Compact and Mid-size SUV shopping options - May 2016

[toxic_bimmer]

UPDATE: Got to test drive an F-Pace in R trim and Macan GTS, checked the GLC 300 4matic.

F-Pace while very sprightly on acceleration was a bit of a letdown in suspension department. It makes you bounce too much on an uneven surface, way more than I expected. Transmission is jerky in Sports mode. Interior quality, sorry Jag but BMW, MB, Audi and Porsches feel much more refined, don't get me wrong, it is still nice enough but not as nice as the competition. The interior of a base model (Premium trim I think) I saw on the showroom floor was, well, put it simply, subpar. Seats, leather as an indicator, felt and looked somewhat inferior. I was told that S and First Edition get much better suspension and leather.

GLC, feels very premium, refined and cozy inside. One note though, because of the shape of the center console, the space in the front feels smaller that in Macan or F-Pace or X6 (by a significant margin). Will have to wait until the GLC43 AMG and GLC Coupe (most likely with the same engine) hit the showrooms to make a proper comparison of what if feels to drive them.

Macan GTS comes strong so far, dynamics, fit and finish of the interior and overall package look good. It could use a bigger screen though and have a HUD, but well...

Levante is yet to be driven. Hopefully soon enough.

How X6 compares to them? Even with limited cargo space, when compared to X5, it is still a larger vehicle. Cargo and passenger space is large enough. Dynamics and ride quality is on par with all the cars mentioned above (Macan is slightly better in driving feel though).

[wifesbimmer]

I would like to see Range Rover Sport on the list.

[toxic_bimmer]

Originally Posted by New21er

How about the Range Rover HSE? It's priced in there slightly above the X5. I currently have a 13 Touareg TDI and am cross shopping the RR and the X5 (both diesel models)

Originally Posted by wifesbimmer

I would like to see Range Rover Sport on the list.

I actually test-drove RRS a year ago and while it is a good car, I found it hard to call it a sporty SUV. Yes, it is very fast and luxurious but handling didn't feel as agile as it did in X5/6 or Audi Q5; RRS didn't feel very composed in corners either, body roll is quite substantial. In my subjective(!) opinion it is a traditional SUV that likes to be driven at a leisurely pace rather than tossed around like Macan or Cayenne for example. I would say that Audi Q7 is comparable in the way RRS feels on the road, which is big and heavy, and fast, depending on the engine you choose. Out of mid-sized SUVs, I 'd say that X5/6, GLE 450AMG (Coupe included) and Cayenne S feel most sporty. Q7, RRS, GLE 350 are more of a similar breed. Even X5 feels more softer than X6, I believe the suspension and drivetrain settings are slightly more aggressive in X6. And again, take it with a grain of salt, it all is very subjective, everyone's impressions are different. It also depends on what car you are coming from, if you are driving sports coupe now and go for an SUV, any of the models in this thread will feel docile to you from the outset (except for full blown Ms, AMGs, RSs and Turbos). It's all a matter of habit, preferences and priorities. Best way is to test drive all of them unless you have a "dream car" you want no matter what. It is always much easier when you shop with your heart rather than spreadsheet. If you are with the the latter, go ahead and test drive them all, in the end, your personal emotions is what matters most.

[New21er]

" your personal emotions is what matters most" Well said and very true!!

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

It is always much easier when you shop with your heart rather than spreadsheet. If you are with the the latter, go ahead and test drive them all, in the end, your personal emotions is what matters most.

I also agree with the above statement!

One thing to consider is that most people who do test drive the X5 off the dealers lot won't really get to know how good the X5 can handle.. Mainly because dealers don't normally stock cars with DHP or Adaptive M suspension.

IMO a standard X5 leaves a lot to be desired...

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

F-Pace while very sprightly on acceleration was a bit of a letdown in suspension department. It makes you bounce too much on an uneven surface, way more than I expected.

you will find the same with the x5/x6 if you do not get all the suspension upgrades.

