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      08-14-2020, 11:34 AM   #1
corduroy
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xdrive40e 12-volt battery, hybrid engagement issues

Hey all,

Anyone with the hybrid replace their 12-volt battery and notice any issues before replacement?

My battery is a little over 4 years old and lately I've been getting a "System request: MAX eDRIVE not available" and the car will refuse to go into hybrid mode, just stay on gas. Only reason I've tried to force it into max edrive mode is that sometimes it'll stay on gas only and won't go into electric. This typically happens after a longer drive which makes me think that the 12-volt battery doesn't have enough of a charge to kick on the hybrid system (or however that works).

I tested the battery and it was >12.6v, aux battery was >12.9v. I haven't tested under load (best way to do it with the x5?). Just wondering if it means that the 12-volt battery is going bad and I should look into replacing it ... or if it's something else. Otherwise, I don't have any error messages, CEL, etc.
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      08-14-2020, 12:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
Hey all,

Anyone with the hybrid replace their 12-volt battery and notice any issues before replacement?

My battery is a little over 4 years old and lately I've been getting a "System request: MAX eDRIVE not available" and the car will refuse to go into hybrid mode, just stay on gas. Only reason I've tried to force it into max edrive mode is that sometimes it'll stay on gas only and won't go into electric. This typically happens after a longer drive which makes me think that the 12-volt battery doesn't have enough of a charge to kick on the hybrid system (or however that works).

I tested the battery and it was >12.6v, aux battery was >12.9v. I haven't tested under load (best way to do it with the x5?). Just wondering if it means that the 12-volt battery is going bad and I should look into replacing it ... or if it's something else. Otherwise, I don't have any error messages, CEL, etc.
I don't know that that message relates to the 12 volt battery. What kind of charge do you have in your high voltage battery when it appears? What are you doing when trying to change into max edrive? What's the outside temp?

I find sometimes, it will pop up especially when I'm driving and have the engine over a certain rpm, like say accelerating down my street initially, and once the rpm comes down I can switch. I've also seen it when its too hot or too cold, especially on initial start without any preconditioning.

gwes
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      08-14-2020, 02:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by gwes View Post
I don't know that that message relates to the 12 volt battery. What kind of charge do you have in your high voltage battery when it appears? What are you doing when trying to change into max edrive? What's the outside temp?

I find sometimes, it will pop up especially when I'm driving and have the engine over a certain rpm, like say accelerating down my street initially, and once the rpm comes down I can switch. I've also seen it when its too hot or too cold, especially on initial start without any preconditioning.

gwes
The hybrid battery will have anything from 80% down to 10% when it happens. Temperatures have been in the 80s lately. I didn't have any issues when it was in the 30s or 100s before. I'm only trying to force it into only electric when I notice it no longer goes into electric during a drive (from stop lights, low speeds, etc). It acts like I clicked to save the battery.

Sometimes it'll happen from a start, but I've mostly noticed it happening after driving it for a bit and then it goes into gas only mode.

Only reason I suspect the 12 volt battery is from what I've read elsewhere and the current age of the battery, but I haven't seen anything concrete yet. I think the hybrid systems need the 12 volt battery for some hybrid function to kick it on, not sure though.
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      08-14-2020, 02:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
The hybrid battery will have anything from 80% down to 10% when it happens. Temperatures have been in the 80s lately. I didn't have any issues when it was in the 30s or 100s before. I'm only trying to force it into only electric when I notice it no longer goes into electric during a drive (from stop lights, low speeds, etc). It acts like I clicked to save the battery.

Sometimes it'll happen from a start, but I've mostly noticed it happening after driving it for a bit and then it goes into gas only mode.

