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      05-25-2016, 10:05 AM   #1
McWCgW
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UPDATE: Repair Costs for x35d Diesel Contamination???

UPDATE: It just happened again......... fuel system being replaced AGAIN! What's funny, though, is that BMW is covering this one under warranty.

I'll put more detail in new post



So my wife's x35d had the CEL on, so I took it into the shop.

I was getting the following PID Codes:
  1. P228F - Fuel Pressure Regulator Exceeded Learning Limits
  2. P026D - Fuel Injection Quantity Higher than Expected
  3. P0172 - Bank 1 System too Rich
  4. P2279 - Intake Air System Leak



Turns out it was fuel contamination. They want to charge me $18,580!!!!!!

Is it just me, or does that seem unreasonable?


See pics for a list of the estimated costs to repair!!
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Last edited by McWCgW; 04-04-2017 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: updates
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      05-25-2016, 10:14 AM   #2
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If you have a mechanical breakdown insurance coverage let the insurance company handle it. Otherwise, speak to your SA about putting it under factory warranty, but they may back paddle claiming that it was your fault putting a diesel that was supposedly not good for the engine. If they want they will find millions of reasons not to cover it. But speaking to your insurance company should be the second best solution. Just my 3 cents. Good luck!

just curious, how could it happen? I mean diesel contamination, are you sure that no one put something in your fuel tank (sabotaged/pranked) you? Otherwise, sue the gas station/brand that sold you that diesel.
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      05-25-2016, 10:42 AM   #3
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Look at the bright side, at least they're throwing in a free World-class Edge Multipoint Inspection...

As someone who is about to take delivery of a 35d in the not so distant future, I would also love to know how you got contaminated diesel.
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      05-25-2016, 11:02 AM   #4
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I have a pretty good idea of what happened.

We were running low on fuel, so we stopped at a shell station in a less than ideal area of town. So I went in and just got $20, enough to get us home and another day or so.

I start pumping, and about $9 in the pump shut off. The pump had run out of fuel. So I put it up, got a refund and left. But we had gotten everything that was at the bottom of the tank.

The next day I filled it up, and everything was fine for about a week.


I have already started a claim with insurance, so now it is just up to the adjuster. If all goes well, I will still be out my deductible and my insurance company can handle the claim against the gas station.

My main point is the price. I can buy a Kia for what they are charging to repair this. I mean, do I really need a new fuel tank for $3k???? Can't they just rinse that thing out?

Last edited by McWCgW; 05-25-2016 at 11:03 AM.. Reason: Adj number
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      05-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #5
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What are the symptoms? Can you try additive /cleaners and drive until it clears? Eventually the contaminants will clear out, no?

I'd say and 1/4 tank of fresh diesel + some diesel cleaners and additives, and drive it like you stole it, then repeat 2-3 times. But I don't know what the symptoms are and if your able to drive....even running in idle if it cannot drive, with additives, might help.
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Last edited by MattBianco; 05-25-2016 at 11:31 AM..
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      05-25-2016, 12:00 PM   #6
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Did you put the fuel on a credit card or get a receipt? Go after the gas station and marketer.
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      05-25-2016, 12:18 PM   #7
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Yikes, that's not good. At least you know what caused it. Where in Texas are you, and what is the bad neighborhood you're referring to?

In any case, it should be the gas station that picks up the tab on this. I worry you paid with cash so there is less proof. Did you get a receipt? Or did they just hand you your money back? They have cameras, which hopefully will be proof enough.

But like others have said, calling your insurance company should be the first step.

We had a Volvo XC90 a long time ago. We accidentally filled the diesel tank with regular petrol. Wasn't very pleasant, but after we kept mixing diesel in there, it actually ran just fine and we never had issues with it after that.
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      05-25-2016, 12:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McWCgW View Post
I have already started a claim with insurance, so now it is just up to the adjuster. If all goes well, I will still be out my deductible and my insurance company can handle the claim against the gas station.

My main point is the price. I can buy a Kia for what they are charging to repair this. I mean, do I really need a new fuel tank for $3k???? Can't they just rinse that thing out?
That's good, under the circumstances insurance company most likely will put it under comprehensive, no fault section of your policy.