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

I would say that Audi Q7 is comparable in the way RRS feels on the road, which is big and heavy, and fast, depending on the engine you choose

if you get the adaptive suspension on the 4L Q7 the feeling you speak of is not existent. audi did a very good job masking the weight and size of the Q7 if you get it with the s-line package and adaptive suspension and the 21x10 wheels. on the 4M Q7 the suspension is dialed in slightly better and the four wheel steering is a lot of fun. the achillese heel of the new Q7 is it's looks outside of that nothing else really jumps out as you as it not being a viable option (however if you owned a 4L you can see a great deal of cost-cutting around the vehicle and a let down for those of us who owned one before).

Originally Posted by Kzang

One thing to consider is that most people who do test drive the X5 off the dealers lot won't really get to know how good the X5 can handle.. Mainly because dealers don't normally stock cars with DHP or Adaptive M suspension.

exactly. which is a huge let down. same with the B&O audio. i believe they would sell a lot more if prospects had the ability to hear it in person instead of just forking over $6k for something they think they will never appreciate.

[toxic_bimmer]

I agree that suspension upgrades is a good thing, but my point is that at this price range I expected a much better base suspension in F-Pace, especially if they are throwing in a capable engine under the hood. They shouldn't expect it to be just another people hauler with 340bhps. Macan's base one is more than adequate for example. I understand an F-Pace with 2.0L engine and a so-so suspension, but I think that people who opt for a 3.0L expect it to drive in a particular way, I mean the expectations bar is quite high. Actually, I think that base X5/6 suspension feels much better than that of F-Pace. But this is my personal impression. You should test drive F-pace and you will understand what I am talking about. There was a barely visible bump/wave (whatever you call it) and the back of the car bounced so much and at such an amplitude that it made my stomach very uncomfortable. And it wasn't a huge one or I was speeding going over it, max 40 mph. Otherwise, it handled pretty well, steering felt good and pleasantly heavy in the corners.

I wish they brought an SQ7 TDI to the states... and M50d... that would be awesome. 3L engines they offer now for Q7 might be too small for the heft of it. I test-drove a previous generation Q7 w 3L TFSI and it felt too heavy for that engine. The current one, I don't know much about. It is lighter and probably drives and feels much better, I presume.

[toxic_bimmer]

Got a call from MB dealer and according to them the GLC 43AMG (and most likely Coupe) is going to be available in October 2016. Macan or Levante will have to wait a little longer

[nal13]

All the mentioned SUVs are solid rides but I can honestly say I didn't cross shop most of them. The glc and Macan are significantly smaller then the the x5. We bought the x5 for the utility. Imo the op is comparing apples to oranges. If I was young single guy and wanted an suv I'd go with the Macan. However as a married father my options are just different. I considered the Range Rover sport, the lr4, the xc90 and the cayenne. At the end of the day the x5 was the best rounded and best valued of the bunch

[toxic_bimmer]

Originally Posted by nal13

All the mentioned SUVs are solid rides but I can honestly say I didn't cross shop most of them. The glc and Macan are significantly smaller then the the x5. We bought the x5 for the utility. Imo the op is comparing apples to oranges. If I was young single guy and wanted an suv I'd go with the Macan. However as a married father my options are just different. I considered the Range Rover sport, the lr4, the xc90 and the cayenne. At the end of the day the x5 was the best rounded and best valued of the bunch

I agree, Macan, GLC, F-Pace and Levante are smaller vehicles. I simply don't need the utility of larger SUVs all the time but occasionally I do... therefore I am debating if I am better off with a compact or a mid-size SUV.

[vangoose]

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

UPDATE: Got to test drive an F-Pace in R trim and Macan GTS, checked the GLC 300 4matic.

F-Pace while very sprightly on acceleration was a bit of a letdown in suspension department. It makes you bounce too much on an uneven surface, way more than I expected. Transmission is jerky in Sports mode. Interior quality, sorry Jag but BMW, MB, Audi and Porsches feel much more refined, don't get me wrong, it is still nice enough but not as nice as the competition. The interior of a base model (Premium trim I think) I saw on the showroom floor was, well, put it simply, subpar. Seats, leather as an indicator, felt and looked somewhat inferior. I was told that S and First Edition get much better suspension and leather.

GLC, feels very premium, refined and cozy inside. One note though, because of the shape of the center console, the space in the front feels smaller that in Macan or F-Pace or X6 (by a significant margin). Will have to wait until the GLC43 AMG and GLC Coupe (most likely with the same engine) hit the showrooms to make a proper comparison of what if feels to drive them.