Only reason I suspect the 12 volt battery is from what I've read elsewhere and the current age of the battery, but I haven't seen anything concrete yet. I think the hybrid systems need the 12 volt battery for some hybrid function to kick it on, not sure though.
So I know on my car I actually had the aux battery charger fail and it was running with a dead aux battery for ages and it didn’t affect the hybrid function. The main battery may be a different story, but usually if the battery is getting worn in either case you’ll get a message in ISTA saying it needs to be replaced.

Do you get any messages at all in ISTA immediately after you experience this on a drive? I’ve seen a few times where it will list something, I’ve had that show up in cold temps - can’t remember the exact code but it will clear after the car goes to sleep, so you’d want to pull it after you go for a drive. Maybe give that a shot - it may give you a better idea of what’s going on.
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      08-14-2020, 03:23 PM   #5
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Thanks!

Downloading ISTA right now, I don't have an enet cable but I might see if my Techstream cable will work (probably not), lol. Otherwise I'll order one.

Nope, no messages of any sort.
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      08-14-2020, 03:29 PM   #6
gwes
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You can probably one-day one from Amazon if you needed to - I got mine form RGSport.
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      08-16-2020, 07:57 PM   #7
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Amazon has been pretty terrible lately for me, probably won't get here until Thursday or Friday. I'll update with what ISTA says when I can run it. I'll probably check fuses in the meantime. No traditional error messages over obd2.

I've noticed that it's been happening a lot more frequently lately. For some reason, going up hills or driving until the engine kicks in (hwy) seems to stop the hybrid system from working... I might go and get a load test done on the battery, if nothing from ista then I'll drop it off at the dealership.

Last edited by corduroy; 08-17-2020 at 05:12 PM..
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      08-17-2020, 05:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
Amazon has been pretty terrible lately for me, probably won't get here until Thursday or Friday. I'll update with what ISTA says when I can run it.

New wrinkle today though. I noticed on my drive that when I was driving over gentle hills (large rolling hills, regular road, ~40 mph), the hybrid system wouldn't engage anymore. On my way back, everything was fine. I drove over that area in the same direction again and wouldn't you know? It did it again. I've driven over it multiple times and the hybrid system stops each time. I'm going to check fuses tonight.

Edit: usually the hybrid system will work again after turning off for a few minutes. This time it started but about a minute "idling", the engine turned on and car refused to go hybrid again. Can't wait for the enet cable to arrive. No traditional error messages via the obd2.
Yeah it’s possible that if it actually is encountering a problem engaging the edrive you’ll have some codes in there - just make sure you pull it right after the drive. I don’t know if you’d see them using an obd2.
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      08-25-2020, 07:38 PM   #9
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Hah, still waiting for the enet cable, I don't think I'm renewing prime this year.

I went ahead and bought Bimmerlink and pulled some codes from that and have linked them at the bottom here. I'm becoming an expert at being able to trigger this issue now, lol. Pretty much as soon as the engine comes up to temperature, the car won't switch back to the electric motor. Seems there are a few errors, but I don't think it's related to the 12-volt battery anymore, just guesses on my part at this point though. Regardless, I'm dropping off the car in about a week and a half. I'll run ISTA whenever that cable comes in too.


Last edited by corduroy; 08-25-2020 at 08:00 PM..
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      08-25-2020, 08:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
Hah, still waiting for the enet cable, I don't think I'm renewing prime this year.

I went ahead and bought Bimmerlink and pulled some codes from that and have linked them at the bottom here. I'm becoming an expert at being able to trigger this issue now, lol. Pretty much as soon as the engine comes up to temperature, the car won't switch back to the electric motor. Seems there are a few errors, but I don't think it's related to the 12-volt battery anymore, just guesses on my part at this point though. Regardless, I'm dropping of the car in about a week and a half. I'll run ISTA whenever that cable comes in too.

It could be that battery sensor code 215001. Not sure what that actual code refers to but it may be the sensor on your 12v battery - that is referred to the intelligent battery sensor.

Also looks like you may have some other stuff going on too with your oil pressure and cylinder suppression? That could be linked to it as well, possibly keeping the ICE running as the output might be unreliable so it can't hand-off to the electric motor correctly?

