X5 diesel - Dyno runs with Racechip ultimate

[JensM]

Originally Posted by JensM

Opasa
A couple of years ago, I bought a RC Pro2 for my X3 20D (F25). I was in dialogue with RC about setting and was told that the box was default set for +20%. The 20D has std 184HP, with default setting the box should deliver around 220HP. The Tech person also told me that the quoted HP on the web page is with max setting. In the 20D case it is rated at 237HP. Also told that it was not sure all cars could reach this due to error messages.
I am now using the same box (with different settings based on recommendations from RC) on a E70 30D (8 gear) - can't recall setting. He told me that the box will bring it from 245HP to around 295HP (+20%) based on their recommended new default setting (I can tell you that this is something you can feel).
The new 30D has standard 258HP, the box is set at +20% from RC meaning around 310HP (stock setting) and not 331. But 310HP is not bad either. The new X5 30D is already 0.7 sec faster from 0 - 100km/h than the E70. With the box my E70 is significant faster than stock (7.6 sec) - actually drives up equally to my friends X6 40D (which is 1.0 sec faster than stock E70 30D. I would imaging a F15 30D/35D with around 310HP will do 0-100 km/h in around 6.2-6.3

Btw, I have now used the RC box for app 50K (X3) and 20K (X5) without any single error - I take if off for service and I don't think BMW have ever notched

Good luck
JensM

Just found the following on German tuber Hartge's webpage
E70 8speed 245HP -> Tune brings to 290HP/640NM (more or less as default setting with RC). 0-200km/h down from 51.4 sec to 35.3 sec
F15 30D 8 speed 258HP -> Tune brings to 302HP/655NM
80-200km/h (not same as with the E70) down from 32.2 sec to 27.4sec

Btw, they rate the std X6 40D (306HP/600NM 8 speed) to 35.4 sec 0-200km/h - same as the tuned E70 30D, so my feeling when racing against my buddy's X6 was right

[PTY_M]

Thanks for posting your results..i am confused with your settings,
1) E/2 means s1 : E and s2 : 2?
2) what did not allow you to increase the setting?, CEL, detonation, etc..?

Regards..

[opasha]

Originally Posted by PTY_M

Thanks for posting your results..i am confused with your settings,
1) E/2 means s1 : E and s2 : 2?
2) what did not allow you to increase the setting?, CEL, detonation, etc..?

Regards..

This isn't relevant for your 35i. You will start with S1=1 (do not change this for petrol engines) and S2=B (this is the value you change - mine is currently at C and it's a huge improvement). They have diesel engine so their S1=0 and their S2=E as stock, so the only thing they change is S1 from 0 to 2.

[PTY_M]

Originally Posted by opasha

This isn't relevant for your 35i. You will start with S1=1 (do not change this for petrol engines) and S2=B (this is the value you change - mine is currently at C and it's a huge improvement). They have diesel engine so their S1=0 and their S2=E as stock, so the only thing they change is S1 from 0 to 2.

Yes i know that of course, i have a friend with a x35d that is interested to order a chip too, and i want to help him as much as i can, since i have never tried to modify a diesel engine.

[opasha]

Originally Posted by PTY_M

Yes i know that of course, i have a friend with a x35d that is interested to order a chip too, and i want to help him as much as i can, since i have never tried to modify a diesel engine.

Ah ok, good deal . Well, the info is there now regardless, lol. Best of luck.

[emdeuce]

Originally Posted by PTY_M

Thanks for posting your results..i am confused with your settings,
1) E/2 means s1 : E and s2 : 2?
2) what did not allow you to increase the setting?, CEL, detonation, etc..?

Regards..

I'm glad to be able to help the community out with my test results.

E/2 means:
S2=E
S1=2

The reason I didn't bother testing higher/lower settings or different combinations is for the following reasons:
- I did not want to throw a CEL as many do beyond E/2 setting
- more runs will be more $$$ outta my pocket
- my intention as 42pilot accurately stated was to determine if the racechip performs as advertised

[emdeuce]

To keep things short and simple, here are the reason why we did not dyno the car in 6th gear(1:1) and only to the rear wheels. Also some might have noticed why the dyno curves starts at around 2,200 rpms:

- Though we turned off DSC the car kept turning it back on and diverting all power to the rear wheels
- When trying to run in 6th(even with the level held back to keep it in 6th constantly) the transmission would bog down and also turn traction control on for all 4 wheels.
- When full throttling anywhere below 2,200 rpms on the dyno would also turn traction control back on for all 4 wheels.

The only thing that worked was starting the runs at 2,200 rpms in 4th and the car only allowed the rear wheels to spin. Even then, it took us several tries to get clean runs.