Macan GTS comes strong so far, dynamics, fit and finish of the interior and overall package look good. It could use a bigger screen though and have a HUD, but well...

Levante is yet to be driven. Hopefully soon enough.

How X6 compares to them? Even with limited cargo space, when compared to X5, it is still a larger vehicle. Cargo and passenger space is large enough. Dynamics and ride quality is on par with all the cars mentioned above (Macan is slightly better in driving feel though).

I went to test drive the F-Pace. While I agree the interior materials are not as nice as X5, the driving dynamics and steering are much better. It's a smaller truck but interior space is very good. I test drove the R model but there is also an S in the show room.

BTW. The AC seat is actually working pretty well.

If I have to pick one today, I'd pick F-Pace S. I have a 2016 X6 35i with DHP.


Levante is mid-size. It's actually bigger than X5/X6. I saw the Levante in person but the dealer didn't offer test drive. That sound!

[alphaod]

I would consider the Range Rover as well. Interior of RR I love. The biggest problem with me though is the old tech. For example putting in an address on the X5 is instant and responsive. It takes ages on the Range Rover/Jaguar interface and it just lags.

However seat comfort and dynamics, I actually quite like the plush ride in the Range Rover, so perhaps that's something you can look at as well. I've never driven the F-Pace, so no opinions on that.

[toxic_bimmer]

Finally made my choice and got a 2017 Macan S. After 150+ miles in it, here are some of my thoughts. For a fair review I drove my 2015 X6 xD35i and Macan S back to back on the same stretch which includes some highway and B-roads.

Engine/Drivetrain
- X6 has an adequate power for the heft of it but if pressed hard, engine feels a little strained and sounds like it doesn't enjoy to be driven in a Sport mode. High revving I6 worked and sounded nice in smaller siblings but in this SUV it just doesn't. I agree, it still can be driven quick.
- Macan S is definitely much faster car, given its power-to-weight ratio. You just don't notice how quickly it climbs to the speeds that carry a hefty fine. The delivery of power is also much much smoother.

Transmission
- X6's transmission although very nice in comfort mode while driving at a leisurely pace is jerky in Sport mode [engine+transmission], both at low and high speeds.
- Macan S' transmission is so smooth that you barely notice any shifts. I know, it's a PDK or DCT in BMW lingo, and it is essentially better for spirited driving. But I remember how jerky the BMW's DCT was in my e92 M3 and current M4, especially at low speeds.

Suspension
- X6 is a heavier vehicle and it has its perks. Potholes and other road irregularities are soaked up pretty nicely. Almost never upset, both vehicle and the driver.
- Macan S, surprisingly on par, even though it has 20' non RFTs vs 19' RFTs on X6. Understood, non-RFTs must be the reason, but still, Porsche did a quality job on calibration of its suspension. Nothing to complain about here either.

Handling/Steering
- X6, straight line and some high speed smooth maneuvering is just fine. Nothing to complain about, but take it to a combo of high(-ish) speed S curves, and you want to brake and stop it. Still fun and a lot of adrenalin but caused not by the fun of it but rather by the fear for your life. Just a note, IMO previous gen X6 had a much nicer steering feel.
- Macan S, has a heftier and more precise steering feel. Almost like the 3/4 series.

Sound
- X6 sounds exactly like a high revving I6 should sound on high speeds and almost inaudible on low ones. Perfect for family SUV.
- Macan S, sounds great in low and mid-range and especially during downshifts, everything the motoring journalists have written about is true. It does burble and crackle. Oh and I can definitely hear some sounds that 911s produce.

Interior
- X6 is a very nicely put together car and I love it in general. Nothing to complain about. Nice wood trims. But feels old, BMW hasn't changed its interior for way too many years. As a long-time BMW aficionado I simply got bored of it.
- Macan S is just different. Yes, I find a lot of Audi bits here and there but again, nothing to complain about. Well put together. Don't mind millions of buttons, if you ask.