The CAN codes may not be an issue - depends on when it happened or if they're still present, could have been something disconnected at some point (even during service) and isn't an issue anymore.

ISTA will be able to give you some more information on all of these, and tell you the last time it showed up - seems like Bimmerlink is just listing each time it appeared.
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      08-25-2020, 09:42 PM   #11
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Yeah, I'm reading about the IBS now. There's also some discussions I've found online about errors in reading the sensors for oil pressure and misfiring cylinders with a bad 12-volt. It might just need a new IBS. Hopefully the cable gets here soon. I'll also post what the dealership says in a couple weeks. Car runs fine otherwise.
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      08-27-2020, 06:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
Yeah, I'm reading about the IBS now. There's also some discussions I've found online about errors in reading the sensors for oil pressure and misfiring cylinders with a bad 12-volt. It might just need a new IBS. Hopefully the cable gets here soon. I'll also post what the dealership says in a couple weeks. Car runs fine otherwise.
I know that my IBS was replaced under warranty - but it only affected the AUX battery. Best to have them try and diagnose it, ISTA will give you a lot more insight into what’s going on though.
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      09-18-2020, 08:04 AM   #13
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Sorry for the delay! I got my car back yesterday. Hopefully this will help any other hybrid owners in the future.

I tried running ISTA but trying to read codes was greyed out every time I ran it. I tried reinstalling several times but no go.

It took a while, but the dealership replaced and coded the aux battery. From what I understood (and if they're correct), the aux battery switches the drive mode between the gas and electric motors in the transmission. I don't remember if I mentioned it, but the stop-start system also wasn't working at stop lights.

So anyways, it's working perfectly now. If it happens again after the warranty is up, I'll try that aux battery that might work in our X5s from that other thread here - that aux battery is so expensive for a non-hybrid battery, lol.

Thanks!
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      01-05-2021, 01:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroy View Post
Sorry for the delay! I got my car back yesterday. Hopefully this will help any other hybrid owners in the future.

I tried running ISTA but trying to read codes was greyed out every time I ran it. I tried reinstalling several times but no go.

It took a while, but the dealership replaced and coded the aux battery. From what I understood (and if they're correct), the aux battery switches the drive mode between the gas and electric motors in the transmission. I don't remember if I mentioned it, but the stop-start system also wasn't working at stop lights.

So anyways, it's working perfectly now. If it happens again after the warranty is up, I'll try that aux battery that might work in our X5s from that other thread here - that aux battery is so expensive for a non-hybrid battery, lol.

Thanks!
We ran into the same issue with our 2016 40e where the start/stop stopped working and it would not allow edrive and would just not switch over to electric for any driving when it was cold (30's). Took it in and the 5 year old auxiliary battery was not holding a charge. That battery is expensive and hard to find because of its size and capacity. They also charge 2.5 hours labor to diagnose, change out, register, and test drive.

This thread helped and I gave them this info when they took the car in.
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      04-17-2021, 09:16 AM   #15
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I'm in a similar situation with my 2016 40E MAX EDrive isn't available, start/stop functionality not working and steering feels very sloppy, loose which used to be firm that changes in different drive modes. Due to heavy cold 12V battery went total dead and jump started X5, replaced with OEM 12V battery at Indy mechanic shop and he just cleared all the faults without programming, he made sure to register the battery though. Since then X5 behavior has altered a lot.

ISTA+ don't have any errors all modules are in green, definitely sense something with back-end programming to establish that communication between 12V and HV. Taking it to dealership next week, hopefully they can fix it under Hybrid warranty and I'm out off factory/CPO warranty has third party extended warranty. Information on hybrids are hard to find online, Will keep posted if this can help other hybrid owners.
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      05-25-2021, 12:06 PM   #16
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Hi All,

I'm in a similar position to some of the previous posters. A few days ago, my 2016 X5 40E had notifications for Maximum Drive Train not available and Start/Stop Malfunction.

