UPDATE: Repair Costs for x35d Diesel Contamination???

[MattBianco]

Can you give us an update as to what happened at the end? Thank you.

[F15GorDe]

I'm curious as to how this is playing out, also.

[DETSGTSTARSKY]

I had a 2011 335d that I purchased from a Chicago area dealer used with 21k on the odometer. It was used about 5k per year as we have two other vehicles. I started having problems in February with limp mode and totally cutting power while on the freeway at night. Eventually after several dealership visits including a reprogram, saying it is CBU and an indy shop saying a bad lpfp I learned it was fuel system contamination. They said there was algae in the fuel tank and the entire fuel system would need to be replaced. They quoted 18k for the entire job parts and labor. They said to involve the insurance company which I did. The vehicle ended up being totaled by them due to the cost of the repairs vs the stated value of the vehicle with 35k at the time of problems starting. I had always used a busy Shell station where diesel pickup trucks were always filling up. So unknown in my case how this happened. So I guess in your situation involve your insurance and file a comp claim. They can send an adjustor and see what happens from there.

[Terp335]

Originally Posted by DETSGTSTARSKY

I had a 2011 335d that I purchased from a Chicago area dealer used with 21k on the odometer. It was used about 5k per year as we have two other vehicles. I started having problems in February with limp mode and totally cutting power while on the freeway at night. Eventually after several dealership visits including a reprogram, saying it is CBU and an indy shop saying a bad lpfp I learned it was fuel system contamination. They said there was algae in the fuel tank and the entire fuel system would need to be replaced. They quoted 18k for the entire job parts and labor. They said to involve the insurance company which I did. The vehicle ended up being totaled by them due to the cost of the repairs vs the stated value of the vehicle with 35k at the time of problems starting. I had always used a busy Shell station where diesel pickup trucks were always filling up. So unknown in my case how this happened. So I guess in your situation involve your insurance and file a comp claim. They can send an adjustor and see what happens from there.

Interesting. Chicago uses b20 gas I believe, so perhaps it is a product of a higher bio-level in the gas that caused condensation and then algae. I'm no expert...

[McWCgW]

Originally Posted by MattBianco

Can you give us an update as to what happened at the end? Thank you.

Sorry guys, missed these.

It's still in the shop, this past Saturday marked 6 weeks.

Timeline:

• Insurance adjuster came out, reviewed their quote, said it was ridiculous, and then approved new filter and new fuel pump, and a complete system flush. It took a week for the insurance to go out there, and then a week for parts and work to be completed.

• BMW does this work. Then BMW tells them that this won't cut it, they need to replace everything, but at the very least fuel tank needs to be replaced. After a week, insurance gets back out there and agrees, parts are ordered, and another week later that's completed.

• BMW also shows the insurance adjusted that there were metal particulates in the fuel that was in the tank, and that the BMW service center says the entire system needs to be replaced. Insurance said no, do this first and then we will see.

• Work was completed on a Friday, but my SA wanted to take the vehicle for the weekend just to see if any CEL's came on and make sure that it would work.

• Last Monday he tells me no, 60 miles into the weekend it started puttering and CEL's came back.

As it stands now, insurance adjuster will be out there today or tomorrow for what i hope is the last time.

I haven't been very upset about the issue just yet, as they gave me an x50i loaner that has been pretty fun to drive. But i had to turn that in Saturday and I am now driving a 4runner, so suffice it to say, I will be applying much more pressure to get this resolved quickly.

[milkyway]

OP, glad it's covered by insurance. Hope they take care of and get back your own ride soon. Just wonder what kind of insurance carrier/coverage you have to cover this.

[mrquick68]

I will say this sounds like total and under BS. Diesel fuel has always been known to be dirtier than gasoline. No worries, that's why the factories install Heavy Duty fuel filters as part of the factory design. There is NO way for dirt and metal filings to get by the filter. The fitler can clog, thus causing lack in power, but that's about it. The only way anything could get by the filter is if it were smaller than 2 microns, in which case it wouldn't be metal. So, algea is possible or something else. Again, it could damage the injectors if it made it through, BUT algea can only grow if its in water. and the fuel system should have a water/fuel separator. All the light duty diesel pickups have them, so i'd think BMWs should too.

[McWCgW]

I'm in Good Hands with Allstate.

MrQuick, I don't disagree, when I first heard the diagnosis I thought the same thing. In fact, I still don't understand how this could be such an issue. To me it's seems simple, fuel systems get contaminated everyday, and flushes seem to work for everyone. Why is this different? How/why can BMW justify $18k for essentially "bad gas"? This will most definitely deter me from owning anymore BMW's, which is a shame, as this was our first and we absolutely love it. I came from Audi to BMW because I wanted an SUV that was big enough for our family, but still had performance. But once we get on the right-side up, I expect we will get rid of it.

