 190 kW engine as the European X5 xDrive30d.

The X5 xDrive40d has 230 kW, the X5 M50d has 280 kW.

All four share the same 2993 cm³ N57 engine but have different turbochargers.

[chrisny]

I tried to get a set of the M50d wheels (style 468) from an OEM (oem not replica) retailer and because the car isn't sold here (despite being made here), the wheels would have to be imported from Germany, to the tune of 5800 for wheels alone! for comparison, the style 469's can be had from same retailer for 3800, both OEM BMW 20" wheels, same size, etc.

So not only can we not get the M50d, just to get the wheels is difficult and the only place I've seen them, it's at a 50% premium since they can't be sourced locally….

[phantomac2]

The price for a set of 468 M wheels without tyres is 3660 € in Germany, which equals about 5000 US$.

[tiburonh]

Originally Posted by Beamerbiggs

Does anybody know why the m50d is not going to be offered in the US?

My guess is that the m50d could not even come close to meeting emission standards in the US (or at least in California).

[phantomac2]

Originally Posted by tiburonh

My guess is that the m50d could not even come close to meeting emission standards in the US (or at least in California).

It has 35.1 MPG and produces 177 g/km (110 g/Mile) CO2.

The 50i uses way more fuel and produces way more CO2.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by phantomac2

The price for a set of 468 M wheels without tyres is 3660 € in Germany, which equals about 5000 US$.

From BMW or an OEM shop?

[atlantiQue]

It is wrong. M50d is much much cleaner than 50i and even cleaner than 35i. 50d's emissions are 177 grams of CO2 per km, while 50i's are 242g/km. Any contemporary diesel will have lower CO2 emissions than petrol.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by phantomac2

It has 35.1 MPG and produces 177 g/km (110 g/Mile) CO2.

The 50i uses way more fuel and produces way more CO2.

35.1 MPG with that kind of performance is awesome. With all of the attention paid to MPG these days, you would think they would bring the car here too. Wait, it's already here, they just don't let any of them stay here

the 'Clean Diesel' movement is not at all new at this point. I considered a 35d back in 2010 and the ad campaigns were already running (guy drinking a glass of water filled from the exhaust of a BMW (x5 35d I think). Still not as many people open to it as there should be, but anyone looking for that kind of performance (50i shoppers) should also love the brut force that comes with the torque of a diesel, and why not triple your MPG while you're at it! Not sure what the price point would be here, but seems to me the 50d would be the equivalent of the 'is' models, right in between 50 and the ///M. Niche market, but there's a market for it (ask E53 4.8is owners!).

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by tiburonh

My guess is that the m50d could not even come close to meeting emission standards in the US (or at least in California).

You're thinking of the old, black smoke spouting diesels. Not today's 'clean diesels.'

[AEC]

Originally Posted by chrisny

You're thinking of the old, black smoke spouting diesels. Not today's 'clean diesels.'

I think he may be right. It took significant effort for BMW (and the other European manufacturers) to get the six cylinder diesels certified in California because of the very stringent requirements on particulates in exhaust. European requirements focus more on CO2 than particulates and that may be one reason why Diesel engines are favored.

[AEC]

Originally Posted by atlantiQue

It is wrong. M50d is much much cleaner than 50i and even cleaner than 35i. 50d's emissions are 177 grams of CO2 per km, while 50i's are 242g/km. Any contemporary diesel will have lower CO2 emissions than petrol.

I believe the issue with California (and US) requirements is related to particulate emissions, not CO2 emissions. Yes, diesels have lower CO2 emissions than petrol, but their particulate emissions are MUCH higher. In places like Los Angeles with smog problems, particulate emissions are a big concern.

[phantomac2]

All 2014 X5 diesel cars conform to the Euro 6 emission standard.

[atlantiQue]

and Euro 6 standard are extremly strict not only on CO2 but particle emissions, too. Diesels in EU now have particle filters and use AdBlue solution to meet the limits. And they emit less particles compared to petrol engines too. I know about California obsession about emission standards but would be surprised if it were bigger than our own :-).

http://www.transportenvironment.org/...ns-petrol-cars

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by AEC

I think he may be right. It took significant effort for BMW (and the other European manufacturers) to get the six cylinder diesels certified in California because of the very stringent requirements on particulates in exhaust. European requirements focus more on CO2 than particulates and that may be one reason why Diesel engines are favored.

I honestly don't know much about it, just amazed at how far they've come from the stinky black cloud VW beetles of the past.