Again, I will analyze the numbers for the other two settings and post the results. I will also consolidate all this information to my original post.

[opasha]

Originally Posted by Opplock1

To keep things short and simple, here are the reason why we did not dyno the car in 6th gear(1:1) and only to the rear wheels. Also some might have noticed why the dyno curves starts at around 2,200 rpms:

- Though we turned off DSC the car kept turning it back on and diverting all power to the rear wheels
- When trying to run in 6th(even with the level held back to keep it in 6th constantly) the transmission would bog down and also turn traction control on for all 4 wheels.
- When full throttling anywhere below 2,200 rpms on the dyno would also turn traction control back on for all 4 wheels.

The only thing that worked was starting the runs at 2,200 rpms in 4th and the car only allowed the rear wheels to spin. Even then, it took us several tries to get clean runs.

Again, I will analyze the numbers for the other two settings and post the results. I will also consolidate all this information to my original post.

To turn off DSC completely though, you have to HOLD it longer. Is that what you did? Just curious, and thank you again for all the money you spent on doing these tests for us. I greatly appreciate it, and I am really happy knowing that my base settings are at 507hp so my car is in fact around 514hp in the C setting.

[greentrbo95gst]

I have been in E/3 for the last two days. Feels really good and strong and no cel yet.

[opasha]

For those of you changing your settings, it would be helpful to others if you explained the changes in detail from throttle response in each mode (EcoPro, Comfort, Sport) from complete stop and also rolling speeds, RPMs leveling off or not (is power consistently increasing), and your mpg changes, etc. These are the things people can actually note and understand. Of course, driving the vehicle is the best way to know, but for contemplating going up or not, this knowledge is much more useful.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by Opplock1

I'm glad to be able to help the community out with my test results.

E/2 means:
S2=E
S1=2

The reason I didn't bother testing higher/lower settings or different combinations is for the following reasons:
- I did not want to throw a CEL as many do beyond E/2 setting
- more runs will be more $$$ outta my pocket
- my intention as 42pilot accurately stated was to determine if the racechip performs as advertised

Race Chip owes you big time...

[Ray knight]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Nice.

The only thing I take from this is that RC is pretty damn close to their published claim that their base setting is 18%-20% increase over stock. It also indicates that each increase in the setting is about 1.5% increase in output, based on the two additional settings shown. For me, this is the most important piece of information on this post.

As for the horsepower and torque numbers, I am not going to argue the validity. We would all like to believe BMW under-rates their engines, but they don't and these numbers are highly suspect. In any event, the dyno did exactly as Opplock1 wanted - it validated the chip's effectiveness/performance improvement. For this, I appreciate you spending the time and money, then sharing this with all of us, complete with charts. The chip shows a consistent improvement across the RPM range for the diesel.

The SAE J1349(2004) is a protocol for testing HP and torque (google it). What you probably won't get on google are all the conditions the protocol calls for when testing (about a 20+ page document). For example, it goes down to fuel temp, fuel rail temp and pressure, EGT and so on. Only Opplock1 can tell us if this was used in the calculation factor. If they didn't, then the HP/Torque numbers are just numbers. But again, they performed a before and after test on a chip and that was successful in my opinion.

For your info, BMW (and most other major manufacturers) subscribes to the above protocol (newer version) and they certify their results through a third party. This means their results must be consistent within 1% of their engine production for each model engine, including attached accessories, but not transmission. Therefore, the power BMW advertises is at the crank, on an engine stand, at the factory under extreme controls and supervision.

Every BMW i've owned feels significantly more powerful after 1000-1500 miles are on it vs when its new. I wonder if they dyno differently new vs broken in. My F10 M5 felt like it gained close to 100hp when it hit 1000 miles. My X5 35d felt a lot stronger after 1500 miles. So they are testing and rating new engines. Once broken in they all feel stronger to me.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by Ray knight

Every BMW i've owned feels significantly more powerful after 1000-1500 miles are on it vs when its new. I wonder if they dyno differently new vs broken in. My F10 M5 felt like it gained close to 100hp when it hit 1000 miles. My X5 35d felt a lot stronger after 1500 miles. So they are testing and rating new engines. Once broken in they all feel stronger to me.

You felt 100hp more? That's something like a 20% gain? Then your motor was delivered to you running on 6 cylinders and it must have magically turned on the other two...

But seriously, you shouldn't feel a thing or something is wrong.

Why would you think breaking in would result in better power? What do you think is going on inside your engine?

At the same time, I used to unplug all the power to my Powerstroke Ford diesel engine overnight which discharged the ECU. This would get the ECU to learn my type of driving all over again which would affect things like throttle response, but not more power. Nothing physically happens to our cars after break in to provide a noticeable increase in performance.