The SA showed me the BMW recommendations screen in the shop for fuel that contains "Swarf", and then put a magnet in my tank (they took the tank off) with liquid stuck to it. Not really sure what I was supposed to take from that, I guess that is supposed to prove there is metal in the liquid fuel?

At the end of the day, given that it's a BMW dealership and not some neighborhood auto shop, I'm more inclined to believe them when they KEEP pushing back and saying what the insurance adjuster is approving won't cut it. I don't see what BMW shop has to gain from this. I had a loaner for a LONG time, which I'm pretty sure they would have rather had back, this is a VERY busy dealership.

[checksix]

My 2014 X35d stopped in the middle of an intersection. No warnings, no alert lights. Would turn over, but would not start at all, not even a stutter. Could not move into neutral to get out of the intersection (this was maddening) and had it towed to BMW. After diagnosis, they said bad fuel (water) caused algae to clog everything and cause damage. Total estimate, ~$12K! I was shocked as this is my first diesel and purchase from the same dealer as a Certified Pre-Owned in Nov, 2015. So you can imagine my surprise when they stated I need to pay this atrocious amount for something I had no control over. My insurance (USAA) had an adjuster come out and he agreed with the diagnosis. Now I am hoping USAA will approve it. I did get diesel the day it died in the AM and the vehicle stopped after about 25 miles. The service guy said that it was due to the algae, but I don't think algae can due this in one day. Can water get through? According to the adjuster, the fuel pump was destroyed and metal shavings went through. How on earth does this happen? From my perspective, this puts owning a diesel in a whole new light. Now I feel I cannot trust it.

[Kzang]

Just googled algae diesel fuel and found this.

http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html

"Algae are a life form found in water, similar to algae growing in an aquarium. However, for years, people have been referring to tank sludge and to the jelly, slime and other contaminants found in fuel filters as "algae". The colloquialism "diesel fuel algae" is widely used and understood. However, there is no relationship between the "algae" growing in your aquarium and the sludge "growing" (forming) in your fuel tank and showing up on your filter elements."

https://www.bellperformance.com/bell...sel-fuel-algae

"The last 7-8 years have seen a dramatic rise across the nation in incidents of fuel storage tanks contaminated with "algae". We put that in quotes because we know it's not really "algae", but rather, other fuel microbes like mold, fungus and bacteria. It's commonly called algae because that's what people think it is (it's not really algae because algae is a microscopic plant organism, plants need light to grow, and fuel tanks are too dark to give them the light they need), so we roll with it. Whether it's really algae or it's bacteria or fungus, the problems are the same, no matter what you call it."

[checksix]

I agree and thanks for the posting. I believe the technical terms are microbes, or bacteria. The question to me is, if this is such a problem that is ramping up over the past 7 or so years, what is being done by diesel auto manufacturers to prevent complete fuel system breakdown?

I'm in the IT business and we do root cause analysis on all major incidents that cause downtime and create a solution to stop it from happening in the future.

BMW is not providing any means to either detect the issue before it creates major issues, or any recommendations to prevent it. To me, there is a serious failure here. Aircraft manufactures are using diesels now and yes, I'm sure airports have more consistent fuel sources, but do aircraft manufacturers worry about microbes in the fuel tank that will eventually knock an engine out?

[McWCgW]

Originally Posted by checksix

I agree and thanks for the posting. I believe the technical terms are microbes, or bacteria. The question to me is, if this is such a problem that is ramping up over the past 7 or so years, what is being done by diesel auto manufacturers to prevent complete fuel system breakdown?

I'm in the IT business and we do root cause analysis on all major incidents that cause downtime and create a solution to stop it from happening in the future.

BMW is not providing any means to either detect the issue before it creates major issues, or any recommendations to prevent it. To me, there is a serious failure here. Aircraft manufactures are using diesels now and yes, I'm sure airports have more consistent fuel sources, but do aircraft manufacturers worry about microbes in the fuel tank that will eventually knock an engine out?

Agree 1000%!

With the outrageous cost it takes to repair, how can BMW not have a system in place to either prevent or detect the issue? I don't know what other manufacturers are doing, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't cost $18k to fix a ford diesel. I know, apples and oranges, but that's my point. How could BMW not protect against something that could potentially cost a purchaser nearly 25% of the vehicle's cost?