Ergonomics
- X6's iDrive is still the best and should be made an Industry Standard. A WINNER! Period.
- Macan S' PCM [iDrive equivalent] is frustrating at first, to say the least. Other settings are also confusing at first. But does it matter? At first I thought it does. But after driving it for some time... please see the verdict. Oh and back-up camera is plain awful, comes from 90s probably.

Maintenance cost
- X6, essentially free.
- Macan S, no such thing. Unless you buy it upfront.

Verdict
- X6 is a nice family SUV, with lots of space [yes, for cargo too], for someone who wants something different [in SUV space] and probably sporty [if you go for 50i or M, but in this case 35i]. Solid ride overall.
- Macan S, has its ergonomic quirks and probably not the best electronics in the industry, especially for a car well in $60-100K price territory. But once you drive it for some time, you just stop caring about it. It is that good.

Cost and other aspects of ownership are not covered intentionally as they are not the purpose of my post. Just fyi, I am not easily swayed by fabs or other people's opinions, the above write-up is purely subjective and furthermore comes from a lifetime M and AMG fan. I hope this post will help anyone who shops for a small or mid-size SUV/Crossover.

[hotrod2448]

Congrats on the new ride. I'm with you, I actually like the button orgy that Porsche has going in the Cayenne and to a lesser extent the Macan.

[teodorjelev]

Great, good choice!

[Kzang]

I wonder how the comparison would be if your X6 35i were both equipped with the MPPK and MPE in regards to performance and sound. Macan is a great smaller SUV though.. Excellent choice.

[toxic_bimmer]

Thanks guy! I am enjoying the ride but I am still struggling with the PCM (iDrive equivalent), it is so dated and unrefined, everyday I find some new glitches.

Kzang, I can't tell, as I didn't have them, but I assume if BMW wants to stave off the departures of its fans, it should definitely make their SUVs more sporty, i.e. if the MPPK & MPE change the nature of the vehicle as much as people say, they should make it available as a base option, otherwise Cayennes and Macans look like a more compelling proposition. I never thought that I would say such things but my personal experiences led me to a switch I never thought of.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

Thanks guy! I am enjoying the ride but I am still struggling with the PCM (iDrive equivalent), it is so dated and unrefined, everyday I find some new glitches.

Kzang, I can't tell, as I didn't have them, but I assume if BMW wants to stave off the departures of its fans, it should definitely make their SUVs more sporty, i.e. if the MPPK & MPE change the nature of the vehicle as much as people say, they should make it available as a base option, otherwise Cayennes and Macans look like a more compelling proposition. I never thought that I would say such things but my personal experiences led me to a switch I never thought of.

The thing is BMW is in this business to make money and to cater to the masses. I would think most potential owners of X5 SUV are soccer moms and or family haulers and the like. Instead of forcing consumers with performance upgrades they gave them a choice to add them as options.

I've said it many times before MPPK and MPE changes the dynamics for a X5 35i especially when combined with a Adaptive M suspension.

[toxic_bimmer]

A few weeks into Macan ownership and I got an interesting observation to share. Drivers of NY definitely either a) respect the larger sized black cars more than anything else, b) respect BMWs more than Porsche, or c) hate Porsches. When I am in X6, it is rare for me to be cut while in Macan it's non-stop, by cabs and limos and trucks, which is quite annoying actually. Worst part here is that you will have to change your driving style and habits, you will have to be on a constant lookout for cabs and other drivers. Makes me think that I need to stick to a big black SUV So to anyone who wants to switch, expect to be bullied as a result, at least in NY.

[Mistertmac]

We looked hard at the MB GLE 450 AMG vs the X6 and ended up ordering the MY17 X6! Very happy about it too!

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by toxic_bimmer

A few weeks into Macan ownership and I got an interesting observation to share. Drivers of NY definitely either a) respect the larger sized black cars more than anything else, b) respect BMWs more than Porsche, or c) hate Porsches. When I am in X6, it is rare for me to be cut while in Macan it's non-stop, by cabs and limos and trucks, which is quite annoying actually. Worst part here is that you will have to change your driving style and habits, you will have to be on a constant lookout for cabs and other drivers. Makes me think that I need to stick to a big black SUV So to anyone who wants to switch, expect to be bullied as a result, at least in NY.

Haha...

I'll just stick this here.

[toxic_bimmer]

Yeah, seriously.