[pdawg]

Originally Posted by opasha

For those of you changing your settings, it would be helpful to others if you explained the changes in detail from throttle response in each mode (EcoPro, Comfort, Sport) from complete stop and also rolling speeds, RPMs leveling off or not (is power consistently increasing), and your mpg changes, etc. These are the things people can actually note and understand. Of course, driving the vehicle is the best way to know, but for contemplating going up or not, this knowledge is much more useful.

Great idea, though I think it should be noted on separate or appropriate RC threads for each engine type.

[JensM]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

You felt 100hp more? That's something like a 20% gain? Then your motor was delivered to you running on 6 cylinders and it must have magically turned on the other two...

But seriously, you shouldn't feel a thing or something is wrong.

Why would you think breaking in would result in better power? What do you think is going on inside your engine?

At the same time, I used to unplug all the power to my Powerstroke Ford diesel engine overnight which discharged the ECU. This would get the ECU to learn my type of driving all over again which would affect things like throttle response, but not more power. Nothing physically happens to our cars after break in to provide a noticeable increase in performance.

I have been driving diesel cars since 2004 - and all from new.
Brands have been Toyota (4) and since 2011 BMW (X3 F25 20D and X5 E7 30D).
I have actually on all felt the engine 'opening up' when cars passed around 10.000km. This on both the Toyotas and the BMW's. It feels like the car gains more HP - but not in the 20% level, but enough so you can feel it. I have been told that modern diesels are somehow coded to deliver less power until the engine has done some thousands (up to 10K) km, but not sure if it is a story or not.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by JensM

I have been driving diesel cars since 2004 - and all from new.
Brands have been Toyota (4) and since 2011 BMW (X3 F25 20D and X5 E7 30D).
I have actually on all felt the engine 'opening up' when cars passed around 10.000km. This on both the Toyotas and the BMW's. It feels like the car gains more HP - but not in the 20% level, but enough so you can feel it. I have been told that modern diesels are somehow coded to deliver less power until the engine has done some thousands (up to 10K) km, but not sure if it is a story or not.

My comment is not meant to be personal.

Why would a manufacturer possibly do that? In today's world of high horsepower car/SUV wars, what could possibly be the motivation to start low and add HP in 10k miles/km's? Mechanically speaking, nothing changes at 10k. Within 1k miles, the bearings and rings are settled, but that might give you 5 hp from reduced friction - maximum.

As for software, I assure you there is nothing that happens at some point in the future to give more HP. You could get your ECU flashed and a new/better tune could be installed, and that would make a difference.

Modern diesels are tuned to the max from day one. I have a 6.0L power stroke putting out close to 400hp and 750 lb ft of torque. That's huge and known to be tuned near 100% of it's potential from the factory. That's why so many fail - too many people push them over the limit with tunes and/or overheating. New 6.7L Powerstrokes are producing over 450 hp and over 850 lb ft of torque. In a pick up truck!

On the other hand, the US BMW diesel is de-tuned for our EPA emission laws and poor fuel quality. That's why I chipped it.

[JensM]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

My comment is not meant to be personal.

Why would a manufacturer possibly do that? In today's world of high horsepower car/SUV wars, what could possibly be the motivation to start low and add HP in 10k miles/km's? Mechanically speaking, nothing changes at 10k. Within 1k miles, the bearings and rings are settled, but that might give you 5 hp from reduced friction - maximum.

As for software, I assure you there is nothing that happens at some point in the future to give more HP. You could get your ECU flashed and a new/better tune could be installed, and that would make a difference.

Modern diesels are tuned to the max from day one. I have a 6.0L power stroke putting out close to 400hp and 750 lb ft of torque. That's huge and known to be tuned near 100% of it's potential from the factory. That's why so many fail - too many people push them over the limit with tunes and/or overheating. New 6.7L Powerstrokes are producing over 450 hp and over 850 lb ft of torque. In a pick up truck!

On the other hand, the US BMW diesel is de-tuned for our EPA emission laws and poor fuel quality. That's why I chipped it.

42Pilot
? Sorry, but can not read my comment as 'an attack to your reply'

I was simply telling about my own experience - and this is an experience you will find from many diesel drivers in Europe.
I was also saying it was not in the +20% range, but it was/is enough so you can feel it. At the same km mark, most people (my self included) also see an improvement in fuel consumption with up to 15-20% extra (how to explain this?). And finally which was notable on all the 4 bangers (not the 30D), the engine sounded more smooth and less noisy - we all know the BMW 4 cyl make more 'hard' diesel noise compared to the Audi etc.