[McWCgW]

Tomorrow marks 8 weeks since I took it in for service.... this is taking FOREVER

[coolidge]

Originally Posted by McWCgW

but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't cost $18k to fix a ford diesel.

No it cost $25k you have to remove the entire cab from the truck to get at the fuel system. This poor guy who had posted had only like 10k miles on it and Ford said the fuel lines were all rusted due to bad fuel, denied his warranty claim, and quoted him $25k to fix it. He was seeking a lawyer last I heard.

[cute_lil_bmw]

OP, by any chance are you in Austin? Just curious because the timing of your post is around the time I too got contaminated fuel. My "baseline" quote for repairs from dealer (because not covered by warranty) was $22k, but that was just for replacing the entire fuel system. There were 2 E70's with the same quotes from getting fuel at the same Shell station.

http://www.fourpointsnews.com/2016/0...share-damages/

I'm now 9 days shy of 2 months of this hell. My car totaled, ridiculously low offer from their insurance - so low that I couldn't even find an older E70 with options like mine to replace it. I finally hired an attorney.

[ADPCAP]

Originally Posted by McWCgW

So my wife's x35d had the CEL on, so I took it into the shop.

I was getting the following PID Codes:

1. P228F - Fuel Pressure Regulator Exceeded Learning Limits
2. P026D - Fuel Injection Quantity Higher than Expected
3. P0172 - Bank 1 System too Rich
4. P2279 - Intake Air System Leak

Turns out it was fuel contamination. They want to charge me $18,580!!!!!!

Is it just me, or does that seem unreasonable?


See pics for a list of the estimated costs to repair!!

Hello Sir! I am dealing with same exact issue with my X5 at the same shop you took your car. My insurance company (Progressive) in not accepting the claim saying it's a mechanical issue and not fuel contamination. Did you have to provide any kind of documentation to convince your insurance company to accept the claim? What was the end result? Did it get fixed or did the insurance company total the car and paid you the fair market value? I would like to discuss this matter with you over the phone if possible. I can be reached at 713-397-0901. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

[Chancepowell]

Interestingly I have the same list of repairs for a failed "internal fuel pump."

I was told the entire fuel line would need to be replaced due to metal particles found in the injectors. I took the X5 in due to loose steering (felt like i was always correcting while on highway speeds) and when the technician was driving the entire car shut down and had to be towed back to the dealer. It seems like an awful amount of work for just bad gas. Is there any chance that your situation could be similar to what I experienced?

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by checksix

I'm in the IT business and we do root cause analysis on all major incidents that cause downtime and create a solution to stop it from happening in the future.

just thinking out loud but guessing that is was is implemented in the next release because it is probably too costly to retrofit a solution or perhaps the issue with the fuel source and that is what needs to be changed not the hardware that uses it.

[McWCgW]

Originally Posted by Chancepowell

Interestingly I have the same list of repairs for a failed "internal fuel pump."

I was told the entire fuel line would need to be replaced due to metal particles found in the injectors. I took the X5 in due to loose steering (felt like i was always correcting while on highway speeds) and when the technician was driving the entire car shut down and had to be towed back to the dealer. It seems like an awful amount of work for just bad gas. Is there any chance that your situation could be similar to what I experienced?

Exact same situation. The vehicle was shutting off on it's own while my wife was driving it with our 2 kids, thankfully she was on a side street when it happened 2 times in a row.

There were "metal particles" in the fuel for us as well. Once they removed the gas tank they put a magnet into the fuel that was at the bottom of the empty tank and showed me how the fuel was sticking to the magnet.... whether that's actually scientific proof or not, I don't know, but I guess it worked enough for my insurance company.

BMW had originally "recommended" that the entire fuel system be replaced. My insurance company laughed at them saying it was unnecessary to replace the entire system (which is what I thought, who designs a vehicle that needs $18k worth of repairs for bad fuel??). So they initially approved replacement for a few of the items and then a fuel system cleaning. That didn't do the trick, so insurance ended up going with the BMW recommendations.

[Flying Ace]

just read your update, who's insurance is covering this? Should be the gas station's.

[Chancepowell]

My circumstance was covered under warranty (Irvine BMW) but when we picked up the car the shop foreman stated that this failure isn't common but it had been seen before. He also stated that this failure isn't seen in Europe and was probably related to quality/purity of diesel found in the US.

-as a clarification to the first post it was the high pressure fuel pump that failed and "released" metal particles into the fuel system. I was told that the replacement of all componenets was a precautionary measure.

[McWCgW]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

just read your update, who's insurance is covering this? Should be the gas station's.

Mine covered it, and they are going after the gas station to recoup expenses. If successful, I will get my deductible back too, so that's nice.