On the price matter, replacing the faulty part instead of fixing it is the easiest path for BMW, as it will not take chances with the customer's car in order to avoid heftier cost of multiple revisits, fixes, loaners, labor, and especially lemon clause application and other claims, etc down the road. And the dealer is super happy to charge the insurance company like there is no tomorrow as dealer knows that insurance adjustor operates on the very same basis of logic as the BMW, pay once and get it out of the way. So don't worry about this, just another example of inefficiencies that are cheaper to ignore than fix. In the end, the bright side, you get a brand new complete fuel line system/assembly in your car and perhaps a few days in a nice loaner, unless the adjustor considers that your car is worth less than the repairs (+ possibility of further issues) and will total it, in which case you can start car shopping.

Last edited by toxic_bimmer; 05-25-2016 at 12:48 PM..
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      05-25-2016, 12:41 PM   #9
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good luck hopefully it will get resolve soon.
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      05-25-2016, 12:47 PM   #10
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I would expect this to be covered under warranty? Am I totally whack?
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      05-25-2016, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8 View Post
I would expect this to be covered under warranty? Am I totally whack?
I don't think so, there is no fault on BMW account, in this particular case, it is a 100% customer caused problem. From BMW's perspective, it's binary, if the problem did not originate from BMW's mistake or error, it's automatically not covered by manufacturer warranty, regardless of actual source of problem, in this case allegedly/presumably gas station or gas station equipment supplier/maintenance provider or gas producer.
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      05-25-2016, 01:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8 View Post
I would expect this to be covered under warranty? Am I totally whack?
This is not BMWs fault, so it should not be covered by BMW.
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      05-25-2016, 03:05 PM   #13
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Offered without reps and warranties:

1) stick a hose and pomp out as much diesel out of the tank as you can, unless you have refueled since the incident.

2) add a diesel biocide such as this. Link: http://amzn.com/B005IUP9LC follow instructions

3) add diesel cleaner such as this. Link: http://amzn.com/B004HMIVNU follow instructions

4) drive, repeat process. If it cannot be driven, try idle for a long, long time

5) if it gets going, go for a long, fuel consuming drive.

6) keep adding the cleaner for the next few refills.

Above is a lot cheaper than $18k. If it does not work, you end where you are now. If it works, I will take a pound of organic Sumatra coffee beans.

Also, if you are stuck and cannot drive, you may need coding help or error reset via the OBD II port so that you can get power to drive.

More info would be helpful as to what the symptoms are and what errors the car is now displaying.
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      05-25-2016, 06:10 PM   #14
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??? insurance will pay for car repairs now

For that cost, see what trade value is and get another one
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      05-25-2016, 06:31 PM   #15
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McWCgW, did they do a fuel analysis? This would be necessary for the dealer to conclude it was fuel contamination.

If they did, they should provide you a copy of the analysis report and, if you do not have the knowledge to review this report, you should seek out someone who can to verify it was contamination. You might also post a copy of the analysis report here so that others could review it.

Besides that, assuming it was contaminate fuel, for the consequence to cost ~$18,000 indicates a very high risk to owning a BMW diesel, so that I would suggest reaching out to BMW for assistance (again, assuming you've confirmed the contamination claim).
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      05-25-2016, 06:51 PM   #16
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I was thinking the same thing as Matt. If it was a gas car and you put in diesel I would say you're toast but with diesel generally it is fine after you get good, clean fuel back into the system.

It may be worth getting an insurance claim going. I assume the deductible is high. After the claim is approved drive the car. If good diesel fuel fixes the problem then you don't need to claim it through insurance.

If it is a lease then this is a no brainer. If you own it, you might want some of the work done - maybe.
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      05-25-2016, 07:26 PM   #17
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I don't understand how BMW is doing this (as an engineer in the petroleum industry). If it is bad diesel (improperly refined, wrong cetane, etc.) it would never have been sold. If it is old diesel, it would likely just flush through, if it was gelled diesel or had contaminants, the filter on the pump and then the fuel filter in the X5 would prevent "grit" from getting in the system.

Either the station screwed up the diesel and had gas in the tank (very unlikely), or the owner put gas in by accident, or your dealership is full of it.

This makes no sense and is disheartening. If it was contaminated due to the tanks being empty and then did $18,000 in damage, why do we have diesel fuel filters?

Are you sure you did not put gas in instead of diesel? That contamination test looks to be critical. I'd start getting tests of the tank contents and seek help from BMW, the station, lawyer, etc. Sorry but that is a ridiculous amount of money and it is stories like this that give diesel a bad name in North America! The other (more likely possibility) is water in the diesel from sucking the bottom of their tanks. I still would have thought your X5 fuel filter would have prevented damage. I would consider just replacing the fuel filter, adding diesel additive, and driving it hard to flush it through (if you have to pay $18K).