I drove it a couple of times to see if the warnings would go away, and it would either start in gas motor or electric motor, and then would not switch or engage the other.

I took it in and they said both batteries (main & aux) failed tests, so they are quoting $810 to replace both including reprogramming. I'm hoping that fixes everything and that's the extent of it.

The car only has 38K miles and is generally driven in Max eDrive. It has spent a good amount of time outdoors in TX as our garage is currently under repair so maybe that led to the batteries dying prematurely. I think my CPO and Maintenance Warranties expired last month. I assume I'll be on the hook for any repairs but let me know if anyone thinks these may be covered by something else (what is this Hybrid Warranty?).

Does $810 sound reasonable for replacing both batteries?
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      05-26-2021, 09:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mavsfan View Post
Hi All,

I'm in a similar position to some of the previous posters. A few days ago, my 2016 X5 40E had notifications for Maximum Drive Train not available and Start/Stop Malfunction.

I drove it a couple of times to see if the warnings would go away, and it would either start in gas motor or electric motor, and then would not switch or engage the other.

I took it in and they said both batteries (main & aux) failed tests, so they are quoting $810 to replace both including reprogramming. I'm hoping that fixes everything and that's the extent of it.

The car only has 38K miles and is generally driven in Max eDrive. It has spent a good amount of time outdoors in TX as our garage is currently under repair so maybe that led to the batteries dying prematurely. I think my CPO and Maintenance Warranties expired last month. I assume I'll be on the hook for any repairs but let me know if anyone thinks these may be covered by something else (what is this Hybrid Warranty?).

Does $810 sound reasonable for replacing both batteries?
Hey Mavsfan, my extended warranty didn't cover it and I didn't expect them to. The 12v battery is a maintenance item and I've never heard of any warranty covering those outside of the regular 12v battery warranty (where they pro-rate for 2-3 years). It's wear and tear like brakes, tires, wipers, etc. The Hybrid battery warranty covers the battery for driving the electric motors and doesn't cover the 12v batteries.

We're coming up on 5-6 years with these cars and that's about the typical life for 12v batteries.

Was $810 at the dealer? If you do it yourself; the main 12v is $150 (walmart) to $225 (interstate/costco), aux battery is ~$150, and then coding the batteries (ISTA or I think bimmercode can do both, or whatever a shop will charge you to code them).

Does the CPO maintenance warranty cover wear and tear items? If so, I would ask the dealer if they can still cover it since it was so close. A goodwill gesture but who knows?
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      05-26-2021, 11:30 PM   #18
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What's a good non oem brand for aux battery that folks can recommend?
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      05-27-2021, 12:52 AM   #19
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What's a good non oem brand for aux battery that folks can recommend?
Walmart Everstart are made by Johnson Controls who is the OE manufacturer for most batteries. There are 3 major battery manufacturers that make 99% of the batteries on the market. The rest are all white-label products from those brands.
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      05-27-2021, 06:15 AM   #20
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That's a discussion on the aux battery in another thread. The only non-oem so far that's been found, has been found is an AC Delco (Johnson Controls) on rock auto (https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/ac...M,battery,2476).
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      05-27-2021, 09:04 PM   #21
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Makes sense. With the same logic, there should be even fewer manufacturing factories that *actually* make them.
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      05-28-2021, 09:26 AM   #22
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I went ahead and had the shop do the work for $810, which included replacing and reprogramming both batteries and checking for other errors/issues.

They said putting in new batteries fixed the drivetrain gas/hybrid engagement issue. They also found a frayed sensor wire that was throwing a fault code and apparently fixed it for free.

I did it through a BMW mechanic that’s not a dealership. Dealership wanted $1200 for the batteries and probably would have charged heavily for the frayed wire as well.

Picking it up later today.
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