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      11-29-2013, 06:04 AM   #170
tony20009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
^ Just a quick side note on the fact that Rolex used Zenith movements in the Daytona. Rolex actually changed about 50% of the movement (reengineered it), so it is a movement based on a Zenith movement.

That being said: My vote goes for Rolex. Fatastic timepieces with stellar quality. I wore a Sub Date for 10 years and it never missed a beat, plus I sold it for a profit.
Now I own two Daytona's (white & black face SS) and a Hulk Sub Date.

Before all the negative comments come in, I own a Bell & Ross BR01-92 PVD and a Paneria 111 also.
Let's both hope they don't. Objective observations and facts as you offered above, are welcomed and good for everyone -- learning, sharing, etc. -- but just bashing something for no tangible reason is puerile and really has no place in a forum of adults.

I like the Sub (and its Sea-Dweller offspring) as well. For a long time, it's been a very hard watch to beat, and one with few real direct competitors. Consider what choices one has as alternatives to a Sub, and the consider when they came into being. There simply aren't that many alternatives, even now, yet there are a few.

Submariner Date or No Date -- Alternatives much have the following traits:
  • In-house movement with a proven track record for durability and reliability
  • 38 to 42 mm diameter
  • Bracelet version if the alternative comes in both strap and bracelet variants
  • Same dial general color as one offered by Rolex ideally, but if not, fine
  • Must be a dive watch
  • Price Range: $7500 to $9000 (give or take about $500)
  • Uncomplicated watch, but dates are acceptable
  • Chronometer or a non-debatable track record of producing at least chronometer-level performance
  • New watch sold by an AD or grey market (not eBay) seller and accompanied by either the manufacturer's or seller's warranty (not pre-owned)
  • Not a limited edition watch
If I'm thinking of a one to one comparison, the JLC Navy Seals, Vulcain, Omega Seamaster (which isn't a pure manufacture watch, but is more than competent enough to be a competing item), Breitling, Ulysse Nardin and Clerc are all that come to mind.


The thing is that when one considers them, even ignoring a need to be price equivalent, what one finds is:

  • UN - in-house requires a chronograph watch (UN-118), so not a direct comparison to a Sub.
  • Breitling - Super Ocean watch is ETA inside; their B01 movement -- a chrono -- is a fitting competitor to the Daytona, but not a Sub.
  • JLC - meets the requirements and sturdy enough but not their best work, even if it's a solid desk diver and good looking enough.
  • Vulcain - meets the criteria. It's a quality piece.
  • Omega - a genuine item that is a very fair competitor to the Sub. Should be okay on reliability if one gets the 8500 co-ax movement, but the 2500 co-axial is the horological analogue to the N54 engine in the E9x cars we love, and Omega did exactly what BMW did: issue an updated variant ASAP.
  • Clerc - a very worthy competitor, able to hold its own with the Sub and the SD. They are a boutique brand that's been around since the 1870s, but were largely unknown until 1997 when the current generation of the family took a more active interest in upping the brand's recognition and profits, no doubt. All the same, they have achieved some horological innovations that are noteworthy. The look is very different from that of the Sub, but suum cuique, the point is to find a comparable product, not one that looks just like a Sub.
Now while I have no reservation about the Clerc; it's a casual/sport watch just as any dive watch is. But I know many folks will wear Subs with suits, and some will even try to pull off a James Bond and wear it with a tux. Regardless of what I think about that, I can see damn well that the Clerc is less able to do double duty. The JLC isn't quite as sartorially versatile as the Sub, and with its extra crown, neither is the Seamaster Planet Ocean.

So, yes, tons of folks will rag on the Rolex Sub for any number of reasons, I have yet to see on credible, objective argument against it, aside from individuals' simply preferring something else due to the common price variance. I'd venture to say the same of Rolex's Datejust models as well insofar as for a semi-dress styled daily wearer, it's hard to beat.

No, Rolex don't have the absolute best movements in the world; other folks offer ones that are far more refined. Rolex having the most reliable movements in the word; plenty of ETA and other folks movements are just as long lasting and tolerant of abuse. What Rolex does have, however, is the best compromise of features -- looks, reliability, proven and deserved reputation, and price (if one considers that one Rolex Sub can give one the wearability of one true dive watch and one semi-dress watch) -- when compared against a great many directly competitive products.

All the best.








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Tony

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