Sorry and good luck!

Last edited by c3uo; 05-25-2016 at 07:40 PM..
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      05-25-2016, 09:00 PM   #18
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I certainly didn't put gasoline in it. First of all, that's nearly impossible these days (different sized nozzles that won't fit), and secondly, I pay attention.

The dealership didn't do an analysis, so I'm not exactly sure how they got to "fuel contamination" as the diagnosis. I'm going to have it tested, my buddy tests and treats crude and other products to meet specs before they can be imported into US, so he's got a lab where he can run the analysis for me.

There's a Shell gas station near the bus terminal in midtown Houston, which is where this happened.


Anyone have any experience with PID code P2279? I got the air intake leak code before any of the others. Given that I don't have a great understanding of engines, I was thinking this may have caused the issue vs bad gas, in which case it would be under warranty.
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      05-25-2016, 09:03 PM   #19
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Maybe THAT'S it. It appears that the air flow sensor regulates the fuel/air mixture. So if the leak were bad enough, couldn't something get into the line that way?
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      05-25-2016, 09:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McWCgW View Post
I certainly didn't put gasoline in it. .....

Anyone have any experience with PID code P2279? .... I was thinking this may have caused the issue vs bad gas, in which case it would be under warranty.
Perhaps the station had the wrong fuel in their tanks as he also mentions.

At any rate, P2279 is air system leak as you have already discovered, but that would not be a kind of leak that could cause contaminants to get in. It is one that can affect the emission system and it can trigger a power loss. The good thing is any code generated, will be discoverable.

What are the symptoms the car is displaying? Do you have loss of power? shaky idle? Inability to start? Anything other than errors?

If the station is old, and has corroded metal tanks, who knows what solids might have been floating near the bottom. I was told years ago to never pump if you know fuel was recently delivered as it causes all the sediments to float.

Look at this threads...my earlier suggestion for additives and might still work....after you take samples for testing.


http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7...need-help.html fixed by owner
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7...s-begin-2.html post #24 mentions fix
http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...ode-p228f.html on MB, same code

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=49785 shows sludge from bad fuel and damage
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Last edited by MattBianco; 05-25-2016 at 10:43 PM..
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      05-25-2016, 11:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
Perhaps the station had the wrong fuel in their tanks as he also mentions.

At any rate, P2279 is air system leak as you have already discovered, but that would not be a kind of leak that could cause contaminants to get in. It is one that can affect the emission system and it can trigger a power loss. The good thing is any code generated, will be discoverable.

What are the symptoms the car is displaying? Do you have loss of power? shaky idle? Inability to start? Anything other than errors?

If the station is old, and has corroded metal tanks, who knows what solids might have been floating near the bottom. I was told years ago to never pump if you know fuel was recently delivered as it causes all the sediments to float.

Look at this threads...my earlier suggestion for additives and might still work....after you take samples for testing.


http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7...need-help.html fixed by owner
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7...s-begin-2.html post #24 mentions fix
http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...ode-p228f.html on MB, same code

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=49785 shows sludge from bad fuel and damage

It's been in the shop for a week now.

CEL came on on Wednesday, but initially there weren't any symptoms. Then on Thursday morning it started to take maybe an extra half second to turnover when pushing the ignition button, so I tried scheduling an appointment to drop it off, but nothing was available for a few days. Then on Friday it started taking almost a second to turnover. Then later that day my wife said when she was driving home and it "just went into neutral" and she had to pull over, turn the car off and then turn it back on.

So I just drove it up to the dealership Saturday morning and left it.
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      05-26-2016, 12:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McWCgW View Post
It's been in the shop for a week now.

CEL came on on Wednesday, but initially there weren't any symptoms. Then on Thursday morning it started to take maybe an extra half second to turnover when pushing the ignition button, so I tried scheduling an appointment to drop it off, but nothing was available for a few days. Then on Friday it started taking almost a second to turnover. Then later that day my wife said when she was driving home and it "just went into neutral" and she had to pull over, turn the car off and then turn it back on.

So I just drove it up to the dealership Saturday morning and left it.
In that case, I would get the fuel tested by a lab, drain the rest of the fuel if you can, fill up or top up and add biocide and diesel cleaner additives (above #13), and see how she goes. If you read the Amazon reviews for the cleaners, they are quite amazing. Of course, only do these if the dealer holds a tough line for honoring warranty.
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