Why is it like this? I don't know - but I have heard several people (among others engineers working at Land Rover and Peugeot) claiming that this is what is happening. But as said, I do not know if this is a story or not - but I do know my own experience.

About modern diesels already tuned to the max. I am sorry, but not sure you are aware of what is going on in the car industry at the moment including BMW.
Many of the engines today are identical but with different software ending in different power. Take for example the 4 cyl BMW: Same engine whether they mark is as 1.6 - 1.8 - 2.0 (two versions) and 2.5 (forget about the US noise with 2.8). All is the SAME 2.0 engine with different software (and the 2.5 with different turbo and cooling). And I bet you - we have not seen the last, using same 2.0 but with even higher output.
Take the new VW Passat, their current top of the range is a 2.0 diesel with 240HP (last version had 170). Skoda use same engine in their new Superb (not launched yet) - same engine have 280HP. I will also bet, that the BMW 50D (3 liter) with currently 381HP will be presented with even higher power from the factory in the future.
All car manufactures are now following this down-sizing trend - smaller engines but with higher (and higher output)

So, modern diesels today are NOT at their max.

[gatordent]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

I have been in E/3 for the last two days. Feels really good and strong and no cel yet.

How's it going on E3? any problems so far? have you tested the entire RPM range or just normal driving modes?

[Ray knight]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

You felt 100hp more? That's something like a 20% gain? Then your motor was delivered to you running on 6 cylinders and it must have magically turned on the other two...

But seriously, you shouldn't feel a thing or something is wrong.

Why would you think breaking in would result in better power? What do you think is going on inside your engine?

At the same time, I used to unplug all the power to my Powerstroke Ford diesel engine overnight which discharged the ECU. This would get the ECU to learn my type of driving all over again which would affect things like throttle response, but not more power. Nothing physically happens to our cars after break in to provide a noticeable increase in performance.

Maybe not 100hp but it felt like a HUGE change right at 1000 mile marker. Literally it felt like it switched to different maps. Day and night more aggressive response and pulled a LOT harder up top. Like it was running another 5-6psi all of a sudden. right exactly when it hit 1k. It was crazy on the M5. I feel the diesel has opened up quite a bit as well since around the 1500 mile mark. Much quicker than when it was new.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by JensM

42Pilot
? Sorry, but can not read my comment as 'an attack to your reply'

I was simply telling about my own experience - and this is an experience you will find from many diesel drivers in Europe.
I was also saying it was not in the +20% range, but it was/is enough so you can feel it. At the same km mark, most people (my self included) also see an improvement in fuel consumption with up to 15-20% extra (how to explain this?). And finally which was notable on all the 4 bangers (not the 30D), the engine sounded more smooth and less noisy - we all know the BMW 4 cyl make more 'hard' diesel noise compared to the Audi etc.

Why is it like this? I don't know - but I have heard several people (among others engineers working at Land Rover and Peugeot) claiming that this is what is happening. But as said, I do not know if this is a story or not - but I do know my own experience.

About modern diesels already tuned to the max. I am sorry, but not sure you are aware of what is going on in the car industry at the moment including BMW.
Many of the engines today are identical but with different software ending in different power. Take for example the 4 cyl BMW: Same engine whether they mark is as 1.6 - 1.8 - 2.0 (two versions) and 2.5 (forget about the US noise with 2.8). All is the SAME 2.0 engine with different software (and the 2.5 with different turbo and cooling). And I bet you - we have not seen the last, using same 2.0 but with even higher output.
Take the new VW Passat, their current top of the range is a 2.0 diesel with 240HP (last version had 170). Skoda use same engine in their new Superb (not launched yet) - same engine have 280HP. I will also bet, that the BMW 50D (3 liter) with currently 381HP will be presented with even higher power from the factory in the future.
All car manufactures are now following this down-sizing trend - smaller engines but with higher (and higher output)

So, modern diesels today are NOT at their max.

You caught me at not proof-reading my post for sure. I used the examples of US pickup trucks being tuned to the max (and they are, I own one but research it yourself), then turn around and state my F15 is detuned - doesn't make sense.

I'm quite aware of the various engine configurations, called platform manufacturing. My biggest customer uses this method to build agricultural equipment. But such differences in performance are not normally just software related. They almost always hang an extra turbo or two, larger injectors, different valve train , etc., then match the tune. The base engine is basically the same.

In any event, we'll agree it makes no sense (or is odd at the very least) why engines magically gain significant horsepower after breaking in. In the meantime, if you get any empirical proof, I would appreciate if you could share.

[wjbender]

Are there any discounts available for Racechip??

[pdawg]

go to DTMhaus and use code "racechip" (without the quotes)